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Post by hoyafan2014 on Jan 17, 2018 22:26:23 GMT -5
I don’t post much, so forgive my random thoughts. Lots of pent up Hoya energy.
To me, I wonder how much 30 seconds have changed the future of the Hoyas. Last year, was to be our redemption year. The confidence was ready to sore as we had Maryland in the bag. Then we somehow blew it in the last 30 seconds. Our confidence went out the window. Think about....If we win that game, we probably beat Arkansas St. Does Copeland still transfer? How is the team’s confidence the rest of the season? We probably make the NIT. Does JTIII still get fired? To me, the last two years were one ingredient away from being a good team....a good point guard or an Isaac Copeland living up to his potential. Does an NIT almost NCAA team bring on the Fire Thompson chants that helped the pot to where are today? We will never know. I tend to believe that the actions of the fan base affecting the morale of the team, soured Waters, and led us to where we are today. Am I upset?
I am not upset. As much as I believe that if we hold on and beat Maryland in those 30 seconds, we still were never going to have a point guard or a great Copeland. I was a big fan of JTIII staying and I felt that our fan base was overreacting. After really thinking about, I will agree that the Princeton offense stigma did not help recruiting. We knew what we were getting when we hired him. It appeared that he knew that changes were needed, but he was not able too make them fast enough. Combine the fact that he was recruiting with crap facilities and a tough academic curriculum, it is no wonder we could not get McDonalds All Americans lately.
In the end, I wonder what happens if this team had Waters on it. We all do. I may not agree with how the fan base reacted last year. In the end, I welcome the change. As much as I did not want too, I am glad that we peeled the band aid off.
I think that Ewing will do a good job. I like the up tempo offense and I am optimistic that he will do a good job recruiting. He has the facilities. He is the right guy to convince the All Americans that the tougher curriculum should not be an issue. 10 months ago, I was not fine trading JTIII and Waters for Ewing. Now I am. This team will struggle. Geesh, Peak, Copeland, White, and Campbell all gone. We will rebuild. When you hit rock bottom, there is one way to go. 30 seconds may have changed the future of this program. I am hoping for the better.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 17, 2018 23:40:30 GMT -5
Whether we won the game or not, it would have prolonged the inevitable. We still would struggle in the Big East. Look how Maryland got destroyed by Xavier last year in the tournament. And Maryland had a great year.
III was lost the past 2 years. Our program was not stable, on the court.
He was no longer running his beloved Princeton offense. An offense he played in and coached in his entire collegiate life. Defensively, we couldn't figure out how to not foul nor defend with the new rules.
Recruits that could help us weren't coming, and players that could help us were transferring.
He did his best,and we had some good times with him.
But his time ran its course.
Waters was not a savior. He looked to be a first step in the right direction, in theory. By then, it was too late.
Ewing is here, and now we have to give him time to build this program from scratch. It is going to take at least 2-3 recruiting classes to be competitive with teams in our conference,unless we get a few one and dones.
Things that are vital just as a starter kit in college basketball: deft ballhandling and accurate 3 pt shooting...we completely lack.
We need some rugged interior guys too. Also, some players that can play above the rim. After Pryor left,so did the dunks.
And we need guys that can defend and get after it.
Ewing has his work cut out for him.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 18, 2018 1:03:20 GMT -5
Copeland is still not great and even if we got great players, we still be running the Princeton offense and having our bigs run the offense from 25 feet out. It was just all wrong.
That said, I think we are an LJ Peak away from being a tourney team.
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beenaround
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Posts: 1,473
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Post by beenaround on Jan 18, 2018 1:14:28 GMT -5
Copeland is still not great and even if we got great players, we still be running the Princeton offense and having our bigs run the offense from 25 feet out. It was just all wrong. That said, I think we are an LJ Peak away from being a tourney team. Wow. B&G, I normally tend to agree with you. I think we're an LBJ away from being a tourney team.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jan 18, 2018 3:56:10 GMT -5
Copeland is still not great and even if we got great players, we still be running the Princeton offense and having our bigs run the offense from 25 feet out. It was just all wrong. That said, I think we are an LJ Peak away from being a tourney team. Maybe the CBI.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 18, 2018 8:54:22 GMT -5
Copeland is still not great and even if we got great players, we still be running the Princeton offense and having our bigs run the offense from 25 feet out. It was just all wrong. That said, I think we are an LJ Peak away from being a tourney team. Wow. B&G, I normally tend to agree with you. I think we're an LBJ away from being a tourney team. I may be off as we’d still have a considerable hole at PG...but I think Peak would have changed the dynamic considerably. Like Govan and Derrickson, Peak would thrive in the new offense and from day 1. Moreover, he’d be our best scorer and defender. Suddenly you have Govan and Derrickson as your 2nd and 3rd options. Adding a 1st team all conference kid would go a long, long way and imho put us right there with the Marquettes and Butlers of the world.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 18, 2018 9:36:17 GMT -5
Wow. B&G, I normally tend to agree with you. I think we're an LBJ away from being a tourney team. I may be off as we’d still have a considerable hole at PG...but I think Peak would have changed the dynamic considerably. Like Govan and Derrickson, Peak would thrive in the new offense and from day 1. Moreover, he’d be our best scorer and defender. Suddenly you have Govan and Derrickson as your 2nd and 3rd options. Adding a 1st team all conference kid would go a long, long way and imho put us right there with the Marquettes and Butlers of the world. B&G I'll take it one hypothetical step further and say we are a LJ and Tremont away from being Top 10....most of the board doesn't understand how changing priority affects the success of a team....all of a sudden Kaleb,Jiggy,Juggy,Marko become 3-4 option. That means that they aren't being defended by Desi,Mikal,or Kyhri. LJ would be there assignments and they would probably get equally as inexperienced players....That would mean better shots for everyone....
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playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by playtyler on Jan 18, 2018 9:57:39 GMT -5
I think we are an LJ Peak, Copeland, White, Waters away from being a top 10 team. Of course that would be replacing 3/5 of our starting lineup (with White as 6th man). Most teams are 3 or 4 players away from being a top team. So that is not saying much, other than we had all of these players. We had Peak (and Pryor, Hayes, Agau) last year and were not a tournament team. You can blame that on the offense or coaching, but I am not sure if Peak was a program changing player. I think he was much like Jabril Trawick. A solid Big East starting player on a good team. Waters on the other hand ...
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 18, 2018 10:13:10 GMT -5
I don't get why LJ doesn't get the love on this board that he deserves....LJ would be bya far amount the best player on this team.That would mean wins against Cuse, Butler, SH, and maybe Quette. I also believe that it would mean we don't get blown by Creighton or Nova. LJ isn't a pg but he can create off the dribble for himself and others better than anyone on our current roster. Plus like I said it changes defensive priority for the opposition....I love Brilly more than most but to compare the two is a disservice to LJ....imo
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 10:21:29 GMT -5
Imagine if we had Sidney Wicks on this team. Man, we'd be... a tiny bit better. How about Jeff Fryer?? Just think about it!
What if we had only beaten Randolph-Macon in January 1972?? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Can we not do any of this?
(p.s. - we actually did lose to Randolph-Macon. Wowza.)
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 18, 2018 12:09:34 GMT -5
I don’t post much, so forgive my random thoughts. Lots of pent up Hoya energy. To me, I wonder how much 30 seconds have changed the future of the Hoyas. Last year, was to be our redemption year. The confidence was ready to sore as we had Maryland in the bag. Then we somehow blew it in the last 30 seconds. Our confidence went out the window. Think about....If we win that game, we probably beat Arkansas St. Does Copeland still transfer? How is the team’s confidence the rest of the season? We probably make the NIT. Does JTIII still get fired? To me, the last two years were one ingredient away from being a good team....a good point guard or an Isaac Copeland living up to his potential. Does an NIT almost NCAA team bring on the Fire Thompson chants that helped the pot to where are today? We will never know. I tend to believe that the actions of the fan base affecting the morale of the team, soured Waters, and led us to where we are today. Am I upset? I am not upset. As much as I believe that if we hold on and beat Maryland in those 30 seconds, we still were never going to have a point guard or a great Copeland. I was a big fan of JTIII staying and I felt that our fan base was overreacting. After really thinking about, I will agree that the Princeton offense stigma did not help recruiting. We knew what we were getting when we hired him. It appeared that he knew that changes were needed, but he was not able too make them fast enough. Combine the fact that he was recruiting with crap facilities and a tough academic curriculum, it is no wonder we could not get McDonalds All Americans lately. In the end, I wonder what happens if this team had Waters on it. We all do. I may not agree with how the fan base reacted last year. In the end, I welcome the change. As much as I did not want too, I am glad that we peeled the band aid off. I think that Ewing will do a good job. I like the up tempo offense and I am optimistic that he will do a good job recruiting. He has the facilities. He is the right guy to convince the All Americans that the tougher curriculum should not be an issue. 10 months ago, I was not fine trading JTIII and Waters for Ewing. Now I am. This team will struggle. Geesh, Peak, Copeland, White, and Campbell all gone. We will rebuild. When you hit rock bottom, there is one way to go. 30 seconds may have changed the future of this program. I am hoping for the better. I don't think it matters. Even if they had best Maryland they I still would have imploded. Something happened back around nov 17, 2016 that causes senior leader Reggie Cameron to quit the team and miss the Maui trip. I believe there was a cancer and negative attitude on the team and locker room which doomed that team and season. Akoy had mentioned something about people who didn't want to work hard or listen to coach.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,373
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jan 18, 2018 12:25:41 GMT -5
I don’t post much, so forgive my random thoughts. Lots of pent up Hoya energy. To me, I wonder how much 30 seconds have changed the future of the Hoyas. Last year, was to be our redemption year. The confidence was ready to sore as we had Maryland in the bag. Then we somehow blew it in the last 30 seconds. Our confidence went out the window. Think about....If we win that game, we probably beat Arkansas St. Does Copeland still transfer? How is the team’s confidence the rest of the season? We probably make the NIT. Does JTIII still get fired? To me, the last two years were one ingredient away from being a good team....a good point guard or an Isaac Copeland living up to his potential. Does an NIT almost NCAA team bring on the Fire Thompson chants that helped the pot to where are today? We will never know. I tend to believe that the actions of the fan base affecting the morale of the team, soured Waters, and led us to where we are today. Am I upset? I am not upset. As much as I believe that if we hold on and beat Maryland in those 30 seconds, we still were never going to have a point guard or a great Copeland. I was a big fan of JTIII staying and I felt that our fan base was overreacting. After really thinking about, I will agree that the Princeton offense stigma did not help recruiting. We knew what we were getting when we hired him. It appeared that he knew that changes were needed, but he was not able too make them fast enough. Combine the fact that he was recruiting with crap facilities and a tough academic curriculum, it is no wonder we could not get McDonalds All Americans lately. In the end, I wonder what happens if this team had Waters on it. We all do. I may not agree with how the fan base reacted last year. In the end, I welcome the change. As much as I did not want too, I am glad that we peeled the band aid off. I think that Ewing will do a good job. I like the up tempo offense and I am optimistic that he will do a good job recruiting. He has the facilities. He is the right guy to convince the All Americans that the tougher curriculum should not be an issue. 10 months ago, I was not fine trading JTIII and Waters for Ewing. Now I am. This team will struggle. Geesh, Peak, Copeland, White, and Campbell all gone. We will rebuild. When you hit rock bottom, there is one way to go. 30 seconds may have changed the future of this program. I am hoping for the better. I don't think it matters. Even if they had best Maryland they I still would have imploded. Something happened back around nov 17, 2016 that causes senior leader Reggie Cameron to quit the team and miss the Maui trip. I believe there was a cancer and negative attitude on the team and locker room which doomed that team and season. Akoy had mentioned something about people who didn't want to work hard or listen to coach. Wheel of Fortune I'd like to buy 2 vowels, O and E My consonants are Y, D, N, R and P _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,764
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 18, 2018 12:35:03 GMT -5
Copeland is still not great and even if we got great players, we still be running the Princeton offense and having our bigs run the offense from 25 feet out. It was just all wrong. That said, I think we are an LJ Peak away from being a tourney team. Wow. B&G, I normally tend to agree with you. I think we're an LBJ away from being a tourney team. How would Lyndon Baines Johnson help our point guard deficiencies?
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 18, 2018 13:38:35 GMT -5
I don’t post much, so forgive my random thoughts. Lots of pent up Hoya energy. To me, I wonder how much 30 seconds have changed the future of the Hoyas. Last year, was to be our redemption year. The confidence was ready to sore as we had Maryland in the bag. Then we somehow blew it in the last 30 seconds. Our confidence went out the window. Think about....If we win that game, we probably beat Arkansas St. Does Copeland still transfer? How is the team’s confidence the rest of the season? We probably make the NIT. Does JTIII still get fired? To me, the last two years were one ingredient away from being a good team....a good point guard or an Isaac Copeland living up to his potential. Does an NIT almost NCAA team bring on the Fire Thompson chants that helped the pot to where are today? We will never know. I tend to believe that the actions of the fan base affecting the morale of the team, soured Waters, and led us to where we are today. Am I upset? I am not upset. As much as I believe that if we hold on and beat Maryland in those 30 seconds, we still were never going to have a point guard or a great Copeland. I was a big fan of JTIII staying and I felt that our fan base was overreacting. After really thinking about, I will agree that the Princeton offense stigma did not help recruiting. We knew what we were getting when we hired him. It appeared that he knew that changes were needed, but he was not able too make them fast enough. Combine the fact that he was recruiting with crap facilities and a tough academic curriculum, it is no wonder we could not get McDonalds All Americans lately. In the end, I wonder what happens if this team had Waters on it. We all do. I may not agree with how the fan base reacted last year. In the end, I welcome the change. As much as I did not want too, I am glad that we peeled the band aid off. I think that Ewing will do a good job. I like the up tempo offense and I am optimistic that he will do a good job recruiting. He has the facilities. He is the right guy to convince the All Americans that the tougher curriculum should not be an issue. 10 months ago, I was not fine trading JTIII and Waters for Ewing. Now I am. This team will struggle. Geesh, Peak, Copeland, White, and Campbell all gone. We will rebuild. When you hit rock bottom, there is one way to go. 30 seconds may have changed the future of this program. I am hoping for the better. I don't mean to keep bringing this up, but Daquan Bracey was the answer for last season. Trust me I know the whole story about this, but I will not say anything. I knew when we didn't get him what could happen for the rest of the season and it happened. It was very very unfortunate. I am still hurt and will always be that we didn't get Bracey. I knew what he could do. Tony Skinn an interview for an ass't coaching position this season ended up with Bracey and it worked wonders for LA Tech. All freshman team, lead the conference in assists and much more. Bracey told his coach at LA Tech to let him play through his mistakes and man did he do a hell of a job. The kid hardly turned the ball over www.latechsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030717aac.htmlYour first paragraph is accurate. Oh, I'm upset. I think our fan base if they know they knew the solution (a true point guard/floor general) and realized how potent and critical it is in having one they would've gave JTIII a chance due to him recruiting a true point guard/floor general in Waters. We would've had Bracey in those last 30 seconds. Believe me he's a true leader/floor general. I wouldn't say the "Georgetown offense" not Princeton hurt us for recruiting purposes. Not having a floor general hurt us in the recruiting process for the simple reason if we would've gotten Bracey this would've made it more easier in recruiting the next point guard. As the announcers mentioned last night it's about floor generals being able to learn any system and take over. Look at Brunson for Villanova. Trae Young at OU. If Waters was on this team he be doing what he's doing now for LSU. Leading. Making his teammates. Hitting game winning shots. No fear. Skill. Looking in the post first and playing inside/outside basketball. If our fan base just could've waited one more. They knew Waters was coming but didn't know about point guard play and how one control the tempo of a game. How a point guard is an extension of the coach on the court etc. I knew the repercussions that would come from some of our fans impatience. We are paying for this now. IMO...tell me if I'm wrong. Great point guards can run in any system. For instance in our system one has to know when to run the offense and when to push the ball. DSR when he wanted to be scorer instead of play the point he scored. When he strictly played the point guard role he didn't have to score all the much. The Gtown offense was a beauty to behold. When we won no one said a word, but as soon as well lost it was like, "ahhh get rid of this system." People had to blame someone and it was JT3. We hope we rebuild and we or if we do we know what to do with who we recruit. Georgetown Offense, not Princeton pilotonline.com/sports/college/article_8589ebb3-cc82-5528-bcb5-012d78e6379f.html
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 18, 2018 13:51:07 GMT -5
Whether we won the game or not, it would have prolonged the inevitable. We still would struggle in the Big East. Look how Maryland got destroyed by Xavier last year in the tournament. And Maryland had a great year. III was lost the past 2 years. Our program was not stable, on the court. He was no longer running his beloved Princeton offense. An offense he played in and coached in his entire collegiate life. Defensively, we couldn't figure out how to not foul nor defend with the new rules. Recruits that could help us weren't coming, and players that could help us were transferring. He did his best,and we had some good times with him. But his time ran its course. Waters was not a savior. He looked to be a first step in the right direction, in theory. By then, it was too late. Ewing is here, and now we have to give him time to build this program from scratch. It is going to take at least 2-3 recruiting classes to be competitive with teams in our conference,unless we get a few one and dones. Things that are vital just as a starter kit in college basketball: deft ballhandling and accurate 3 pt shooting...we completely lack. We need some rugged interior guys too. Also, some players that can play above the rim. After Pryor left,so did the dunks. And we need guys that can defend and get after it. Ewing has his work cut out for him. Any true point guard is a savior for their team/s for those who really know the game of basketball. Brunson for instance is a savior for his team simply because he controls the tempo of a game, gets his teammates involved and makes them better. Were you not watching the game last night? If you've evver noticed great teams that advance in tournaments have great point guard play. Right? I've posted almost one hundred please read to comprehend just how potent and critical a point guard is to his/her teams. www.coachesclipboard.net/PointGuard.html Waters could do both shoot the 3 and is a great ball handler and defend! Again, it was called the Gtown offense, not Princeton >>> pilotonline.com/sports/college/article_8589ebb3-cc82-5528-bcb5-012d78e6379f.html "It's a great offense," forward Jeff Green said. "With the group of guys we have, it's much better because we have guys who are athletic who can play multiple positions." And anyways Bracey was the savior for last season but... Yes, I agree that Coach Ewing has his work cut out for him.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 18, 2018 13:58:11 GMT -5
Copeland is still not great and even if we got great players, we still be running the Princeton offense and having our bigs run the offense from 25 feet out. It was just all wrong. That said, I think we are an LJ Peak away from being a tourney team. Georgetown offense, not Princeton and Copeland is having a pretty good year over at Nebraska pilotonline.com/sports/college/article_8589ebb3-cc82-5528-bcb5-012d78e6379f.html This is why you needed a point guard to run this offense, a true one that is that controls and leads and tells the bigs to down to receive the entry pass.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 18, 2018 14:02:03 GMT -5
Wow. B&G, I normally tend to agree with you. I think we're an LBJ away from being a tourney team. I may be off as we’d still have a considerable hole at PG...but I think Peak would have changed the dynamic considerably. Like Govan and Derrickson, Peak would thrive in the new offense and from day 1. Moreover, he’d be our best scorer and defender. Suddenly you have Govan and Derrickson as your 2nd and 3rd options. Adding a 1st team all conference kid would go a long, long way and imho put us right there with the Marquettes and Butlers of the world. L. J. yes, on the "wing" not point guard position would thrive like crazy playing for Coach Ewing. I watched a lot of his high school games and he was a thrill to watch. I will never forget!
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 18, 2018 14:02:16 GMT -5
Whether we won the game or not, it would have prolonged the inevitable. We still would struggle in the Big East. Look how Maryland got destroyed by Xavier last year in the tournament. And Maryland had a great year. III was lost the past 2 years. Our program was not stable, on the court. He was no longer running his beloved Princeton offense. An offense he played in and coached in his entire collegiate life. Defensively, we couldn't figure out how to not foul nor defend with the new rules. Recruits that could help us weren't coming, and players that could help us were transferring. He did his best,and we had some good times with him. But his time ran its course. Waters was not a savior. He looked to be a first step in the right direction, in theory. By then, it was too late. Ewing is here, and now we have to give him time to build this program from scratch. It is going to take at least 2-3 recruiting classes to be competitive with teams in our conference,unless we get a few one and dones. Things that are vital just as a starter kit in college basketball: deft ballhandling and accurate 3 pt shooting...we completely lack. We need some rugged interior guys too. Also, some players that can play above the rim. After Pryor left,so did the dunks. And we need guys that can defend and get after it. Ewing has his work cut out for him. Any true point guard is a savior for their team/s for those who really know the game of basketball. Brunson for instance is a savior for his team simply because he controls the tempo of a game, gets his teammates involved and makes them better. Were you not watching the game last night? If you've evver noticed great teams that advance in tournaments have great point guard play. Right? I've posted almost one hundred please read to comprehend just how potent and critical a point guard is to his/her teams. www.coachesclipboard.net/PointGuard.html Waters could do both shoot the 3 and is a great ball handler and defend! Again, it was called the Gtown offense, not Princeton >>> pilotonline.com/sports/college/article_8589ebb3-cc82-5528-bcb5-012d78e6379f.html "It's a great offense," forward Jeff Green said. "With the group of guys we have, it's much better because we have guys who are athletic who can play multiple positions." And anyways Bracey was the savior for last season but... Yes, I agree that Coach Ewing has his work cut out for him. I watched the game last night and Im not sure how you could say it was about Brunson. He is good for sure, but it was certainly not the case that we got throttled because of the PG play of Brunson. More to the point, you are not really doing anything to address the_way's argument other than to say over and over again how we need a PG. I agree with what he said. The time was right for the move, and it was always the case that Ewing would need a few years. Nothing has moved me from the position.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 18, 2018 14:06:01 GMT -5
I don't get why LJ doesn't get the love on this board that he deserves....LJ would be bya far amount the best player on this team.That would mean wins against Cuse, Butler, SH, and maybe Quette. I also believe that it would mean we don't get blown by Creighton or Nova. LJ isn't a pg but he can create off the dribble for himself and others better than anyone on our current roster. Plus like I said it changes defensive priority for the opposition....I love Brilly more than most but to compare the two is a disservice to LJ....imo SAY IT AGAIN! YOU RIGHT!
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 18, 2018 14:08:44 GMT -5
LJ will remain a favorite of mine- but why, oh why, did he go for that steal???
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