This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Dec 23, 2017 20:20:29 GMT -5
These announcers have to stop calling the A&M schedule "ambitious", smh.. The fact that A&M is in apr violation is not surprising when the players spend 6 straight weeks away from classes to help make money for the school.. It's shameful really.. What is shameful was this comment Etomic! You know ZERO about the business of college basketball. Your comment obviously proves that. First of all every D1 player in revenue generating sports (Football/Basketball) is making money for their respective schools and trust me the Hoya players are making way more money for Georgetown then the Alabama A&M players are. Secondly, how do you know they haven't been to class in 6 weeks? Just because they are traveling a lot doesn't mean they aren't attending the bulk of their classes. Also with technology you can attend class from anywhere in the world. Third, Alabama A&M and other "lower" D1 schools play in these pay day games which they use to help fund their program and other competing athletic programs within the university. It's how the NCAA works and why you have the haves & have nots otherwise known as power conferences with a few outlier programs like Gonzaga, UNLV, San Diego St., Rhode Island, and until this season Witchita St. Georgetown earns more money in 1 season from their TV deal then Alabama A&M does in 4-5 years of this ambitious schedule. Lastly the announcers used the term "ambitious schedule" because they didn't have to play as many "Power Conference" teams to accomplish financial goals. They were calling it ambitious behind the philosophy that it prepares them better for their league as well. They said over and over that it was a philosophy that Coach Mike Davis relied on heavily to get his Texas Southern team ready for play in the SWAC. Right or wrong, it has helped Texas Southern & Coach Mike Davis win their conference and make the NCAA tournament 4 out of 5 seasons while occasionally pulling off the major road upset at the Power Conference school which gets the program media attention. So it's has been proven to work. It also helps with recruiting because they can say to the recruits they're after (maybe an under the radar gem) that we are going to play against the best and with you, we feel can pull of the "upset". Think before you post or don't post at all if you don't know what you're talking about...
I respect the information that you have provided as including that you were the 1st person to break Ewing being hired on this board. With that said this statement is a bit harsh don't you think. After all this is a message board which lends itself to opinions whether right or wrong and Etomic B unlike myself, Glidehoyas and eagle54 rarely if ever makes a post that people would deem controversial. Happy Holidays.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,835
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 23, 2017 20:39:26 GMT -5
These announcers have to stop calling the A&M schedule "ambitious", smh.. The fact that A&M is in apr violation is not surprising when the players spend 6 straight weeks away from classes to help make money for the school.. It's shameful really.. What is shameful was this comment Etomic! You know ZERO about the business of college basketball. Your comment obviously proves that. First of all every D1 player in revenue generating sports (Football/Basketball) is making money for their respective schools and trust me the Hoya players are making way more money for Georgetown then the Alabama A&M players are. Secondly, how do you know they haven't been to class in 6 weeks? Just because they are traveling a lot doesn't mean they aren't attending the bulk of their classes. Also with technology you can attend class from anywhere in the world. Third, Alabama A&M and other "lower" D1 schools play in these pay day games which they use to help fund their program and other competing athletic programs within the university. It's how the NCAA works and why you have the haves & have nots otherwise known as power conferences with a few outlier programs like Gonzaga, UNLV, San Diego St., Rhode Island, and until this season Witchita St. Georgetown earns more money in 1 season from their TV deal then Alabama A&M does in 4-5 years of this ambitious schedule. Lastly the announcers used the term "ambitious schedule" because they didn't have to play as many "Power Conference" teams to accomplish financial goals. They were calling it ambitious behind the philosophy that it prepares them better for their league as well. They said over and over that it was a philosophy that Coach Mike Davis relied on heavily to get his Texas Southern team ready for play in the SWAC. Right or wrong, it has helped Texas Southern & Coach Mike Davis win their conference and make the NCAA tournament 4 out of 5 seasons while occasionally pulling off the major road upset at the Power Conference school which gets the program media attention. So it's has been proven to work. It also helps with recruiting because they can say to the recruits they're after (maybe an under the radar gem) that we are going to play against the best and with you, we feel can pull of the "upset". Think before you post or don't post at all if you don't know what you're talking about... Where did I ever dispute that D1 players help to generate revenues for their schools? Though I do doubt that every D1 program makes money in basketball & football.. As to your 2nd point their team is banned from ncaa postseason play due to poor APR scores, that leads me to believe the kids coming thru their program aren't matriculating on a successful path.. If they are taking online classes it's not working out very well.. I also watched a piece on Real Sports this year called "Blood Games" it mainly focused on D1 football but it also touched on D1 basketball where kids in these programs said they weren't attending the majority of their fall classes due to away games.. The administrators/coaches interviewed acknowledged this point as well.. HBCU programs make up less than 10% of the teams in D1 basketball teams but account for almost 75% of the teams on academic probation according to the segment.. Think about that for a moment.. I encourage everyone who has HBO to watch it, it's pretty eye opening.. Your 3rd point I agree with but I'm not sure why you're bringing what Gtown makes into the discussion.. The ambitious schedule to get ready for league play is nonsense to me, especially for a team that's on academic probation and banned from postseason play seems to me the focus should be to get off probation 1st & foremost.. Alabama A&M plays these games for the pay day which is somewhat understandable for a small school but to me it comes at too high a cost to the players academically..
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,374
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Post by drquigley on Dec 23, 2017 22:05:41 GMT -5
My grandsons are both playing D3 division lacrosse. Even at this level there is a definite expectation from coaches that players must work their academics around lacrosse practice/game schedules. Intercollegiate athletics have many benefits for the athletes but balancing school and athletics can be very difficult, especially for students with more "demanding" majors. We shouldn't kid ourselves that there isn't a price to pay - not even counting the physical toll sports like football take on student athletes.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 24, 2017 8:56:08 GMT -5
me too. I am still lamenting over that charge call over Derrickson. If the right call is made there and Derrickson is shooting free throws instead of out of the game...we are 11 and 0. With as weak as our schedule is....we needed that game. The press killed the Hoyas.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 24, 2017 9:01:27 GMT -5
What is shameful was this comment Etomic! You know ZERO about the business of college basketball. Your comment obviously proves that. First of all every D1 player in revenue generating sports (Football/Basketball) is making money for their respective schools and trust me the Hoya players are making way more money for Georgetown then the Alabama A&M players are. Secondly, how do you know they haven't been to class in 6 weeks? Just because they are traveling a lot doesn't mean they aren't attending the bulk of their classes. Also with technology you can attend class from anywhere in the world. Third, Alabama A&M and other "lower" D1 schools play in these pay day games which they use to help fund their program and other competing athletic programs within the university. It's how the NCAA works and why you have the haves & have nots otherwise known as power conferences with a few outlier programs like Gonzaga, UNLV, San Diego St., Rhode Island, and until this season Witchita St. Georgetown earns more money in 1 season from their TV deal then Alabama A&M does in 4-5 years of this ambitious schedule. Lastly the announcers used the term "ambitious schedule" because they didn't have to play as many "Power Conference" teams to accomplish financial goals. They were calling it ambitious behind the philosophy that it prepares them better for their league as well. They said over and over that it was a philosophy that Coach Mike Davis relied on heavily to get his Texas Southern team ready for play in the SWAC. Right or wrong, it has helped Texas Southern & Coach Mike Davis win their conference and make the NCAA tournament 4 out of 5 seasons while occasionally pulling off the major road upset at the Power Conference school which gets the program media attention. So it's has been proven to work. It also helps with recruiting because they can say to the recruits they're after (maybe an under the radar gem) that we are going to play against the best and with you, we feel can pull of the "upset". Think before you post or don't post at all if you don't know what you're talking about...
I respect the information that you have provided as including that you were the 1st person to break Ewing being hired on this board. With that said this statement is a bit harsh don't you think. After all this is a message board which lends itself to opinions whether right or wrong and Etomic B unlike myself, Glidehoyas and eagle54 rarely if ever makes a post that people would deem controversial. Happy Holidays. ThisIn, I stayed out of this. I'm still sipping my tea this morning lol ..it's Christmas Eve. He man I just tell the truth from a coaching standpoint. People know I'm right but hate to admit or even to give me the thumbs up. LOL...
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 28, 2017 2:46:17 GMT -5
What is shameful was this comment Etomic! You know ZERO about the business of college basketball. Your comment obviously proves that. First of all every D1 player in revenue generating sports (Football/Basketball) is making money for their respective schools and trust me the Hoya players are making way more money for Georgetown then the Alabama A&M players are. Secondly, how do you know they haven't been to class in 6 weeks? Just because they are traveling a lot doesn't mean they aren't attending the bulk of their classes. Also with technology you can attend class from anywhere in the world. Third, Alabama A&M and other "lower" D1 schools play in these pay day games which they use to help fund their program and other competing athletic programs within the university. It's how the NCAA works and why you have the haves & have nots otherwise known as power conferences with a few outlier programs like Gonzaga, UNLV, San Diego St., Rhode Island, and until this season Witchita St. Georgetown earns more money in 1 season from their TV deal then Alabama A&M does in 4-5 years of this ambitious schedule. Lastly the announcers used the term "ambitious schedule" because they didn't have to play as many "Power Conference" teams to accomplish financial goals. They were calling it ambitious behind the philosophy that it prepares them better for their league as well. They said over and over that it was a philosophy that Coach Mike Davis relied on heavily to get his Texas Southern team ready for play in the SWAC. Right or wrong, it has helped Texas Southern & Coach Mike Davis win their conference and make the NCAA tournament 4 out of 5 seasons while occasionally pulling off the major road upset at the Power Conference school which gets the program media attention. So it's has been proven to work. It also helps with recruiting because they can say to the recruits they're after (maybe an under the radar gem) that we are going to play against the best and with you, we feel can pull of the "upset". Think before you post or don't post at all if you don't know what you're talking about... Where did I ever dispute that D1 players help to generate revenues for their schools? Though I do doubt that every D1 program makes money in basketball & football.. As to your 2nd point their team is banned from ncaa postseason play due to poor APR scores, that leads me to believe the kids coming thru their program aren't matriculating on a successful path.. If they are taking online classes it's not working out very well.. I also watched a piece on Real Sports this year called "Blood Games" it mainly focused on D1 football but it also touched on D1 basketball where kids in these programs said they weren't attending the majority of their fall classes due to away games.. The administrators/coaches interviewed acknowledged this point as well.. HBCU programs make up less than 10% of the teams in D1 basketball teams but account for almost 75% of the teams on academic probation according to the segment.. Think about that for a moment.. I encourage everyone who has HBO to watch it, it's pretty eye opening.. Your 3rd point I agree with but I'm not sure why you're bringing what Gtown makes into the discussion.. The ambitious schedule to get ready for league play is nonsense to me, especially for a team that's on academic probation and banned from postseason play seems to me the focus should be to get off probation 1st & foremost.. Alabama A&M plays these games for the pay day which is somewhat understandable for a small school but to me it comes at too high a cost to the players academically.. Etomic your original comment came across as you are saying that these student athletes at Alabama A&M are being exploited because they aren't matriculating toward graduation due to your belief that they aren't attending classes so they can make money for the school. "The fact that A&M is in apr violation is not surprising when the players spend 6 straight weeks away from classes to help make money for the school.. It's shameful really.." I replied that all D1 athletes in MBB & Football are being used to make money for their respective university. And yes all D1 players in MBB & Football make money for their respective schools. Whether they turn a profit or are profitable is a different question and conversation. Regarding the APR scores that Alabama A&M is currently being penalized for, first of all those were all incurred over the last 4 years by the previous Head Coach & staff. This is Coach Donnie Marsh and his staff's first season so to assume that they are still currently violating the APR or doing things that will lead to violating the APR or to say or suggest they are exploiting the student athletes on the MMB team by having them travel and play away from campus for "6 straight weeks away from classes" (your words) is what I found shameful because it lacked context, was peddling of a complete false narrative of exploitation of black student athletes at the HBCU. I won't call it a lie because I don't believe and hope it wasn't intentional. So lets first address the truth. Alabama A&M didn't play 6 weeks away from class. They played 2 home games, 10 true road games and 1 neutral court game where it's very probable based on scheduling that they spent no more than 2 days total away from classes on campus. Here's why; Alabama A&M staff was very judicious in making their schedule. If you look at their schedule Alabama A&M MBB 2017-2018 Schedule , they played only 5 games that required flights and only their season opener at Ohio University required them to miss 1 day of classes. There 4 other flights were smartly schedule around the thanksgiving holiday and post semester and finals. That accounted for 6 games. Their 7 other games were a bus ride away or a home game. Back to your original statement on how it was shameful that they spent 6 weeks away from class to make money for the school (paraphrasing). Did you find it shameful when West Virginia and Texas A&M traveled to Germany to play one game to start the season in what is probably the middle of the semester. Did you criticize LaSalle, Towson, Holy Cross, and Manhattan for traveling all the way to Northern Ireland to play 2 games in the beginning of December. Were you worried about Georgetown's MBB student athletes academics when they traveled to South Korea to start the 2013-2014 season. A season where they lost a player due to poor academics. All these programs took these long trips to compete in the middle of their academic semesters so that their schools could earn a very nice payday and exposure for their universities. It's also quite possible that these trips overseas by all these universities caused the student athletes of these programs to each miss more classes then Alabama A&M did this season in their 13 game OOC schedule. Now onto your HBO Real Sports "Blood Games" post. I watched that piece when it was originally aired and that was clearly about the HBCU's playing the much bigger, stronger, faster, better athletes and deeper FOOTBALL team's in terms of scholarship athletes. It was about the physical beating and toll the FOOTBALL players at the HBCU would take against the Big Time Power D1 teams like the Alabama's, Georgia's, Michigan's, Clemson, Florida State, Etc. for a big day to fund the programs. Had very little to nothing to do with college basketball and how the kids at HBCU's have to travel and play pay day games. Also you do know that other schools outside of the MEAC & SWAC play pay day games as well to fund their programs. There are solid mid majors who schedule these kind of match ups. Programs in conferences like the MAAC, Sun a Belt, NEC, A-Sun, WAC, WCC,BIG WEST, America East, Big South, Conference USA, etc. Basically all the "1 or 2 Teams Bid Conferences" play "Pay Day Games". So this isn't a MEAC or SWAC (HBCU) specific situation. Pay day games or "Buy Games" are a result of the haves (Power Conferences) and the have nots (mid & lower D1 conferences & programs). IT'S ABOUT $$$. Last topic is you made your statements about how HBCU's make up 75% of the penalized programs in a combination of sports but primarily in football and basketball but you never asked why are these schools being penalized. While the APR has great intentions, it has its flaws as well. The main flaw is that it penalizes programs who lack stability in terms of retention. When a player transfers from HBCU their options are typically minimal with a lot of underclassman ending up at the JUCO level where they have to graduate to return back to a D1 level program without any academic support. Or they transfer to a lower college level like the NAIA which the APR doesn't take into account. Also sometimes in a desire to compete at a higher level, they will bring in athletically talented athletes who sometimes have very questionable academic profiles. So all these aspects can lead to players at HBCU's who transfer out not completing their degrees on time or not at all and the HBCU programs taking a lot more hits to their APR. The NCAA makes so much money that they could fix this but the Power Conference programs don't want to have complete revenue sharing because it would take away some of their advantage. The reason why your original comment was shameful and offensive is because it was; 1. Completely False. They didn't spend 6 weeks away from classes. They probably only spent 2 days away from class at the most. This is a new staff who for all intents and purposes as much as we know is doing everything they can to improve their APR score. 2. Suggested and pushed a narrative of exploitation at Alabama A&M a Historically Black College/University. I have family members who were/are athletes at HBCU's and they all graduated on time. I worked in an athletic department of an HBCU after I graduated college and I've seen first hand how hard academics and graduating was pushed in the Athletic Department, throughout the university and at the conference level. As a former high school & grassroots coach I have sent athletes to play at HBCU's and they all graduated on time. 3. The APR while having it's pluses, has very big flaws that penalize the smaller schools who struggle financially and lack stability at a much higher rate because they don't have the academic support staff to assist the students like the high major programs have and they take bigger risk in a desire to compete at a higher level. I honestly expected better from you Etomic because you're usually so through in your post when making a statement. For example you must have posted every other BIG EAST teams social media post that promoted their off season workouts for months to point at how Coach Ewing had to revamp the program's social media game. You even posted the Hoyas WBB tweets to try and prove your point. Your assumptions in your original post are dangerous pervasive false narrative that affects HBCU's. I had to call you out on this because I can't let lies/falsehoods just go especially when dealing of a subject matter of this kind that can be misleading to those who already hold a disrespectful opinion of HBCU's. Nothing I stated is meant to be a personal attack on you. Just couldn't let this mis truth/falsehood slide.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,835
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 28, 2017 21:26:42 GMT -5
I stand corrected on A&M’s schedule & the amount of classes missed this season.. That post came about in a moment of melding bits of information together in my head while watching the game, you were 100% right I didn't look into anything.. I was wrong about that.. I’ll admit I based most of my initial opinion off the HBO piece where they spoke to a basketball player, coach and administrator from different schools if I recall correctly.. I’m pretty sure the basketball coach was an alumni of an HBCU.. They all stated the ooc schedule hurt the players academically, I watched the episode again, the part on basketball was 4:30 of a 17 minute segment.. To me that’s much more than little to nothing.. I will say HBO's use of %'s instead of actual number skews the data a lot, only 4 men's teams are on probation & 3 are from HBCU's.. I did do some research on the APR to get a better understanding of how the scores are generated and I agree it can definitely be viewed as flawed but according to what I've read accommodations are made for programs who have kids that transfer or leave early or who do not have the resources of larger programs.. www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2017/05/10/17-d-i-teams-banned-from-postseason-apr-scores/101506286/For the last two years, the NCAA has allowed teams from HBCUs and “limited resource” universities to avoid some penalties by meeting specific academic criteria including a graduation rate for athletes that exceeds the student body at large. The NCAA has also allocated additional money to underfunded schools to aid in academic support.A four year score of 930 is what's required for a passing grade or a score of 940 for a two year period.. The 930 means approximately 50% of the Kids who came thru a given program graduated during that period.. Imho that’s not a very high bar.. According to the list provided in the above article A&M scored 869 for the 4 year time frame they're currently on probation for.. Their 2 year score was 904.. As to whether I find the travel of the other programs you mentioned shameful, I honestly never gave it a thought and more than likely would have never spoken about A&M if Gtown wasn't playing them.. Although to me you’re changing the context of what I found shameful due to a couple of reasons.. 1) The examples you're using are all one offs for these programs unlike the seemingly every year occurrence of other schools early season schedule.. 2) None of the programs you’ve listed are in APR violation, if they were I wouldn’t hesitate to call it shameful.. When Uconn was banned due to poor APR scores a few years back, I told every Uconn fan/alum I knew(I know a lot unfortunately) that they should be ashamed of their program.. I don’t think exploiting is the right word, I'd prefer failing.. To me they're failing too high a number of kids who join their program and I'll be rooting for them to get it corrected.. I'm really not trying to beat up on A&M as an institution, I just feel that all basketball or athletic programs should be able to get over the low bar the NCAA sets as the academic threshold..
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