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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 30, 2019 12:39:14 GMT -5
The funny thing is if the young man can play, we will never here from those that crapped all over his commitment to Georgetown admitting they were wrong. But if he can't, they will be all over hoyatalk in every thread saying they were right. Look at McClung and all those posters that were poo-pooing when he initially committed. Where are all those people now. Occasionally they stick their heads out from their hiding places to take a passive aggressive shot at McClung when he doesn't play well but overall...crickets. First, I want to say that I think it's silly for anybody to criticize a recruit who has committed and has not even set foot on campus yet (at least as an enrolled student). The least we owe to both the recruit and to the coaching staff is to let the kid come, enroll, and play, and then make an evaluation. I think more generalized comments about the status of recruiting, etc. are totally fair game, but no reason to direct any of it at the kid. He was offered, he accepted. In mind mind, the kid should want to come here! Over the years, we have had stars (Greg Monroe, Porter), guys who have not necessarily come out of the gate swinging, but have been solid in the long run (for example, Trawick), and guys who simply haven't worked out very well even if they are good guys (Cameron). And these guys have been ranked all over the spectrum. Second, on McClung, I don't know if we are reading different message boards, but there certainly were posters who criticized McClung plenty during the season last year. And some was warranted, some wasn't. So I am not sure I'd say it has been "crickets." Personally, I am pretty high and optimistic on McClung because I think he's got wonderful athleticism, he has an unstoppable work ethic and drive, and I think with more fine-tuning he has a good chance of being a really, really, good player for us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 12:54:11 GMT -5
Or perhaps he is the only PG he could get because we are not high on the radar for many (despite how many recruits “list” us). We are celebrating two former players being drafted into the Gleague. We only have two former players on NBA rosters. Penny Hardaway and Juwan Howard have created more buzz than Ewing. We are now celebrating the recruitment of a kid with offers from Canisius, ETSU, Georgia State. I’m hopeful but realistic. He landed Akinjo, and that's probably the biggest reason why other top PG's don't want to come here rn tbh. It's James and Mac and the fact they're only Sophomores. These kids want to play, they don't want to wait. I think the part most people are forgetting is we're very young at key positions. We start 3 Sophomores and PT is usually the biggest selling point when you're trying to rebuild a program. Imo anytime a kid is able to make some money playing a professional sport I think it's reason to be happy for them. It's pretty cool that 2 kids that came off the bench last year get to make a little coin doing what they love to do. I can't see how that would be viewed negatively by anyone tbh.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 30, 2019 13:12:14 GMT -5
He landed Akinjo, and that's probably the biggest reason why other top PG's don't want to come here rn tbh. It's James and Mac and the fact they're only Sophomores. These kids want to play, they don't want to wait. I think the part most people are forgetting is we're very young at key positions. We start 3 Sophomores and PT is usually the biggest selling point when you're trying to rebuild a program. So why did Davis pick UNC?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 13:17:05 GMT -5
He landed Akinjo, and that's probably the biggest reason why other top PG's don't want to come here rn tbh. It's James and Mac and the fact they're only Sophomores. These kids want to play, they don't want to wait. I think the part most people are forgetting is we're very young at key positions. We start 3 Sophomores and PT is usually the biggest selling point when you're trying to rebuild a program. So why did Davis pick UNC? Because they're a blue blood. Because the compete for championships every year. Because the only players that are in front of him are Anthony Harris and kids that are part of his current class Because they have a solid track record getting kids to the league. In his interviews a constant theme was. "Coach Ewing said I can play with McClung and Akinjo." So reading between the lines it seems like their presence had an effect imo. But at the end of the day they get kids to come like him all the time because they just want to play at UNC. They just want to play at UK or Duke. We're not there yet.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Oct 30, 2019 13:25:12 GMT -5
Is anyone on campus this weekend?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 30, 2019 13:40:08 GMT -5
If anyone is, apparently this is not the thread to read about it.
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DudeSlade
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Post by DudeSlade on Oct 30, 2019 13:47:20 GMT -5
Imo anytime a kid is able to make some money playing a professional sport I think it's reason to be happy for them. It's pretty cool that 2 kids that came off the bench last year get to make a little coin doing what they love to do. I can't see how that would be viewed negatively by anyone tbh. I'd actually think the idea that 2 back-ups could play professionally in the G-League would be viewed pretty positively. "You can be a back-up at Georgetown and still play professionally!" I remember USC using Matt Cassell getting drafted by the Patriots after backing up Leinart his whole career as a selling point for QBs -- that even our back-ups get drafted. Obviously we'd like to see a lot more of our kids playing in the NBA. We have far too few right now and it's jarring after the 90s/early 00s. But that ties back to the end of the JTIII era. I didn't want to admit it even up til last year, but I think the program's fall was farther, faster than was realized. The dearth of talent in the NBA is indicative. But we do have a lot of guys playing overseas and in the G-League and that's a positive that you can still have a good career (how many of us would take 6-figure plus jobs the first few years out of college? I sure as hell would.). What I like that Pat is doing is he seems to be building back up a program for the long-term. He has a type of playing style in mind, he has a type of player for each positional group in mind, he has a mentality he wants. Those are things that benefit you long term. Jay Wright did the same at Villanova and it took him a while to get that program where we think of it now and now he's pulling in top recruits. I think I may have deluded myself that Georgetown was in a position to pull a Howard or Penny and suddenly be back on top. I don't know if Pat thought he could do the same when he started. But I can see a real strategic plan developing and approach more akin to Wright's or probably even Big John's (I wasn't around then, so not certain but it seems he had a plan that took awhile) or others that built programs up from little (Wooden, Coach K, etc.). Obviously I'm cherry-picking the ones that turned out amazing (not the much greater number of ones that failed), because obviously that's what I'm hoping for. But if you can't pull a Howard/Penny, this at least is a viable path to success that I didn't realize how far away from we were before Pat took over.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 30, 2019 15:37:10 GMT -5
So why did Davis pick UNC? Because they're a blue blood. Because the compete for championships every year. Because the only players that are in front of him are Anthony Harris and kids that are part of his current class Because they have a solid track record getting kids to the league. In his interviews a constant theme was. "Coach Ewing said I can play with McClung and Akinjo." So reading between the lines it seems like their presence had an effect imo. But at the end of the day they get kids to come like him all the time because they just want to play at UNC. They just want to play at UK or Duke. We're not there yet. Exactly. Say what you will about UNC, but in the last ten years (starting in 2009), these are their March results: Champion, Missed Tournament, Elite Eight, Elite Eight, Second Round, Second Round, Sweet Sixteen, Runner Up to Championship, Championship, Second Round, Sweet 16. In 16 seasons at UNC, Roy Williams has made the NCAA tournament 15 times, won three championships, and finished runner up once. It's very impressive and for recruits looking at that aspect as a major factor, we simply cannot compete with that.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 30, 2019 16:53:24 GMT -5
Say what you will about UNC, but in the last ten years (starting in 2009), these are their March results: Champion, Missed Tournament, Elite Eight, Elite Eight, Second Round, Second Round, Sweet Sixteen, Runner Up to Championship, Championship, Second Round, Sweet 16. Ouch. Compare that to Missed Tournament, 1st Rd, 1st Rd, 2nd Rd, 1st Rd, Missed Tournament, 2nd Rd, no bid, no bid, no bid, and Missed Tournament. Time to step forward in the 2020's.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Oct 30, 2019 17:02:19 GMT -5
Say what you will about UNC, but in the last ten years (starting in 2009), these are their March results: Champion, Missed Tournament, Elite Eight, Elite Eight, Second Round, Second Round, Sweet Sixteen, Runner Up to Championship, Championship, Second Round, Sweet 16. Ouch. Compare that to Missed Tournament, 1st Rd, 1st Rd, 2nd Rd, 1st Rd, Missed Tournament, 2nd Rd, no bid, no bid, no bid, and Missed Tournament. Time to step forward in the 2020's. That is the plan sir.
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Jan 7, 2020 18:14:01 GMT -5
Anybody on campus this week maybe?
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Post by reformation on Jan 7, 2020 23:25:10 GMT -5
Having seen RJ Davis(past wknd)/Akingo/Mac play in person I don't think Davis would have been a backup talent wise-have no idea what the discussion was re sharing playing time. Suspect real reason was as stated that UNC is viewed as different level program.
For whatever reason Patrick has not been able to make the case that he can help kids better than the other programs into the league. Whatever our recruiting pitch/program/personnel needs to be reassessed. As I mentioned in another thread I'm friendly with an ex NFL star who knows Ewing pretty well and worked with him together on charity events when they both played in NY. . He told me last year Patrick would struggle with recruiting due to his personal style. Obviously the teams recent performance is pretty weak so that is also an issue.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 8, 2020 8:43:35 GMT -5
Having seen RJ Davis(past wknd)/Akingo/Mac play in person I don't think Davis would have been a backup talent wise-have no idea what the discussion was re sharing playing time. Suspect real reason was as stated that UNC is viewed as different level program. For whatever reason Patrick has not been able to make the case that he can help kids better than the other programs into the league. Whatever our recruiting pitch/program/personnel needs to be reassessed. As I mentioned in another thread I'm friendly with an ex NFL star who knows Ewing pretty well and worked with him together on charity events when they both played in NY. . He told me last year Patrick would struggle with recruiting due to his personal style. Obviously the teams recent performance is pretty weak so that is also an issue. I have always wondered how Ewing's personality resonated with recruits. I don't know Coach Ewing personally at all and have never even had a conversation with him, but he always seemed to be an imposing, almost intimidating, type of figure viewing him on TV as a player and even as a coach. That worked great for him as a player and that work ethic and aggressive nature made him into the Hall of Fame player he was in the NBA. I have seen some posters say that he can be a pretty funny and and charming guy when he wants to be and I don't doubt that, but I do wonder if recruits can get that feeling from him during the brief interactions that happen in the recruiting process. You see and hear about some player who seem to be inspired and have a real connection with their coaches beyond just basketball, but I have not gotten that sense from the Georgetown players yet. Maybe that is going on and we just don't hear about it. I am sure the players appreciate and respect Coach Ewing for his knowledge of the game and his work ethic in coaching them hard, but I am not sure if they have that warm and fuzzy, family type of feeling that seems so important in building programs with long term success. It seems a lot of these high level recruits want to feel like they have a "special relationship" with their coach and I hope that is something Coach Ewing is developing with the players he recruits.
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doc2122
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Post by doc2122 on Jan 8, 2020 9:06:31 GMT -5
Is O'Bannon on his official visit?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 9:46:20 GMT -5
Is O'Bannon on his official visit? He committed to TCU
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doc2122
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Post by doc2122 on Jan 8, 2020 10:00:21 GMT -5
Thank you. Just saw that
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 8, 2020 11:14:04 GMT -5
Is O'Bannon on his official visit? He committed to TCU It's cases like this which Ewing (and by the extension the staff) must get frustrated over. It's hard to compare Georgetown and TCU. Really hard. TCU has two NCAA bids in 33 years, has sent six players to the NBA since 1971 (Kurt Thomas and Lee Nailon being the most recognizable names), have not won a conference title since 1998 (when they were in the WAC) and have no path to do so in the Big 12. O'Bannon is a great add. How are they winning these recruits? Jamie Dixon has a really good staff with a mix of in-game and recruiting experience. There are only two of three coaches nationwide that can walk in a gym and sway a recruit and Patrick Ewing isn't one of them. Some of these kids have seen everyone from Mark Few to Jay Wright show up, so a name coach is nothing new. The hard work of meeting high school coaches, evaluating underclassmen two and three years in advance, the personal relationships of recruiting truly make a difference and Georgetown seems a step behind. Because Orr, Waheed, and Kirby don't have as many prospects, Ewing is flying nearly every off day he has to some high school gym to get his foot in the door. That's admirable (something JT III was reportedly not always interested in doing) but he's playing from behind. Georgetown has relied on decommits, transfers, and projects to stay afloat, and it's not working. Making an offer to Charles O'Bannon is one thing, but when TCU assistants have been in touch with O'Bannon since his days at Bishop Gorman, that pays dividends.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 8, 2020 11:19:24 GMT -5
Having seen RJ Davis(past wknd)/Akingo/Mac play in person I don't think Davis would have been a backup talent wise-have no idea what the discussion was re sharing playing time. Suspect real reason was as stated that UNC is viewed as different level program. For whatever reason Patrick has not been able to make the case that he can help kids better than the other programs into the league. Whatever our recruiting pitch/program/personnel needs to be reassessed. As I mentioned in another thread I'm friendly with an ex NFL star who knows Ewing pretty well and worked with him together on charity events when they both played in NY. . He told me last year Patrick would struggle with recruiting due to his personal style. Obviously the teams recent performance is pretty weak so that is also an issue. I have always wondered how Ewing's personality resonated with recruits. I don't know Coach Ewing personally at all and have never even had a conversation with him, but he always seemed to be an imposing, almost intimidating, type of figure viewing him on TV as a player and even as a coach. That worked great for him as a player and that work ethic and aggressive nature made him into the Hall of Fame player he was in the NBA. I have seen some posters say that he can be a pretty funny and and charming guy when he wants to be and I don't doubt that, but I do wonder if recruits can get that feeling from him during the brief interactions that happen in the recruiting process. You see and hear about some player who seem to be inspired and have a real connection with their coaches beyond just basketball, but I have not gotten that sense from the Georgetown players yet. Maybe that is going on and we just don't hear about it. I am sure the players appreciate and respect Coach Ewing for his knowledge of the game and his work ethic in coaching them hard, but I am not sure if they have that warm and fuzzy, family type of feeling that seems so important in building programs with long term success. It seems a lot of these high level recruits want to feel like they have a "special relationship" with their coach and I hope that is something Coach Ewing is developing with the players he recruits. If the recruiting fate is going to be heavily dependent on PE then they're going to struggle for a while, the program needs the assistants to have a much bigger impact especially in relationship building... Too much is on his shoulders imo... On Edit - DFW's post above really illustrates what I'm trying to say here...
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 8, 2020 11:31:55 GMT -5
It's cases like this which Ewing (and by the extension the staff) must get frustrated over. It's hard to compare Georgetown and TCU. Really hard. TCU has two NCAA bids in 33 years, has sent six players to the NBA since 1971 (Kurt Thomas and Lee Nailon being the most recognizable names), have not won a conference title since 1998 (when they were in the WAC) and have no path to do so in the Big 12. O'Bannon is a great add. How are they winning these recruits? Jamie Dixon has a really good staff with a mix of in-game and recruiting experience. There are only two of three coaches nationwide that can walk in a gym and sway a recruit and Patrick Ewing isn't one of them. Some of these kids have seen everyone from Mark Few to Jay Wright show up, so a name coach is nothing new. The hard work of meeting high school coaches, evaluating underclassmen two and three years in advance, the personal relationships of recruiting truly make a difference and Georgetown seems a step behind. Because Orr, Waheed, and Kirby don't have as many prospects, Ewing is flying nearly every off day he has to some high school gym to get his foot in the door. That's admirable (something JT III was reportedly not always interested in doing) but he's playing from behind. Georgetown has relied on decommits, transfers, and projects to stay afloat, and it's not working. Making an offer to Charles O'Bannon is one thing, but when TCU assistants have been in touch with O'Bannon since his days at Bishop Gorman, that pays dividends. 100% agree. Given there has been no changes to the staff, you would think closing on 3 year we would have cultivated some relationships that give us more access to prospects. Instead, I see the staff flying all over the country dropping in on kids and giving them an offer late in the process. In my opinion, Ewing has to make changes this offseason to the coaching staff. Too much falls on him, and I am not saying Ewing is not to blame. He appears to very much enjoy being in control. But he has to realize that the current strategy is not effective. It actually may be too late in his tenure now, but he has got to try.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 8, 2020 11:53:18 GMT -5
It's cases like this which Ewing (and by the extension the staff) must get frustrated over. It's hard to compare Georgetown and TCU. Really hard. TCU has two NCAA bids in 33 years, has sent six players to the NBA since 1971 (Kurt Thomas and Lee Nailon being the most recognizable names), have not won a conference title since 1998 (when they were in the WAC) and have no path to do so in the Big 12. O'Bannon is a great add. How are they winning these recruits? Jamie Dixon has a really good staff with a mix of in-game and recruiting experience. There are only two of three coaches nationwide that can walk in a gym and sway a recruit and Patrick Ewing isn't one of them. Some of these kids have seen everyone from Mark Few to Jay Wright show up, so a name coach is nothing new. The hard work of meeting high school coaches, evaluating underclassmen two and three years in advance, the personal relationships of recruiting truly make a difference and Georgetown seems a step behind. Because Orr, Waheed, and Kirby don't have as many prospects, Ewing is flying nearly every off day he has to some high school gym to get his foot in the door. That's admirable (something JT III was reportedly not always interested in doing) but he's playing from behind. Georgetown has relied on decommits, transfers, and projects to stay afloat, and it's not working. Making an offer to Charles O'Bannon is one thing, but when TCU assistants have been in touch with O'Bannon since his days at Bishop Gorman, that pays dividends. 100% agree. Given there has been no changes to the staff, you would think closing on 3 year we would have cultivated some relationships that give us more access to prospects. Instead, I see the staff flying all over the country dropping in on kids and giving them an offer late in the process. In my opinion, Ewing has to make changes this offseason to the coaching staff. Too much falls on him, and I am not saying Ewing is not to blame. He appears to very much enjoy being in control. But he has to realize that the current strategy is not effective. It actually may be too late in his tenure now, but he has got to try. I think if we had a normal athletic department, it probably would be too late. We're a few more losses away from missing the NCAAs three years in a row, with a much worse roster returning next season. Not many coaches would be able to survive 4 straight non-NCAA Tournament seasons, with the core of his top recruiting class having bailed on the program. But this is Georgetown, the coach is Patrick Ewing and John Thompson II is still alive. My guess is Ewing will get at least 5 seasons to make the NCAAs, assuming he wants to stay that long. Given this, I think Ewing's best bet is to ditch one, possibly two of his assistants as soon as the season is over. And he needs to replace them with at least one, ideally two highly connected recruiters - people with close ties to a top tier prep school program and/or a top tier AAU program. Those new assistants need to bring in 1 or more highly sought after recruits immediately. DePaul did this with the young coach from La Lumiere a few years ago - guy was certainly shady, but he brought several recruits with him and may have saved Leitao's job in the process. Orr and Waheed have brought very little to the table from a recruiting perspective - those guys should both be on the chopping block, in my opinion (Waheed especially, whose DC roots have generated measly recruiting results).
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