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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 9, 2018 9:48:46 GMT -5
The problem we've always had is decision making in critical situations. End of game especially. This hasn't changed.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 9, 2018 10:01:31 GMT -5
This is an embarassing thread and makes the fanbase look ridiculous. A program that has not made the second weekend of the NCAA tournament in over a decade expects a dramatic turnaround in 1 year? It is hard to even discuss this with civility. Ewing has not even been here a year, the roster he inherited was a disaster, GU was coming off back to back losing seasons - and we have people on here expecting him to land a 5 star recruit??? Unless you are paying 6 figures to the kid, that was not going to happen. What 5 star is going to walk in to this mess, without knowing the style of basketball Ewing would be playing or how the team would perform. What 5 star is walking in now? You understand those kids have choices - right? Like Duke, UNC, Arizona, Kansas - blue bloods that will be playing in March.
I think people need to realize that this is not the 1980's or even 90s; the game has passed us by. We need to work like hell to catch up and Ewing has teh dedication and work ethic to do it. THis is not going to be a 2 year turnaround, it will take time. How about we start with a build like Buzz Williams at Va Tech? He had a terrible 1st season, NIT second season and NCAA by the 3rd season. That should be the blueprint in terms of rebuild.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 9, 2018 10:31:11 GMT -5
This is an embarassing thread and makes the fanbase look ridiculous. A program that has not made the second weekend of the NCAA tournament in over a decade expects a dramatic turnaround in 1 year? It is hard to even discuss this with civility. Ewing has not even been here a year, the roster he inherited was a disaster, GU was coming off back to back losing seasons - and we have people on here expecting him to land a 5 star recruit??? Unless you are paying 6 figures to the kid, that was not going to happen. What 5 star is going to walk in to this mess, without knowing the style of basketball Ewing would be playing or how the team would perform. What 5 star is walking in now? You understand those kids have choices - right? Like Duke, UNC, Arizona, Kansas - blue bloods that will be playing in March. I think people need to realize that this is not the 1980's or even 90s; the game has passed us by. We need to work like hell to catch up and Ewing has teh dedication and work ethic to do it. THis is not going to be a 2 year turnaround, it will take time. How about we start with a build like Buzz Williams at Va Tech? He had a terrible 1st season, NIT second season and NCAA by the 3rd season. That should be the blueprint in terms of rebuild. Buzz or even Jay Wright. It was Jay Wright's 4th year when he made the NCAA's. Tony Bennett did it in his 3rd year. Plus, people don't realize the strength of the Big East conference and how many good coaches are in this league too. It will take time.
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Mar 9, 2018 19:57:58 GMT -5
I wonder how Ewing's detractors would have viewed Big John's first two years on the Hilltop. IIRC, his record was under .500 for those two seasons.
This year the Hoyas were undermanned, inexperienced, turnover prone and defensively challenged. Given those challenges, in my view, we did almost as well as anyone could expect. And I believe there is reason to be optimistic regarding the future. The glass is half full, y'all.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 10, 2018 19:12:07 GMT -5
Coming into this season I expected an over .500 record. Ewing and this team had several chances. During the 5 game losing streak, losing to Providence and Marquette which were the last 2 games blown when the game was 5pts or less with 4 mins to play ended keeping us from getting over .500 for the season. I will repeat my expectations again, this year a winning record, did not happen Final Grade C as Ewing avoided having a losing record Next season NIT birth anything less is a disappointment. 2019 Season NCAA's 2020 Season NCAA's and win games in the NCAA Tournament.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 21:34:37 GMT -5
Yes, there is evidence that he is a decent coach. There is also evidence that he has a lot to learn to become a better coach. Both things can be true.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 11, 2018 8:31:40 GMT -5
I personally had a lot of questions with the Ewing hire at the time. I also agree that he is still learning....half time adjustments may be an area that he needs more help in. Too many half time leads are squandered within minutes in the 2nd half. That being said, I love his passion, energy, sideline demeanor, style of play and player development. Both Marcus and Jessie made big jumps from one year to the next. But for the last game, Jamarko made great strides. I loved watching Dickerson’s progression through the year....and I thought he used the other freshman well. Sooner than later, ewing will win at Georgetown.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Mar 11, 2018 10:16:04 GMT -5
One way to assess Ewing's progress next years is if we start to win our fair share of close games. Of course, we also need better guards to make this happen.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 11, 2018 10:38:23 GMT -5
I look at a guy like Ed Cooley for a guidepost, because I think he is a great recruiter and has become a good game coach.
Cooley coached at Fairfield in the MAAC for 5 seasons. He never reached the NCAA'S, but the program slowly improved. He took over a struggling Providence program that was 4-14 and 15-17 the prior season; in his first season, they were - 4-14 and 15-17. They improved to 19-15 the next year, but no NIT. Since then, 4 straight NCAA'S, most likely a 5th this season. His in-game and end game coaching have improved significantly - I remember watching his Fairfield teams implode here in Albany against Siena multiple times.
Far, far, far too early to evaluate Patrick. A Cooley trajectory would be fantastic.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2018 11:58:55 GMT -5
I look at a guy like Ed Cooley for a guidepost, because I think he is a great recruiter and has become a good game coach. Cooley coached at Fairfield in the MAAC for 5 seasons. He never reached the NCAA'S, but the program slowly improved. He took over a struggling Providence program that was 4-14 and 15-17 the prior season; in his first season, they were - 4-14 and 15-17. They improved to 19-15 the next year, but no NIT. Since then, 4 straight NCAA'S, most likely a 5th this season. His in-game and end game coaching have improved significantly - I remember watching his Fairfield teams implode here in Albany against Siena multiple times. Far, far, far too early to evaluate Patrick. A Cooley trajectory would be fantastic. They question becomes are fans "cool" with a Cooley projection though? Are they patient enough? Cooley is a good coach, but he coaches at Providence. At best, a stepping stone type of school. He is doing wonders there. At Georgetown? I think the expectations are different.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 11, 2018 12:42:05 GMT -5
I look at a guy like Ed Cooley for a guidepost, because I think he is a great recruiter and has become a good game coach. Cooley coached at Fairfield in the MAAC for 5 seasons. He never reached the NCAA'S, but the program slowly improved. He took over a struggling Providence program that was 4-14 and 15-17 the prior season; in his first season, they were - 4-14 and 15-17. They improved to 19-15 the next year, but no NIT. Since then, 4 straight NCAA'S, most likely a 5th this season. His in-game and end game coaching have improved significantly - I remember watching his Fairfield teams implode here in Albany against Siena multiple times. Far, far, far too early to evaluate Patrick. A Cooley trajectory would be fantastic. They question becomes are fans "cool" with a Cooley projection though? Are they patient enough? Cooley is a good coach, but he coaches at Providence. At best, a stepping stone type of school. He is doing wonders there. At Georgetown? I think the expectations are different. I wasn't suggesting an 8-year journey to the NCAA's. The Fairfield references were more an example of how even guys who turn out to be very good coaches struggle with aspects of their job while they gain experience. However I was certainly suggesting that not making the NCAA's until the third season, then starting a run of at least 5 years, should be a good benchmark - although we would and should want greater tourney success than Provy has had.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Mar 11, 2018 12:47:16 GMT -5
A lot of coaches stayed away from Providence because if the fan base and the college’s investment in resources. Their fans wanted a return to BE glory. Really comparable to our situation here.
Most fans —and I speak of a group broader than the participants on this board or on Twitter— would be happy with the Cooley timeline.
Perhaps more importantly admin would be happy with that timeline as well. It goes much longer than that things will get interesting again no doubt.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 11, 2018 12:48:38 GMT -5
I look at a guy like Ed Cooley for a guidepost, because I think he is a great recruiter and has become a good game coach. Cooley coached at Fairfield in the MAAC for 5 seasons. He never reached the NCAA'S, but the program slowly improved. He took over a struggling Providence program that was 4-14 and 15-17 the prior season; in his first season, they were - 4-14 and 15-17. They improved to 19-15 the next year, but no NIT. Since then, 4 straight NCAA'S, most likely a 5th this season. His in-game and end game coaching have improved significantly - I remember watching his Fairfield teams implode here in Albany against Siena multiple times. Far, far, far too early to evaluate Patrick. A Cooley trajectory would be fantastic. They question becomes are fans "cool" with a Cooley projection though? Are they patient enough? Cooley is a good coach, but he coaches at Providence. At best, a stepping stone type of school. He is doing wonders there. At Georgetown? I think the expectations are different. Sign me up for a Cooley career for PE.. 5 straight years of 10-8 or better in the BE looks good to me even with the early exits in the ncaa's..
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2018 13:19:47 GMT -5
Early exits in the NCAA's? Wasn't that one of the main gripes with III? Even before two straight losing seasons.
Interesting.
At Providence it is great, given it is....well...Providence.
In the past, Wright and Nova were considered the standard that we should maintain/reach. Now it is Cooley and Providence?
Very interesting.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 11, 2018 13:52:54 GMT -5
Early exits in the NCAA's? Wasn't that one of the main gripes with III? Even before two straight losing seasons. Interesting. At Providence it is great, given it is....well...Providence. In the past, Wright and Nova were considered the standard that we should maintain/reach. Now it is Cooley and Providence? Very interesting. Your question was "whether fans would be cool with a Cooley projection?" Not whether folks wanted Gtown to be like PC.. The reality is that Gtown hasn't competed for the top half of the BE in 3 straight seasons so if PE could get Gtown to finish over 500 in the BE & get 5 straight ncaa appearances. I'd be all for it.. If you asked us if we'd take a Chris Mack career I'd take that too.. Let's be real here though a program can't compete with the very top of a conference if it can't get past the middle of it so yeah being like PC would be a nice step forward for Gtown.. It's pretty simple logic in my view..
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2018 14:36:28 GMT -5
Big picture-wise, the Cooley projection is PC. How much farther can he take Providence?
It is Providence.
Pitino, Guillen and Barnes all left for bigger jobs from Providence.
If Cooley wasn't a native, he might have left too. He has done a great job.
Are people cool with what Cooley is doing at Providence?
Would that be okay at Georgetown?
Short-term? Well, yeah given these last 3 years.
Long-term? Maybe not.
The ceiling is lower at Providence than it is at Georgetown, historically speaking.
Pat didn't come back build this program for first round exits.
What is the point of this entire thread?
Is Pat a decent coach? A lot of that is based on one's perception and the program the coach runs.
Cooley is more than a decent coach at Providence. With those same results At Kentucky or even Maryland? Not so much.
After III had early success, he was criticized for high seeds and early round exits.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 11, 2018 14:47:56 GMT -5
Big picture-wise, the Cooley projection is PC. How much farther can he take Providence? It is Providence. Pitino, Guillen and Barnes all left for bigger jobs from Providence. If Cooley wasn't a native, he might have left too. He has done a great job. Are people cool with what Cooley is doing at Providence? Would that be okay at Georgetown? Short-term? Well, yeah given these last 3 years. Long-term? Maybe not. The ceiling is lower at Providence than it is at Georgetown, historically speaking. Pat didn't come back build this program for first round exits. What is the point of this entire thread? Is Pat a decent coach? A lot of that is based on one's perception and the program the coach runs. Cooley is more than a decent coach at Providence. With those same results At Kentucky or even Maryland? Not so much. After III had early success, he was criticized for high seeds and early round exits. III lost his job because of back to back losing seasons (and diminished recruiting), not early tourney exits. Ask UVA fans about early exits. If we are getting high seeds & getting upset, most could live with that. We aren't even playing in the tourney though. What Cooley has done with Provy wouldn't be viewed in the same light (just making the tourney & losing as a low seed). Ewing did a great job in year one and most importantly his work ethic leads me to believe he will only get better with time. If MD & JG come back along with a sophomore jump from our 3 sophs and some improved guard play, I think we are tourney bound next year.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2018 15:03:40 GMT -5
Big picture-wise, the Cooley projection is PC. How much farther can he take Providence? After III had early success, he was criticized for high seeds and early round exits. III lost his job because of back to back losing seasons (and diminished recruiting), not early tourney exits. Ask UVA fans about early exits. If we are getting high seeds & getting upset, most could live with that. We aren't even playing in the tourney though. What Cooley has done with Provy wouldn't be viewed in the same light (just making the tourney & losing as a low seed). Ewing did a great job in year one and most importantly his work ethic leads me to believe he will only get better with time. If MD & JG come back along with a sophomore jump from our 3 sophs and some improved guard play, I think we are tourney bound next year. You could ask the same with Nova in recent years (aside from the NC run). Tourney bound next year? Interesting.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Mar 11, 2018 15:28:40 GMT -5
A bit of a click-bait topic heading--but here is the obvious simple response:
Yes.
There is a lot for this team to work on, but there were clear signs of the team coming together as the season progressed. Whatever your win/loss expectations were coming into the year, the final grade for the season really is an "Incomplete", as no new coach with a rebuilding job is expected to have a finished product in year one. Anyone who expected some instant turn around was either being totally unfair to Ewing, or delusional.
Next season, we'll begin to see with more confidence the longer term direction of the program. It will be Ewing's team from day one next year, with no significant departures (sorry Tre and Jon). If the progress appears to stall next season, there will be more cause for alarm. They still shouldn't be viewed as a finished product at any point next season, but I think its fair to expect a very competitive team next year, in the mix for a tournament bid most of the season.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 11, 2018 15:39:15 GMT -5
They talked on the telecast last night about how our press was a change of pace vs. an attempt to create turnovers. I think Rafferty shared that PE acknowledged he didn’t have the players to press for turnovers. I actually can't wait to see our press next season when we have mac, pickett, josh, md, and trey on the court....the length at all positions with Trey back to protect the rim...its sad that someone 2" shorter is a better rim protector...smh
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