jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,006
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Post by jwp91 on Jan 10, 2018 7:42:07 GMT -5
And if they wouldn't have called the questionable illegal screen he would've been 2-4, your point? He had 1 drawn up for him. He needs many man more. You want our big men shooting 10-15 threes a game between them? Um, no. As another poster pointed out, I believe Jessie was 0-10 in the conference before the one he hit. He can hit the shot in the right situation, but making that one of the main foci of our offense? Last year, Govan had the highest 3 point shooting percentage on the team around 46% IIRC. If I had 2 bigs shooting 46%, hell yes would I want them shooting 10-15 threes a game if the open shot was there.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2018 7:42:34 GMT -5
Heart attack Hoyas...whew....good win. that was a fun game and I knew we'd win it no matter what it took. #calmandcool
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2018 7:45:44 GMT -5
If you need to teach basic fundamentals at this level your about 3 years too late I completely disagree, basic fundamentals should be taught/stressed on the college level.. NBA pro's still work on the fundamentals of the game. sleepy go back to sleep! Fundamentals are part of the game. Sleep probably thinks it's a childish word or something. Clueless. lol
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2018 7:47:06 GMT -5
General thoughts on a game we should have won but I'm pretty sure St. John's just lost it. We didn't actually do much to win. - For all those wondering why MD took so many 3s last year and didn't play inside, this game is for you. Against anyone with effective interior D, MD does not have the lift to be effective inside. He tries, but he's going to get blocked and stripped constantly, and while he's big, he's not Mike Sweetney. He helped as he could by hitting his FTs and outside shots and kudos for him and Pat for putting him in a position to contribute .. mostly as spacing and shooting threes.
- However, he drives me freaking nuts in that he apparently cannot sense a double team until 5-10 seconds after four hands are already in his face. No one on the team came, but Marcus is a special level of incompetence here. The double comes. Marcus waits. He dribbles two or three times into the double team. He waits. Pivots. Recognizes the double team and looks for a teammate. Identifies wrong one and would turn it over on a steal but it's a shot clock violation.
- Thank god for Jessie Govan's jumper.
- I do not get the assault on Mosely. Six turnovers is nothing for a Hoya PG, and despite that, he was our third most efficient player. We obviously don't want six turnovers from our PG, but I did like his added aggression, his improved outside shot and his big plays down the stretch. He's not the long term answer at PG but he's our best guard.
- I think Pat had a strong half time talk. I saw a lot of bad effort late in the first half. Dogging it on D, getting out rebounded, lazy cuts, etc. It looked like the team was punting, but they came back and fought in the second half. Oh, they are unskilled as all heck, but they did fight even if it wasn't always the right move.
- I know Pat wants to have freedom for his guards, but Mulmore and Dickerson need to stop the drives to nowhere. As much as Mosely's turnovers and Blair's quick trigger bothered me, the Mulmore special of a layup attempt that never had a chance at all is so much worse.
- There were times when the team devolved into utter crap, but then there were some really nice offensive sequences. We didn't score, mostly, but at times we ran an offense. And at times we just ran.
- There were a ton of good under the basket plays and we probably scored 8-10 points off those.
[/font][/b]. Who cares? [li]SJU is a good defensive team, but I'd rather play a strong defensive team that can't score than vice versa. We have no chance of stopping an offensively talented team and eventually we will shoot ourselves in the foot. [/li] [/ul][/quote] Who cares about this ish. The Hoyas fought hard and didn't give and then won DELETED - NO PROFANITY. Who cares?
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 10, 2018 7:48:30 GMT -5
Wow, our guard play is atrocious. Shooting, dribbling, passing, finishing and defending- all poor. The less bad team was going to win. Turnover city again. Thank heaven for Jessie's three. Just about all our ills could be corrected by skilled guard play.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2018 8:05:00 GMT -5
You want our big men shooting 10-15 threes a game between them? Um, no. As another poster pointed out, I believe Jessie was 0-10 in the conference before the one he hit. He can hit the shot in the right situation, but making that one of the main foci of our offense? Last year, Govan had the highest 3 point shooting percentage on the team around 46% IIRC. If I had 2 bigs shooting 46%, hell yes would I want them shooting 10-15 threes a game if the open shot was there. Jessie shot 38% from 3, Marcus 35%. Pretty darn good, especially for bigs. But Jessie has been more effective from 8-12 feet this year. That is where he should take most of his shots, with the occasional 3 in the flow of the offense.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 10, 2018 8:06:16 GMT -5
I know that Ewing is trying to implement his more uptempo system, but last night proved again that he needs to slow it down a little at least when there is no obvious break and the opponent is getting back. Easy to trash Mulmore and Dickerson for the wild bull rushes into the lane with little to no hope of finishing, but the fact remains they are the two best ball-handlers (it's all relative) on a team that is very, very weak in that department. So you can sit them in crunch time to avoid the wild out of control drives, but the price you pay is watching Mosley, Blair, Pickett or Kaleb struggle against any kind of pressure. Additionally, Mosley is also a turnover machine at times with attempts to make the highlight pass, or the careless or lazy pass. Kaleb has proven just as careless at times. Blair is a freshman whose ball-handling remains a work-in-progress and Pickett's ball skills are just as weak.
My preference would be to reign in the guards, not to a crawl, but rather after getting it into the front-court avoiding the tunnel-vision that results in impossible shots or charging calls or turnovers. I believe that Mosley more than any other player needs to be on the floor in crunch time, if nothing more than the effort he puts out at all times. I prefer Mulmore over Dickerson as the other guard against the press and then it sort of depends upon who the opponent is as to whether you go with the shorter gunner in Blair or the taller gunner in Pickett or the defensive player in Kaleb.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 10, 2018 8:47:51 GMT -5
Ragged game, but I do give some credit to St John’s defense. They are quick and contest passes and shots consistently. For the most part I am satisfied with our effort tonight, clearly all of our flaws were on display but we kept fighting. I thought the minutes were distributed right tonight with Mosely eating into Pickett’s minutes. I kept thinking tonight that we are a couple of competent guards from being a good team. Mulmore, Dickerson and Pickett were so bad that just replacing them with average ball handlers would be huge. I was also daydreaming if LJ had decided to stick around for his Sr year how different this team would be. LJ would be averaging 25 points a game on this team and would flourish in this system. Trick is for us to find another LJ to join the squad next year. Too bad that Kaleb has gone cold. Keep shooting Kaleb. I’m a Jagan fan. He was huge down the stretch, though his ballhandling isn’t good enough to be the primary ballhandler. Hoya Saxa. Too bad Seton Hall got smacked tonight by Marquette; they will be fired up on Saturday. Oh well, we’ll be big underdogs. Seton Hall is going to be another tough conference game and the Hoyas will be big underdogs, but I think this is a game the Hoyas should be able to be competitive. The Hoyas are going to really struggle this year with teams (Creighton, Nova, Xavier) that play at a really hectic pace and speed the game up on them because of thier issues with ball handling and turnovers. Seton Hall is a better team than the Hoyas are now but they play at a slower pace, don't shoot as many threes and do not usually play a lot of pressure defense so they likely won't cause as many turnovers. Not sure how Georgetown will slow down Delgado and Desi but this game should not be a blow out. If they get a few breaks and finally start shooting the ball better they could very well be in this one right to the end.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 10, 2018 8:53:19 GMT -5
General thoughts on a game we should have won but I'm pretty sure St. John's just lost it. We didn't actually do much to win. - For all those wondering why MD took so many 3s last year and didn't play inside, this game is for you. Against anyone with effective interior D, MD does not have the lift to be effective inside. He tries, but he's going to get blocked and stripped constantly, and while he's big, he's not Mike Sweetney. He helped as he could by hitting his FTs and outside shots and kudos for him and Pat for putting him in a position to contribute .. mostly as spacing and shooting threes.
- However, he drives me freaking nuts in that he apparently cannot sense a double team until 5-10 seconds after four hands are already in his face. No one on the team came, but Marcus is a special level of incompetence here. The double comes. Marcus waits. He dribbles two or three times into the double team. He waits. Pivots. Recognizes the double team and looks for a teammate. Identifies wrong one and would turn it over on a steal but it's a shot clock violation.
- Thank god for Jessie Govan's jumper.
- I do not get the assault on Mosely. Six turnovers is nothing for a Hoya PG, and despite that, he was our third most efficient player. We obviously don't want six turnovers from our PG, but I did like his added aggression, his improved outside shot and his big plays down the stretch. He's not the long term answer at PG but he's our best guard.
- I think Pat had a strong half time talk. I saw a lot of bad effort late in the first half. Dogging it on D, getting out rebounded, lazy cuts, etc. It looked like the team was punting, but they came back and fought in the second half. Oh, they are unskilled as all heck, but they did fight even if it wasn't always the right move.
- I know Pat wants to have freedom for his guards, but Mulmore and Dickerson need to stop the drives to nowhere. As much as Mosely's turnovers and Blair's quick trigger bothered me, the Mulmore special of a layup attempt that never had a chance at all is so much worse.
- There were times when the team devolved into utter crap, but then there were some really nice offensive sequences. We didn't score, mostly, but at times we ran an offense. And at times we just ran.
- There were a ton of good under the basket plays and we probably scored 8-10 points off those.
[/font][/b]. Who cares? [li]SJU is a good defensive team, but I'd rather play a strong defensive team that can't score than vice versa. We have no chance of stopping an offensively talented team and eventually we will shoot ourselves in the foot. [/li] [/ul][/quote]Who cares about this ish. The Hoyas fought hard and didn't give and then won DELETED - NO PROFANITY. Who cares? [/quote] Are you still drinking? Road wins are great. I will always agree with that, but what's with absolutist, "we can't criticize the team" stuff? Our 2 BE wins are clearly against the 2 teams worse than us. Let's see how the next couple of weeks play out.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 10, 2018 8:54:20 GMT -5
Huge win last night! Tough play down the stretch to pull it out. Build on this one. Nice bounce back from Saturday.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2018 9:21:43 GMT -5
No matter what we have in life or don't have these Hoyas showed us "adults" we can never give up! Seems like young people teach lessons of life through something they love...basketball! #basketballiflife
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 10, 2018 9:28:24 GMT -5
Ragged game, but I do give some credit to St John’s defense. They are quick and contest passes and shots consistently. For the most part I am satisfied with our effort tonight, clearly all of our flaws were on display but we kept fighting. I thought the minutes were distributed right tonight with Mosely eating into Pickett’s minutes. I kept thinking tonight that we are a couple of competent guards from being a good team. Mulmore, Dickerson and Pickett were so bad that just replacing them with average ball handlers would be huge. I was also daydreaming if LJ had decided to stick around for his Sr year how different this team would be. LJ would be averaging 25 points a game on this team and would flourish in this system. Trick is for us to find another LJ to join the squad next year. Too bad that Kaleb has gone cold. Keep shooting Kaleb. I’m a Jagan fan. He was huge down the stretch, though his ballhandling isn’t good enough to be the primary ballhandler. Hoya Saxa. Too bad Seton Hall got smacked tonight by Marquette; they will be fired up on Saturday. Oh well, we’ll be big underdogs. Seton Hall is going to be another tough conference game and the Hoyas will be big underdogs, but I think this is a game the Hoyas should be able to be competitive. The Hoyas are going to really struggle this year with teams (Creighton, Nova, Xavier) that play at a really hectic pace and speed the game up on them because of thier issues with ball handling and turnovers. Seton Hall is a better team than the Hoyas are now but they play at a slower pace, don't shoot as many threes and do not usually play a lot of pressure defense so they likely won't cause as many turnovers. Not sure how Georgetown will slow down Delgado and Desi but this game should not be a blow out. If they get a few breaks and finally start shooting the ball better they could very well be in this one right to the end. Yeah, Seton Hall was clobbered by Marquette last night. Im still not sure anyone other than Xavier and Nova are elite in this conference. Butler had a great night against Nova, but they've played pretty poorly since. Creighton beat up on us, but typically, away from home, they dont play that well, either. Again, that is what makes it frustrating to me. I dont think we are particularly good, but we still should be able to hold on our own in many games in this conference. Hopefully, it's confidence building that we've already won 2 road games.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 9:41:50 GMT -5
How narratives are built. Of course this year they're without their second best player in Lovett for all of those games. With Lovett they probably pick up a couple wins and the other season was Mullin's first when their best player was Federico Mussini.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jan 10, 2018 10:10:01 GMT -5
How narratives are built. Of course this year they're without their second best player in Lovett for all of those games. With Lovett they probably pick up a couple wins and the other season was Mullin's first when their best player was Federico Mussini. Our RPI improved 31 spots with that win. It's finally back under 200 (174).
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 10, 2018 10:13:55 GMT -5
How narratives are built. Of course this year they're without their second best player in Lovett for all of those games. With Lovett they probably pick up a couple wins and the other season was Mullin's first when their best player was Federico Mussini. Our RPI improved 31 spots with that win. It's finally back under 200 (174). At what point are we allowed to call the Mullin experiment a failure?
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 10, 2018 10:14:24 GMT -5
How narratives are built. Of course this year they're without their second best player in Lovett for all of those games. With Lovett they probably pick up a couple wins and the other season was Mullin's first when their best player was Federico Mussini. Our RPI improved 31 spots with that win. It's finally back under 200 (174). I was, and am still, as much of a skeptic as anyone that this team could do any reasonable damage this year. That being said, according to RPI Wizard, if you reversed the outcomes of the Cuse game (up 13 with 10 min to go) and Butler (up 20 in the 2nd half), this team would be sitting at 14-2 (3-2) with an RPI of 88. How many of us would have signed up for that right now? That's the distance between being in striking distance of the bubble conversation and having no prayer of making the NIT.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 10, 2018 10:18:48 GMT -5
How narratives are built. Of course this year they're without their second best player in Lovett for all of those games. With Lovett they probably pick up a couple wins and the other season was Mullin's first when their best player was Federico Mussini. Our RPI improved 31 spots with that win. It's finally back under 200 (174). The situation at St John's needs to improve and fairly quickly or it might implode on Coach Mullin. I know he is missing Lovett now and that is a huge loss for them, but they were expected to show some real improvement this year with some of the transfers that had become eligible this year. They have two really tough games coming next and starting 0-7 in conference is not what anyone expected. I have not watched them enough to put my finger on what the problem is with that team, but something seems to be missing. It is a situation the Hoyas need to pay attention to and realize the program needs to keep moving in the right direction every year if you are going to improve your recruiting results. Not sure how many recruits who are considering St John's now are too impressed with this start
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TrueHoyaBlue
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Jan 10, 2018 10:24:19 GMT -5
Our RPI improved 31 spots with that win. It's finally back under 200 (174). I was, and am still, as much of a skeptic as anyone that this team could do any reasonable damage this year. That being said, according to RPI Wizard, if you reversed the outcomes of the Cuse game (up 13 with 10 min to go) and Butler (up 20 in the 2nd half), this team would be sitting at 14-2 (3-2) with an RPI of 88. How many of us would have signed up for that right now? That's the distance between being in striking distance of the bubble conversation and having no prayer of making the NIT. I'm fairly certain we'll be in the NIT conversation if we finish above .500. While it's far from a sure thing, 6-12 in conference would put us at 16-13 going into the BET. 17 wins probably gets us into the NIT. If not, we should definitely accept a bid to one of those other tournaments, to continue to build toward next year.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 10, 2018 10:31:11 GMT -5
I was, and am still, as much of a skeptic as anyone that this team could do any reasonable damage this year. That being said, according to RPI Wizard, if you reversed the outcomes of the Cuse game (up 13 with 10 min to go) and Butler (up 20 in the 2nd half), this team would be sitting at 14-2 (3-2) with an RPI of 88. How many of us would have signed up for that right now? That's the distance between being in striking distance of the bubble conversation and having no prayer of making the NIT. I'm fairly certain we'll be in the NIT conversation if we finish above .500. While it's far from a sure thing, 6-12 in conference would put us at 16-13 going into the BET. 17 wins probably gets us into the NIT. If not, we should definitely accept a bid to one of those other tournaments, to continue to build toward next year. Yeah, not sure why we would be in the category of no prayer of the NIT. Truthfully, we have plenty of oppts left to get good wins. Not saying it will happen, but almost every BE team outside of STJ and DeP is a good win. It sucked to lose to Butler and Cuse the way we did, but beating Marq and Providence at home would likely be as good.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 10, 2018 10:33:36 GMT -5
Those were two pretty darned bad teams playing last night. I think I now unfortunately know what some of the St. John's / DePaul games were like over the past decade.
Defensively, I thought our attention to the screens was pretty good, but our rotational awareness was pretty poor. That is, we usually dealt with the initial screen by helping as needed, but often got flummoxed when we had to help the helper. St. John's missed a lot of open threes. Sometimes the difference between a blowout loss (last game) and a close win (this one) is whether your opponent makes them. I think we're best when we either blitz the screen orreally aggressively show before recovering to our man. A hedge or a switch just doesn't work with JG and MD out there.
Offensively, we continue to try to feed the post, which I think is really the only consistent option we have. We seem to be instructing MD and JG to invite the double-team and then make the proper pass. I say "seem" because there were several times that they both held the ball in the post an even longer period of time than normal, waiting for it to come. But they don't seem to be improving at making the proper pass out of the double. Neither is a good passer. And, perhaps relatedly, the other guys just seem to be spotting around the perimeter waiting for a pass rather than cutting or moving. I'd rather we moved (except maybe for Blair and Pickett, who are our best spot-up options)/ And all things considered, I'd rather MD and JG tried to attack quickly when they're one-on-one, since that's our best chance to score.
Just as with the past few years with III, when we run screen-rolls with our guards, our guards very infrequently use them aggressively to try to get to the hoop. Instead, they're used to initiate the offense. That is, we usually move laterally using the screen, reverse the ball, and the screener (JG or MD) dives to the post. Again, I get it in general, since our guards are pretty darned poor penetrators and it's a good way to get space in the post for an entry. But I'd still rather we tried to use them more aggressively at least some of the time and/or tried to have MD or JG pop every once in a while (as with the one time at the beginning of the second half where we did it for JG).
Excellent simple out of bounds stuff in the second-half. We ran the same basic play in the first-half over and over again (not even really trying for an easy shot), and then used the same set but very different action in the second to get some easy looks. Raftery commented on it once when we got the jumper for Jesse.
Jagan continues to be our best overall guard because he at least can finish going to the hoop and has proper basketball instincts on both ends. Too many TOs of course (as with everyone).
I think for now I'd tell Pickett to just be a spot-up guy after one TO per game. He's pretty good on catch and shoot situations when he has time. Less so when he's on the move. And he's almost impossibly turnover-prone once he puts the ball on the deck. You want to continue to give him freedom and hope he improves. But....once he's had that one bad TO, it's time to tone it down.
Great job switching to zone after the ball went out of bounds to create a late-in-shot-clock situation. We did it twice that I remember and it flummoxed them both times.
I'd still rather we tried to press more. Raftery mentioned it, noting that you can only do it when you score. And he's right. But we seem to only do it after made foul shots instead of made FGs. I don't think they fully exposed it even once. Even if I'm not remembering an easy layup or two, our half-court D is poor enough, and we are creating enough turnovers, that it's worth it because it generally slows them down.
I can't believe we almost fouled the desperation three-point shooter after a pump fake on the final possession. And then, after the rebound, WE DID IT AGAIN.
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