Georgetown-Columbia Discussion

[Admin]

1st quarter updates here:

GU: Nine plays to C32, missed 50 yard FG attempt.
CU: Ten plans to G25, defense holds on 4th down.
GU: Eight plays to C32, missed 45 yard FG attempt.
CU: Three and out, punt to G18
GU: Seven plays, punt.

End of 1, no score.

[Admin]

2nd quarter update:

GU: Fake punt fails, CU set up at G45
CU: Eight plays, 45 yards, 18 yd pass CU 7-0 12:22 2nd
GU: Three and out, punt to G43. Barnes injured and out of game.
CU: Eight plays, long TD pass called back on offensive pass interference. Punt to G20.
GU: Six plays, punt botched, CU sets up at G25.
CU: Five plays, TD. CU 14-0 4:44 2nd
GU: Three and out, punt to C34
CU: Three and out, punt to G13
GU: Three and out, punt to G47
CU: Seven plays, TD CU 21-0 0:07 2nd

Halftime, 21-0. Since Barnes was knocked out, Georgetown has a total of 9 yards.

Georgetown has not come back from a 21 point deficit in the PL era.

[Admin]

Third quarter update:

CU: Seven plays, punt to G18
GU: Six plays, punt to C1
CU: Three and out, punt to C47
GU: Three plays, -9 yards. Norris isn't doing anything. Punt returned to C35.
CU: 11 plays to GU 10.

End of three, 21-0.

[Admin]

Fourth quarter update:

CU: 14 plays, 65 yards CU 28-0 14:50 4th
GU: Six plays, 56 yards, CU defense eased up. CU 28-7 11:29 4th
CU: Seven plays, 75 yards, three GU personal fouls and a pass interference call CU 35-7 7:52 4th
GU: Columbia defense in garbage time mode: One play, 83 yds. CU 35-14 7:33 4th
CU: Runs out the clock, takes a knee at the G12.

Final, 35-14. Not a lot of hope around this team right now, and it's only September.

[Nevada Hoya]

Didn't everybody used to beat up on Columbia??? The Hoyas continued their bad first half offense.

[FrazierFanatic]

Even special teams stunk - 2 missed field goals, botched punt and failed fake punt. The '62 Mets of college football.

[reformation]

Columbia had a blurb on their website indicating that this years and last yrs recruiting classes were 18 and 25th ranked in FCS. Not sure how accurate these rankings are once one goes further down the talent scale, but given that Gtwn is not even on the map in that regard, not surprised at the outcome.

[reformation]

Columbia had a blurb on their website indicating that this years and last yrs recruiting classes were 18 and 25th ranked in FCS. Not sure how accurate these rankings are once one goes further down the talent scale, but given that Gtwn is not even on the map in that regard, not surprised at the outcome.

[DFW HOYA]

Sept 23, 2017 18:27:50 GMT -5 reformation said:

Columbia had a blurb on their website indicating that this years and last yrs recruiting classes were 18 and 25th ranked in FCS. Not sure how accurate these rankings are once one goes further down the talent scale, but given that Gtwn is not even on the map in that regard, not surprised at the outcome.

Al Bagnoli was a winner at Penn, he gets the Ivy recruiting formula, and he is at a school where living in New York used to be a deal-killer but is now much more popular to millenials.

Georgetown really struggles to recruit for obvious reasons ("Coach, is that the field? "Keep walking, son, nothing to see there...") and not so obvious ones. Georgetown does not consistently recruit offensive linemen and backs, two necessary elements for a credible offense. Both positions tend to be undersized because, frankly, that's what's left after the I-A schools, the Ivies, and the scholarship PL schools pick off those who can otherwise be admitted to Georgetown, because GU isn't able to chase after someone with a 950 SAT as some other schools do. An undersized line gets worn down in the trenches, which makes undersized backs easier targets and more likely to get injured.

I had someone talking to me today and noting that local HS coaches aren't connected with Georgetown. When was the last offensive kid from Westfield or DeMatha or Stone Bridge kid to commit locally, much less Gonzaga or Georgetown Prep? GU's two-deep of running backs come from Florida, Missouri, Massachusetts, and Texas, none of whom was an all-state or all-region selection. That's not to say they don't give 100% or aren't good guys, only that they are either a step slow or a few inches too small to get an offer elsewhere.

Put another way--as posted on the I-AA board, here are the totals of all-PL first team offensive players since 2001 by school.

Colgate: 48
Lehigh: 48
Fordham: 45
Lafayette: 39
Holy Cross: 32
Bucknell: 15
Georgetown 2

Of Georgetown's two selections, one was a MAAC recruit and the other was chosen as a return specialist, but was essentially a defensive player. Put another way, not a single Georgetown offensive recruit in 16 years has made the all-league team, while 16 Georgetown players have made the 1st team on defense over a 16 year period.

[RusskyHoya]

Sept 23, 2017 18:57:59 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Georgetown really struggles to recruit for obvious reasons ("Coach, is that the field? "Keep walking, son, nothing to see there...") and not so obvious ones. Georgetown does not consistently recruit offensive linemen and backs, two necessary elements for a credible offense. Both positions tend to be undersized because, frankly, that's what's left after the I-A schools, the Ivies, and the scholarship PL schools pick off those who can otherwise be admitted to Georgetown, because GU isn't able to chase after someone with a 950 SAT as some other schools do. An undersized line gets worn down in the trenches, which makes undersized backs easier targets and more likely to get injured.

Ok, let's just be totally clear here: the notion that the football program is somehow restricted to only recruiting OLs and backs "who can otherwise be admitted to Georgetown" is highly misleading. Georgetown receives far, far more applications from 'qualified' applicants than it can possibly admit. The profiles of many denials are on par with - and in more than a few cases, quantitatively superior to - those of admits. And I'm not just talking about affirmative action or other special interest cases. It is a hugely competitive environment for non-athlete applicants.

It's true that Georgetown football generally cannot "chase after someone with a 950 SAT as some other schools do," but there is a wiiiiide amount of space between that level and the level where you are a lock for straight-up admission to Georgetown. There are precious few D-I caliber athletes that would meet that criteria - really in any sport, but most definitely in football. It's true at the Ivies and it's true at Georgetown.

Again, it's not to say that the Academic Index and high standards aren't a hindrance to recruiting for Georgetown - they certainly are. But we need to accurately characterize the issue before we can identify what measures - if any - can be deployed to mitigate it.

Sept 23, 2017 18:57:59 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

I had someone talking to me today and noting that local HS coaches aren't connected with Georgetown. When was the last offensive kid from Westfield or DeMatha or Stone Bridge kid to commit locally, much less Gonzaga or Georgetown Prep? GU's two-deep of running backs come from Florida, Missouri, Massachusetts, and Texas, none of whom was an all-state or all-region selection. That's not to say they don't give 100% or aren't good guys, only that they are either a step slow or a few inches too small to get an offer elsewhere.

I mean... do we think that the talent pool at DC area high schools is somehow deeper than Florida, Missouri, Massachusetts, or TEXAS of all places? Local connections are great for any number of reasons, but you could fill out dozens of FCS champions with nothing but players from Florida or Texas. You go where the players are (Mass happens to be where many of the prep schools to get athletes qualified for NCAA standards are, and Missouri is now SEC country, for better or worse).