TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,458
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Post by TC on Mar 9, 2018 7:08:59 GMT -5
So after the Rayful Edmonds (sp?) situation in 1990 timeframe, JT Jr. Is now going to sign high school drop out dealers. I don’t buy it. If you equate Iverson situation with Francis’, that is ridiculous.,,,,and a tremendous insult to Iverson. I'm not equating the Iverson situation with Francis'. I think violent crimes are worse than non-violent drug offenses and I don't think Francis even had a record. I think Francis is an easier take than Iverson, and I'm not arguing "we shouldn't have taken Iverson". Not sure how that's a real controversial opinion other than Georgetown/Maryland homerism.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,035
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 9, 2018 7:11:57 GMT -5
I would take Iverson in a second and not Francis. I guess that is where we differ.
In your words, Iverson was railroaded. The charge was not legit. I wouldn’t want a crack seller anywhere near my school.
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Post by bornhoya on Mar 10, 2018 14:17:25 GMT -5
Nobody knew he was selling drugs till this came out, he wasn’t doing it to be a kingpin he was doing but after all that he changed his life to chase his dream and you still want to knock the guy.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 10, 2018 19:56:30 GMT -5
Boy time hasn't done him well. His picture looks a little rough. This is an understatement, Francis 41, has what looks like a black eye and looks to be going on 50...wow
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2018 12:21:45 GMT -5
Nobody knew he was selling drugs till this came out, he wasn’t doing it to be a kingpin he was doing but after all that he changed his life to chase his dream and you still want to knock the guy. This. I think some people would be shocked about some of things athletes go through coming up before they reach campus. Some of these guys, unfortunately, had to grow up too fast and didn't have the luxury just to be a kid. Francis wised up and left that stuff behind him.
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Mar 11, 2018 21:12:39 GMT -5
I would take Iverson in a second and not Francis. I guess that is where we differ. In your words, Iverson was railroaded. The charge was not legit. I wouldn’t want a crack seller anywhere near my school. I want to disagree strongly with the sentiments espoused here. Honestly, while I have no idea if JWP91 is simply ignorant of the reality that faced Steve Francis and countless others like him, or has conquered similar challenges and is dismissive of those who didn't, but. The act of selling drugs should not forever remove someone from the chance to do better. Or even (gasp) attend Georgetown. Franchise wrote a very honest and entertaining missive here. Chilling to consider how many who never had the chance, under similar circumstances, for their talents to shine through. Not just talking B-Ball, obviously.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,300
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Post by 95hoya on Mar 11, 2018 21:21:00 GMT -5
Francis has had some health issues. Please don't just assume he looks rough because he's on drugs.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,035
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 11, 2018 21:55:11 GMT -5
I would take Iverson in a second and not Francis. I guess that is where we differ. In your words, Iverson was railroaded. The charge was not legit. I wouldn’t want a crack seller anywhere near my school. I want to disagree strongly with the sentiments espoused here. Honestly, while I have no idea if JWP91 is simply ignorant of the reality that faced Steve Francis and countless others like him, or has conquered similar challenges and is dismissive of those who didn't, but. The act of selling drugs should not forever remove someone from the chance to do better. Or even (gasp) attend Georgetown. Franchise wrote a very honest and entertaining missive here. Chilling to consider how many who never had the chance, under similar circumstances, for their talents to shine through. Not just talking B-Ball, obviously. In the modern political environment, I am considered a far left liberal, but I am apparently not as liberal as some on this board. I am not sure what that would make you. I am aware of the difficult circumstances that some face. Kudos to Francis for not becoming a user and escaping his circumstance. Am I looking for choir boys? No. Can a recruit have a blemish? Yes, depending on what it is.. If a player is dealing hard core drugs as Francis was when he admitted he was selling crack cocaine and this is known by the coaches, then I think that is a hard pass....no matter how good the player. We don’t want that on or near our campus in any way shape or form. I would say the same for meth or heroin or fantynl (sp?). These stuff ruins lives and kills people. Bringing this on campus knowingly would be borderline complicit....before we even consider the potential liability to the university. Some kid ODs on crack bought from Francis when the coaches knew he was a dealer, and the parents would be suing for the entire endowment.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2018 22:13:30 GMT -5
He stopped selling drugs once he left for JUCO. He realized it was stupid. That was behind him by the time he was playing JUCO and then being recruited by schools.
JT2 had his reasons for backing off of Francis. Maybe it was true what he told Francis, or maybe he just told Francis that to nicely back away from recruiting him. Either way, he never became a Hoya.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Mar 11, 2018 22:29:43 GMT -5
These are really murky waters to wade in in the sense that you never want to write off an 18 year old if it can be helped. It's tough to look at Iverson in comparison to Francis with regard to what they did because Iverson got a pardon and Francis never got busted for anything. On the face of it, you want squeaky clean kids that won't ever be a problem. Heck, parents want that in their own kids. But you also have to look at the kids themselves. Who are they? What kind of character do they have? Will they realize an opportunity and try to make the most of it?
I don't know either guy personally so I can't make a judgment either way. I used to see AI on campus every Tuesday and Thursday on my way to an 8:50 and that was pretty much it outside of a couple of friends that played on the practice squad telling stories. I never saw or heard anything negative about Allen and, so, in retrospect it seems like a great thing for both AI and Georgetown. But he also had a pardon in his pocket and so that makes rationalizing things a bit easier too.
That's part of what I loved about Big John. I had the utmost respect for him as a man and had every confidence that he knew what he was doing with the guys in his charge and those that he took under his wing. I felt similarly, though a little less so with JT3 (that could just me being older and more cynical). I don't know if it's partly his physical stature or that I grew up watching him but I have similar confidence in Patrick as I had in JT2. I trust that Patrick is far better qualified and equipped than I am to pick quality guys to foster even if they have some questionable stuff in their respective histories. I'm not saying I'm cool with anyone and everyone. Only that I'll put a lot of weight in Patrick signing on to mentor a guy if he's had some issues before I sit behind my keyboard and pass my judgments from afar.
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