bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Mar 8, 2018 9:40:03 GMT -5
Dickerson and Mulmore are getting a lot of deserved criticism for their play. But I do want to pause just briefly and thank them for being here. Both of these guys basically saw a sinking ship and got on board anyway to see if they could make it better. It was an opportunity for them, sure, but not many folks would want on the Titanic after it struck the iceberg. Dickerson also, surprisingly to me, did improve over the year. Last night's Dickerson was substantially better than the player who took the floor in November. By February, he was even having good games in which he could be a difference. At some level, even that should speak to what Ewing can do once he gets better players on board.
And for Dickerson and Mulmore, thanks!
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 8, 2018 9:43:54 GMT -5
There is one thing that I think we can all readily agree on re: this year’s team: Ewing’s team was much more fun to watch and plays an uptempo style that is critical to recruiting and playing success moving forward. I don’t disagree that he did a pretty good job with limited pieces, but I am very disappointed that with his name, our desperate needs and our new facility he hasn’t been able to lure an elite guard other than Mac into the fold. I have seen McClung twice this season, and I think he’s both very underrated and a potential college star. But we must have another option there. MUST. Neither Kaleb nor Jagan is an option as a legit second ball handler next season, which leaves you in one heck of a pickle with Mulmore and Dickerson leaving. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but we are currently looking at a likely downgrade in the ballhandling category next season. Let that sink in after watching the most TO-prone GU team in decades. Most current top 2018 recruits have been acquiring offers since 2016 or earlier, as high school sophomores. If Ewing whiffs on bringing in a top 2019 guard then maybe, but the only teams that can come in late and seal the deal for this types of players are blue blood programs currently at the top of their game, or programs caught up in the pay for play scandal. How else can Ewing get guys to come here? Improving the style of play was definitely a step in the right direction, but ultimately it’s up to the kid to make a choice. Ewing might be enough of a name to get guys to visit but it surely isn’t enough to garner commitments from top gaurd prospects based on name alone, and it’s delusional to think otherwise. Most of us have a connection to Georgetown so we’re biased in how great we think it is.
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the_way
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The Illest
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Post by the_way on Mar 8, 2018 9:52:03 GMT -5
Development of players
Marcus Govan Blair Pickett Dickerson
Recruiting:
Picket Blair Sodom (was a project, but so was Hibbert. Would have loved to see what Ewing could do with him.)
In-game coaching:
He kept us competitive for a majority of games, outside of the expected blowouts. Had a couple of upset victories too.
Losses:
Some were expected. Some we lost after having leads. That speaks to the lack of depth (quality and quantity).
Offensive scheme:
Sound. Very sound. We seem to get the open looks we need. Even without guys that can effectively facilitate and/or create their own shot. Just need talented shooters and playmakers.
Defensive scheme:
TBD.
Defense needs work. To play defense you need the athletes, but you also need depth. We have neither. Jury is still out regarding his strategy on the defensive end.
So, yes their is evidence Ewing is a decent coach. Some say Mullin outcoached him last night, but what about the 2 previous games against the Johnnies? Where was the praise for Pat outcoaching Mullin in those games? Something Coach K couldn't do this year against St. John's.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 8, 2018 10:06:59 GMT -5
There is one thing that I think we can all readily agree on re: this year’s team: Ewing’s team was much more fun to watch and plays an uptempo style that is critical to recruiting and playing success moving forward. I don’t disagree that he did a pretty good job with limited pieces, but I am very disappointed that with his name, our desperate needs and our new facility he hasn’t been able to lure an elite guard other than Mac into the fold. I have seen McClung twice this season, and I think he’s both very underrated and a potential college star. But we must have another option there. MUST. Neither Kaleb nor Jagan is an option as a legit second ball handler next season, which leaves you in one heck of a pickle with Mulmore and Dickerson leaving. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but we are currently looking at a likely downgrade in the ballhandling category next season. Let that sink in after watching the most TO-prone GU team in decades. Is this really true? The number one team in the country plays as deliberate as anyone on the offensive end, the best team in the BE won't remind anyone of Paul Westhead led teams either.. I'm actually a fan of more structured offenses, so I'm admittedly biased. But I think all of the objective evidence suggests that kids, in general, want to play for programs that consistently win. For sure, among that group of programs, they ultimately pick the one that has the coaches with whom they relate, and the coaches that can help them meet their goals (playing time, getting to the NBA, etc.) But the number one thing is to consistently be a winner. Period. Regardless of style of play. I mean, it can't be more obvious with III's teams. We get to a S16 and a FF and who are our frosh the next two seasons? Wright, Freeman, Monroe, Sims, Clark. That should have provided a base for sustained success. And, well, it did. But we flamed out in the tournament despite the sustained success, thus eroding the good will we ought to have enjoyed.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Mar 8, 2018 10:09:37 GMT -5
If Ewing is getting ripped by fans now, I think it is going to get very ugly next year. Maybe we'll be better - but with the roster we currently have going into next season, I don't see us being remotely competitive for the NCAAs. As long as Govan and Derrickson are our best players, our D will be bad. Derrickson can sometimes be a decent defender, but struggles handling guys who can attack off the dribble, and offers almost no rim protection. Govan is just a bad defender because he has no lateral quickness or explosion, I don't think he can do anything about that.
Some guys may improve, but we still don't have anything approaching a PG unless McClung can instantly translate stardom against low level HS competition into competent big east play - instantly! I think that next year will look an awful lot like this year, unless Ewing can come up with a real point guard between now and November.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 8, 2018 10:09:40 GMT -5
I am a little worried about some of the in-game coaching, and also worried that he may be under-valuing the need for a ball handler. Other than that, I have been rather pleasantly surprised, as I was not particularly thrilled with the hire.
The negativity is largely from the same posters who have been negative about everything over the years, no matter what has been going on. Gotta be pretty tough always seeing the dark side of things...
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Mar 8, 2018 10:50:05 GMT -5
At least PE was a good enough coach to realize the rest of this week is better off spent recruiting!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 10:53:14 GMT -5
There should be a 48hr waiting period for trollish threads like this....
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 8, 2018 10:53:34 GMT -5
Guess it depends upon expectations. For those who read his playing resume and expected it to immediately transfer into a quality college coach, there is reason for disappointment. For those who saw a 15 year NBA assistant and assumed that meant he would immediately grasp all facets of the college game there could be disappointment. You can clearly pick apart Ewing's performance this year and find plenty to bit** about, but that is true of most coaches. Check out any fan board after a loss and you will find no shortage of expert critiques about why the team lost and how the coach screwed up. Ewing inherited a flawed roster, with no one outside of the two bigs who could consistently hit a shot--from any range. He had no depth at any position, relied upon 2 freshmen for major scoring contributions, and had to play several guards/wings with poor handles. It was not his team at the outset and yet he made them competitive, while demonstrating a completely unexpected commitment to recruiting throughout a frustrating season. He proved he can develop players--not everyone but several and it is not always the coach's fault if a player does not turn into a star. He deserves more time to see if he can take the next step with a roster filled with more players suited to the game he wants to play. This. They just didn't have the horses. And anyone who thinks that he's on the typical 3-4 year cycle to prove himself does not understand how things work at Georgetown.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 8, 2018 10:59:59 GMT -5
This season went about exactly as I expected it to. We didn't overachieve, nor did we really underachieve. We lost to a team in the tourney that we had beaten twice in close contests. Expecting to beat a very evenly matched opponent three times in a row isn't all that realistic.
I loved our offense. LOVED it, especially after what we had to watch the past few seasons.
Our defense was nonexistent, and the coaching at the end of games (from 10 minute mark on down) was extremely suspect. Those two things have to be hugely improved if this experiment is going to work.
He gets a B for the year from me. It will be interesting to watch next season if all the pieces are back - we should be a contender to make the NCAA tourney in that case.
But remember what Patrick inherited. The program was falling apart. Getting back to .500 in year one was no small feat. On to next season...
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playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by playtyler on Mar 8, 2018 11:04:06 GMT -5
I agree with the poster above who said styles don't help with recruiting, winning does. JT III was still recruiting pretty well until the end (Copeland, Peak, White, Mosely, Govan, Darrickson, Waters all could have been on this team). He even was able to recruit great guards into his system at the end (Peak, Pryor, Waters). So I don't quite understand those who say that was a problem.
Our defense was unbelievably bad. Somehow our defense was better last year with Pryor who could not move laterally and Peak. The in-game coaching was horrific. You can all name 3-5 games we should have won, starting with Syracuse.
The recruiting has been OK, but it is very difficult for it to be better given the circumstances of the program. The only major thing he could have done is convince Tremont to stay instead of going to that 17-win LSU team. I know he worked hard for Tremont. Otherwise, I am not sure what you can say negatively about recruiting. I have heard rumblings from people who know things that he is not doing enough in the DC-area basketball scene (AAU, high school, etc.) to get to know the people who matter and re-establish that Georgetown is the goto place for the city's best. I hope he really works hard locally.
I think we will be better next year. But, I hope Pat gets in some classroom time looking at what happened this year in the second half of games. The coaching/strategy was a horror show. One big issue, though, that does not get mentioned enough is that our bigs get tired in the second half. Since they are our highest percentage options, when they are tired, we then have to settle with the Freshmen, and then our even less exciting options down the stretch. We need to find a way to preserve Govan and Darrickson's legs for the end of games and they need to work on their conditioning. There is a lot of work for everyone to do this summer.
I would say that this season was pretty much our worst case scenario for the season. We ended the season the worst team in the Big East (Depaul and St. Johns beat us to end the season). We had almost no quality wins in our 15 wins and repeated horrible how-did-that-happen second half collapse losses. Effectively, against good teams (not DePaul or St. Johns), we were 2-13 for the season. I am more than a little concerned we are looking at Esh 2.0. Decent/good talent losing in unimaginable ways over and over.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Mar 8, 2018 11:18:38 GMT -5
I’ll give this ridiculous question a real answer. The growth of Marcus Derrickson and Jessie Govan are two very clear pieces of evidence. How about the fact that his system made this team a pretty decent offensive team despite almost no talent in the backcourt? It’s already a clear upgrade over JTIII’s offense. I will concede to you that the defense was disappointing. Add to Derrickson and Govan freshman Pickett. Pickett improved a ton during the season and has a bright future. Pickett was a Ewing recruit when there wasn't much out there and very late in the recruiting cycle. Pickett had decommitted from Mississippi and was looking at Maryland, but gave Ewing a listen. Pickett was really rough with his adjustment to college ball, but in January things clicked and he was a really good player the remainder of the season with glimmers of a really bright future. The last two games of the season Antwan Walker showed he could actually play and get minutes and showed what role he can fill. This was a nice surprise, but Patrick has be working with him openly (barking at him when he comes out) and it seems to be paying off. Dickerson and Blair showed stretches where they were okay and solid contributors. I figured Dickerson was just going to eat minutes, which is what he did for about 2/3rds of the season, but he started running point decently enough to have a positive impact in some games in February. Blair was frustrating at times playing out of control and not really thinking in a panic mode type of play with the ball in his hands. One of the things that was interesting was tv coverage in the huddle with Patrick. So many times he would give instructions that were just utterly ignored. This is really common as unless things are practiced a lot players will go back to what is common for them to do when under pressure or in the game. Patrick also talked a lot in postgame sessions about what his plays were and what he was telling the guys in the huddle. Most of these the Hoyas played in a vastly different system and were recruited to play in that type of system, which means it a lot of work to get players to adjust. Next year with some more of Patrick's recruits (recruiting at NCAA tournament level team caliber often is a 2 to 3 year process and Patrick is still less than a year in). Recruiting players that fit a system and roles in it helps, but so does having solid understanding of players returning and adapting to the system a little more. Over the season a lot of the pitfalls the team had were corrected, but other areas where they were lacking would become more apparent, but often those would go away. Holding leads was a continual issue, but where and how leads would change differed over the season. The last few weeks the holding leads became a problem in the last 2 minutes, which is really annoying. Patrick was saying the right things, but I don't know if it is confidence or just needing to loose a lead late, but get it back and win it against a top team is what it will set that confidence. Defense is one of the areas that still needs some sorting out. The press defense Georgetown was running the last few weeks of the season started working, with very few glaring breakdowns. It was like watching Hoyas of the 80s and 90s with the in your face defense end to end. At college level it is rare to see that press defense work for long stretches and often it works when there is a deep bench to get players some rest. I was rather surprised how well the press worked as it often triggered Georgetown coming back and getting or extending a lead. Where Patrick needs to spend time sorting things out is the pick-and-pop coverage defense. That killed Georgetown repeatedly and everybody we played the last two months ran pick-and-pop heavily. Part of it was the lack of switching through communicating or just having what happens in a pick set. The help defense also often exposed weakside plays for easy scores as the helper was too deep and couldn't make it out to cover outside in time. Part of this weakside defense seems to be helping Govan inside when Derrickson is out covering (he was usually covering the top wing) or Derrickson was out as Govan has serious defensive issues (When Derrickson is the only "big" in he covers the middle rather well and the help defense isn't used as much if at all). Zone would help the pick-and-pop issue and I'm not sure why Patrick rarely uses it. Hopefully this will get sorted in the off season as Patrick and the players improve.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Mar 8, 2018 11:21:55 GMT -5
Is this really true? The number one team in the country plays as deliberate as anyone on the offensive end, the best team in the BE won't remind anyone of Paul Westhead led teams either.. I'm actually a fan of more structured offenses, so I'm admittedly biased. But I think all of the objective evidence suggests that kids, in general, want to play for programs that consistently win. For sure, among that group of programs, they ultimately pick the one that has the coaches with whom they relate, and the coaches that can help them meet their goals (playing time, getting to the NBA, etc.) But the number one thing is to consistently be a winner. Period. Regardless of style of play. I mean, it can't be more obvious with III's teams. We get to a S16 and a FF and who are our frosh the next two seasons? Wright, Freeman, Monroe, Sims, Clark. That should have provided a base for sustained success. And, well, it did. But we flamed out in the tournament despite the sustained success, thus eroding the good will we ought to have enjoyed. Yes because the staff recruited players with great talent on the offensive side of the ball without doing much on the D end.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 8, 2018 11:24:19 GMT -5
If Ewing is getting ripped by fans now, I think it is going to get very ugly next year. Maybe we'll be better - but with the roster we currently have going into next season, I don't see us being remotely competitive for the NCAAs. As long as Govan and Derrickson are our best players, our D will be bad. Derrickson can sometimes be a decent defender, but struggles handling guys who can attack off the dribble, and offers almost no rim protection. Govan is just a bad defender because he has no lateral quickness or explosion, I don't think he can do anything about that. Some guys may improve, but we still don't have anything approaching a PG unless McClung can instantly translate stardom against low level HS competition into competent big east play - instantly! I think that next year will look an awful lot like this year, unless Ewing can come up with a real point guard between now and November. Remember McClung played point guard on the #1 AAU team in the land and played it well. I wouldn't think because he played against low level high schoolers this would change. We're talking about skill level and fundementals. If you're a floor general that's what you are. McClung is a real point guard, but again and again the Hoyas will need another true point guard.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 8, 2018 11:25:47 GMT -5
At least PE was a good enough coach to realize the rest of this week is better off spent recruiting!! They should be spread out all over the country and the DMV. Starting this morning.
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thedragon
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Enter your message here...
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Post by thedragon on Mar 8, 2018 11:32:02 GMT -5
Gigafan99 posted this in another thread and I think it responds to Hoyboya's question perfectly:
..."We were 15-18, 5-13 and the day Pat was hired had lost in the previous few months;
Pryor,Hayes,Cameron: Graduation Agau, Copeland: Transfer Campbell: injury Waters: Decommitted Peak: NBA
We had signed;
Walker
Really could have been way worse which admittedly is hard to believe but we managed to pick up some nice recruits and tread water at least in a tough conference. Brutal, but reasons for optimism."
We lost our top 2 scorers from a under .500 team last season and added virtually nothing in terms of recruits until 2 late Ewing pickups. That we matched our Big east record alone is a testament to Ewing. I can't even begin to disect how anyone could have possibly believed that this team would be better than last years. I was skeptical of the Ewing hire from Day 1, but anyone who is questioning his ability to coach after this season is living in a fantasy world I only wish to be able to visit.
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playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 244
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Post by playtyler on Mar 8, 2018 11:34:51 GMT -5
Sleepy, you are wrong. JT III's defenses were really good. Sometimes in the top 10, even adjusted for pace. Just in the last few years he recruited defensive minded players, Whittington, Porter, Hopkins, Trawick, Sims, K. Johnson, Moses, Agau (hard to argue that Monroe, Darrickson, Govan, Peak, Copeland, Hayes were only offensive players).
I will grant you DSR, Cameron, Pryor, Josh Smith, White and I am sure I am forgetting someone.
Point is that your statement is factually wrong. JTIII recruited good/great defenders/athletes and his defenses were good.
Please know that I wanted JTIII fired. Not a JT III defender. Just can't take the false statement that "staff recruited players with great talent on the offensive side of the ball without doing much on the D End." There is almost no evidence to back that up.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,376
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 8, 2018 11:46:28 GMT -5
Our KenPom offensive efficiency ranking improved from 102nd to 89th. The defensive numbers dropped from 58th to 124th, the worst since the rankings started in 2002. kenpom.com/index.php?y=2016
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boxout05
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 571
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Post by boxout05 on Mar 8, 2018 12:07:54 GMT -5
Our end game scenarios were analogous to a baseball team with a crappy bullpen. No matter what Pat tried it didn't work because he didn't have anyone that could be trusted to close a game out. If Mulmore and Dickerson are your best ball handlers and passers... a lot of your decisions aren't going to look good.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,419
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Post by the_way on Mar 8, 2018 12:20:55 GMT -5
Sleepy, you are wrong. JT III's defenses were really good. Sometimes in the top 10, even adjusted for pace. Just in the last few years he recruited defensive minded players, Whittington, Porter, Hopkins, Trawick, Sims, K. Johnson, Moses, Agau (hard to argue that Monroe, Darrickson, Govan, Peak, Copeland, Hayes were only offensive players). I will grant you DSR, Cameron, Pryor, Josh Smith, White and I am sure I am forgetting someone. Point is that your statement is factually wrong. JTIII recruited good/great defenders/athletes and his defenses were good. Please know that I wanted JTIII fired. Not a JT III defender. Just can't take the false statement that "staff recruited players with great talent on the offensive side of the ball without doing much on the D End." There is almost no evidence to back that up. III did not recruit great athletes for the most part. Especially on the perimeter. That is why we kept getting bounced early in the NCAA tournament, we couldn't keep up with guards. Quick-footed teams always gave III teams' problems. III rarely recruited above-the-rim or quick/explosive players. That is why Rodney Pryor's dunks stood out so much last year. It was a breath of fresh air. III usually recruited pudgy/stocky type guards or long/wing players for the most part. Above the rim and swift, change of direction of type players were rare under III.
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