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Post by reformation on Sept 24, 2017 19:56:28 GMT -5
Seems a bit far fetched to think that a few extra spots would bring us from a very mediocre program to an elite program, ie. beating top 10 programs. --the staff has shown no ability to recruit impact players over the last decade, doubt it would change that much with a few extra sports. take a look at the top 20 recruiting classes from this past year: volleyballmag.com/2017-top-recruiting-classes/. Hard to see Gtwn in that mix. By way of comparison men's tennis with worse facilities and no schoolies pulled in a top 30 recruit this yr and has to recruit against all of our natural compeitors with better facilities , scholarships better league, history etc. Looking at the schools which generate top recruiting classes Duke, Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, Vandy, Har, Nwester, Stan etc.I would think we could compete for top recruits more consistently if we had scholarships--that's just one example of a program that at least has shown some promise with limited resources--i'd much rather invest in a program that has shown some good things with no resources versus one that has little to show for a decent resource investment over a long period of time. Even if we didn't increase funding for another sport, I think we'd be better off investing in better coaches for sports that underperform like LAX to take one ex, than making a marginal improvement in VB. I'm sure VB would improve with the extra 3 schoolies, just hard to see that the improvement would be so dramatic as to justify the investment when we could probably get much better results by allocating marginal funds elsewhere.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,746
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 24, 2017 22:28:56 GMT -5
By way of comparison men's tennis with worse facilities and no schoolies pulled in a top 30 recruit this yr and has to recruit against all of our natural compeitors with better facilities , scholarships better league, history etc. Looking at the schools which generate top recruiting classes Duke, Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, Vandy, Har, Nwester, Stan etc.I would think we could compete for top recruits more consistently if we had scholarships--that's just one example of a program that at least has shown some promise with limited resources--i'd much rather invest in a program that has shown some good things with no resources versus one that has little to show for a decent resource investment over a long period of time. That may be generous. Georgetown tennis has no facilities. Try selling a recruit that it plays its home games at a YMCA. www.thehoya.com/tennis-squads-to-compete-in-pair-of-home-matches/
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Post by hilltophoya on Sept 25, 2017 8:10:41 GMT -5
Yesterday was a disappointing and discouraging day for Hoya Volleyball (and Hoya fans). In my opinion, yesterday's loss to Providence is the first data point this season that does not suggest that the team has made progress. It is still my opinion that this year's team has made progress since last year -- quite a bit of progress, actually. Unfortunately, matches like yesterday's don't support that view. Ultimately, progress should be reflected in the record. Earlier in the season, it was. At this point, it's not. Hopefully the Hoyas can turn it around and win some matches in conference.
The absence of Eichie continues to create a significant challenge for the Hoyas. Her absence is apparent both on offense (where we have fewer options and are more predictable) and on defense (her presence at the net). But, I still thought they would beat Providence.
Butler and Xavier on deck this weekend at McDonough. Hopefully the ladies can turn things around.
Edited to add: Providence is a better team than they've been in past years. I'm well aware that their impressive record included wins over some pretty weak competition, but there is not doubt that they've improved. This weekend included wins over Villanova in four and Georgetown in five. That said, I still believe Georgetown should have won yesterday.
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Post by hilltophoya on Sept 25, 2017 8:55:38 GMT -5
Seems a bit far fetched to think that a few extra spots would bring us from a very mediocre program to an elite program, ie. beating top 10 programs. --the staff has shown no ability to recruit impact players over the last decade, doubt it would change that much with a few extra sports. take a look at the top 20 recruiting classes from this past year: volleyballmag.com/2017-top-recruiting-classes/. Hard to see Gtwn in that mix. By way of comparison men's tennis with worse facilities and no schoolies pulled in a top 30 recruit this yr and has to recruit against all of our natural compeitors with better facilities , scholarships better league, history etc. Looking at the schools which generate top recruiting classes Duke, Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, Vandy, Har, Nwester, Stan etc.I would think we could compete for top recruits more consistently if we had scholarships--that's just one example of a program that at least has shown some promise with limited resources--i'd much rather invest in a program that has shown some good things with no resources versus one that has little to show for a decent resource investment over a long period of time. Even if we didn't increase funding for another sport, I think we'd be better off investing in better coaches for sports that underperform like LAX to take one ex, than making a marginal improvement in VB. I'm sure VB would improve with the extra 3 schoolies, just hard to see that the improvement would be so dramatic as to justify the investment when we could probably get much better results by allocating marginal funds elsewhere. I would agree with you that adding a few extra scholarships is not going to make Georgetown an "elite program" in the near term, if ever. I preface this comment with an admission that I know very little about other olympic sports and what it takes to build an "elite program" in those sports. It is my belief that Volleyball is a uniquely difficult sport to build an elite program. There are just too many schools playing and investing huge amounts of money. And breaking into that top group is extraordinarily difficult. Realistically, in any given year there is a very small group of schools that have a shot at the title, and they tend to come from three or four top conferences (Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12 and Big 12). And even within those conferences, there really are a very limited number of players (Nebraska, Stanford, Texas, Florida, Penn State, Minnesota, USC, Wisconsin, Kansas, Washington). More than any other sport I'm familiar with, it is a very small group at the top. As people who follow the Big East, we love to place Creighton in that group, but the fact of the matter is that despite a high ranking this year, it would be absolutely earth-shaking in NCAA VB if Creighton won the title. So, if your standard for increased (or even continued) funding for VB is getting into that elite group, then I suspect you'll never see value in Georgetown's expenditure on volleyball. There are a couple hundred teams that invest a lot of money in volleyball that, frankly, are not likely to ever get into that discussion. Within the last couple of years Notre Dame has shown a commitment to making that leap. They started with hiring one of the very best coaches around, and hiring another well-respected head coach to be his assistant. They have a national brand to draw recruits and are located near a lot of talent-rich areas. And, as we all know, they've got truck-loads of cash to spend on sports. It seems to be paying dividends. We'll see how it goes in the coming years. I think a Creighton-level success is likely ( i.e., occasional top 10 team, but still unlikely to be legitimately competing for a national championships), and perhaps they'll even exceed that. So, in my opinion, that's the level of investment that is necessary to be an "elite program." Candidly, I'm not sure that will ever happen at Georgetown. And if competing for national championships is the goal, I'm just not sure I see it. But, I'm not sure why that has to be the goal. I think it is a realistic goal for Georgetown to be in competition for the Big East championship regularly. And I think that is a perfectly worthy goal. And one that would likely bring NCAA tournament births as the Big East has been a multi-bid league lately. If this is the goal, I think additional scholarships absolutely could be justified because I think they could enable the Hoyas to reach this level. If, as others suggest, competing for national championships is the goal, then obviously additional scholarships are not justified because they would not meaningfully move Georgetown toward that goal. It's also worth noting that Georgetown is in a uniquely difficult situation for recruiting. Perhaps the same is true in other olympic sports but, as I stated above, I just don't know enough about those sports to know. Recruiting in volleyball is happening earlier and earlier, and that is a significant challenge for high academic schools. It works for Stanford because...well...they're Stanford. In volleyball, girls will wait for Stanford. As girls are increasingly committing in eighth and ninth grade, it's getting more and more difficult to recruit at a school where they want to see an athlete's ACT or SAT results and first semester grades from her junior year. There is already reported on a popular recruiting site that 325 girls in the class of 2019 have committed in volleyball ( i.e., recruited based upon their pre-junior year accomplishments and committing before coaches are even allowed to directly contact prospective student athletes). And the only ones listed there are those that reported to the site -- there are undoubtedly more. High academic schools have a difficult time competing for athletes in that environment because athletes (and their parents) who are being offered scholarships in freshman and sophomore year are afraid to wait it out until -- at earliest -- fall of their junior year. Personally, I'd like to see Georgetown competing for the Big East title on a regular basis. I think that this is an achievable goal. Frankly, in some respects, I don't think they are too far off at this point. But it is difficult to compete against programs that have rosters filled with a full complement of scholarship players. The margin for error is razor thin with reduced scholarships. I suspect that we'll probably have to agree to disagree whether increased (or even sustained) funding with an eye toward being competitive in volleyball is a worthy goal. I, obviously, think that it is. You think that spending that money on some less visible sports that might enable them to compete at an elite level is the better approach. I doubt either of us will persuade the other.
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Post by hoyawatcher on Sept 25, 2017 8:58:46 GMT -5
I found the link to watch Georgetown Volleyball yesterday and quite honestly wish I hadn't. That 5th set was beyond painful to watch. I don't know the rotations but I assume Eichie would have been in the middle when Providence went on their 9+ point run? Even with that in the 5th set you have to make the basic pass, basic swing, etc. and not just collapse. Their OH (#4 I think) for them became all world when she shouldn't have been nearly that effective. Especially when you knew everything was going through her. Just hard to watch and while I definitely have a soft spot in my heart for good middles it was a lot more than that.
I actually like Arlissa and want her to succeed but yesterday is the kind of match that really hurts her. While it is arguably the only real "bad" data point unfortunately there isn't a really positive "good" data point to offset it. That is really the challenge over the rest of the season. No more "bad" data and find a couple of "good" data points.
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Post by hilltophoya on Sept 25, 2017 10:13:07 GMT -5
I found the link to watch Georgetown Volleyball yesterday and quite honestly wish I hadn't. That 5th set was beyond painful to watch. I don't know the rotations but I assume Eichie would have been in the middle when Providence went on their 9+ point run? Even with that in the 5th set you have to make the basic pass, basic swing, etc. and not just collapse. Their OH (#4 I think) for them became all world when she shouldn't have been nearly that effective. Especially when you knew everything was going through her. Just hard to watch and while I definitely have a soft spot in my heart for good middles it was a lot more than that. I did not intend to suggest that Eichie's absence was the sole issue in that match; there were certainly others.
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Post by Toby2 on Sept 25, 2017 13:23:01 GMT -5
Seems a bit far fetched to think that a few extra spots would bring us from a very mediocre program to an elite program, ie. beating top 10 programs. --the staff has shown no ability to recruit impact players over the last decade, doubt it would change that much with a few extra sports. take a look at the top 20 recruiting classes from this past year: volleyballmag.com/2017-top-recruiting-classes/. Hard to see Gtwn in that mix. By way of comparison men's tennis with worse facilities and no schoolies pulled in a top 30 recruit this yr and has to recruit against all of our natural compeitors with better facilities , scholarships better league, history etc. Looking at the schools which generate top recruiting classes Duke, Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, Vandy, Har, Nwester, Stan etc.I would think we could compete for top recruits more consistently if we had scholarships--that's just one example of a program that at least has shown some promise with limited resources--i'd much rather invest in a program that has shown some good things with no resources versus one that has little to show for a decent resource investment over a long period of time. Even if we didn't increase funding for another sport, I think we'd be better off investing in better coaches for sports that underperform like LAX to take one ex, than making a marginal improvement in VB. I'm sure VB would improve with the extra 3 schoolies, just hard to see that the improvement would be so dramatic as to justify the investment when we could probably get much better results by allocating marginal funds elsewhere. Allow me to provide you with some education. Georgetown can absolutely pull in top notch recruits and you don't have to look any further than the junior class. Prepvolleyball ranked the current junior class of Hoyas as the #29 ranked class in the country. McKnight was ranked #97 and Speech was ranked #65 overall. Sinnette was also a top recruit. Prepvolleyball is the source for all things volleyball, in case you were unaware. The #29 ranking was ahead of most power 5 programs including: Alabama, Clemson, Colorado, Georgia, Kansas State, LSU, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, TCU, Texas A&M, Pitt, Indiana, Maryland, Missouri, NC State, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Wake Forest, Washington. 29. GEORGETOWN: Somto Egbuonu, 6-1 MB/RS, South Grand Prairie (Grand Prairie, Texas); Kenzie Higareda, 5-1 libero, Forest Park (Woodbridge, Virginia); Olivia King, 5-11 OH, Lower Merion (Ardmore, Pennsylvania); Paige McKnight 5-9 S, Dunwoody (Georgia); Alyssa Sinnette 5-11 OH, Dawson (Pearland, Texas); Symone Speech, 6-3 MB, Oak Park River Forest (Oak Park, Illinois) COMMENT: Head coach Arlisa Williams hopes that the Class of 2015 will signal a new era in Hoya volleyball. The class includes two Top 100 Senior Aces, three touching at least 10-0 and six expected to make an impact on the floor come fall. McKnight is the headliner. The Georgia Gatorade POY, and No. 97 in the Senior Aces, is a program changer at the setter position. She’s smart, smooth, athletic and plays full speed all the time. Speech, Senior Ace No. 65, brings height to the middle. A supreme blocker who is equal parts athletic and smart, Speech has all the tools and, more importantly, the desire to be great. Both Texans, Sinnette and Egbuonu, are high flyers with high ceilings. Sinnette is a smooth operator on the left, playing all six rotations and terminating from the front and back row. Egbuonu, converted from the middle, brings the blocking on the right side and will be hard to guard hitting first and second-tempo balls. Higareda has defense in her blood. This Defensive Dandy should see the floor immediately, either at libero or defensive specialist. King is the sleeper in the group. She is a solid all-around player and a high character person with the ability to impact on the floor as well as help the team culture.
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Post by Toby2 on Sept 25, 2017 13:33:59 GMT -5
Again, the limiting factor is 9 scholarships. The junior class had 6 recruits, I'm not sure how many are on schoarship but assuming they all were then that leaves 3 for the rest of the team. There is no way you can win at the conference, let alone the national level with 9 scholarships. 6 play on the floor, that leaves just 3 scholarships left. That's not enough to have a playing group of full scholarship kids. If someone gets hurt, like we saw the last few years and what we are seeing now with Eichie being out, you have no chance. You saw the ramifications this weekend vs. Providence. Down a scholarship MB, they did not have enough quality attackers to win. They have 2 OH that struggle with making unforced errors. They don't have any other scholarship players at the position, so they have to ride with what they have, even if they are having an off day. Volleyball is now the most popular sport for girls, surpassing basketball in the last couple of years. Its numbers continue to grow, it's the future of womens athletics. Go to ESPN3 and turn on the matches at Wisconsin, Minnesota, Penn State, Nebraska, Purdue, Creighton, Kansas, Texas, Washington etc and the venues are packed. 6k-8k fans out watching womens volleyball. The sooner Gtown gets with the times the better chance they have in being relevant in a sport that is increasingly becoming more popular. ESPN had a triple header for volleyball on their network on Sunday. The know whats happening.
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Post by hoyawatcher on Sept 25, 2017 13:49:21 GMT -5
I found the link to watch Georgetown Volleyball yesterday and quite honestly wish I hadn't. That 5th set was beyond painful to watch. I don't know the rotations but I assume Eichie would have been in the middle when Providence went on their 9+ point run? Even with that in the 5th set you have to make the basic pass, basic swing, etc. and not just collapse. Their OH (#4 I think) for them became all world when she shouldn't have been nearly that effective. Especially when you knew everything was going through her. Just hard to watch and while I definitely have a soft spot in my heart for good middles it was a lot more than that. I did not intend to suggest that Eichie's absence was the sole issue in that match; there were certainly others. My bad - didn't mean it as direct toward your post as it came out on re-read. As discussed in other posts, the limit of 9 ships means you don't have a plan B when someone goes down. It is a real issue. For the TEAM though, you have to be able to mentally fight through things when someone does go down. Got to be able to do the basics which we could not do.
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Post by Toby2 on Sept 29, 2017 20:14:23 GMT -5
Hoyas take down Butler in 5 sets tonight. Butler was picked by the Big East coaches to finish 2nd in conference. Butler has an RPI of 63, third in the Big East.
Hoyas showed some grit coming back from a 10-6 deficit in the fifth set to win 15-13.
Great night tonight in McDonough if you were in attendance.
Hoyas still struggle with their outside hitters, still way too many errors. If they can improve, the team has a chance to finish top four in conference and play in the Big East tournament.
Big win for the Hoyas tonight!
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Post by hoyawatcher on Sept 30, 2017 10:51:24 GMT -5
Wow - talk about your one week turnaround. I didn't look for the game last night and thought I would just look this AM to see how bad it was. Now I wish I had - as opposed to Providence. Beating Butler in 5 takes the kind of mental toughness I thought was missing then. Plus the middle came back. That helps immensely as well even though she didn't contribute a lot offensively.
That was the kind of positive data point they really needed. Cancels the Providence data point - though makes it even more frustrating at another level. Xavier tonight who lost to Villanova in 3. That now becomes a "must win" in the context that they need to avoid the bad data point. 6 PM game at Georgetown with the ability to take your girls to dinner after is a great night out.
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Post by hilltophoya on Sept 30, 2017 13:39:55 GMT -5
Wow - talk about your one week turnaround. I didn't look for the game last night and thought I would just look this AM to see how bad it was. Now I wish I had - as opposed to Providence. Beating Butler in 5 takes the kind of mental toughness I thought was missing then. Plus the middle came back. That helps immensely as well even though she didn't contribute a lot offensively. That was the kind of positive data point they really needed. Cancels the Providence data point - though makes it even more frustrating at another level. Xavier tonight who lost to Villanova in 3. That now becomes a "must win" in the context that they need to avoid the bad data point. 6 PM game at Georgetown with the ability to take your girls to dinner after is a great night out. It was definitely an exciting match. It's nice to see them finally get a win that helps show the progress that they've made. After a while, arguments about progress ring a little hollow if they don't show up on the scoreboard. I'll admit that when they were down 6-10 and then 10-13 in the fifth, I found myself thinking that moral victories just aren't got to cut it. I didn't lose hope, but it was looking pretty grim. Nice to see them go on a five point run to finish the match. And, the run included two kills, a block, an ace and only one Butler error. Butler didn't hand the win to the Hoyas -- they dug in and took it. A really nice win. So good to see that grit that they showed when the beat American in five. And I agree...it makes the loss to Providence all the more frustrating. Here's to seeing the Hoyas go out tonight and do it again against Xavier. Go Hoyas!
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Post by hoyawatcher on Oct 2, 2017 12:44:41 GMT -5
One step forward with Butler win, one step back with the Xavier loss. Frustrating to see potential on Friday and lack of follow up on Saturday.
I am beginning to think it is my fault. Left them alone on Friday (and they won) and then tried to follow along Saturday (and they lost).
Obviously didn't see Saturday so don't know what the issue was but they need to win the games they should win.
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Post by Toby2 on Oct 2, 2017 19:31:25 GMT -5
One step forward with Butler win, one step back with the Xavier loss. Frustrating to see potential on Friday and lack of follow up on Saturday. I am beginning to think it is my fault. Left them alone on Friday (and they won) and then tried to follow along Saturday (and they lost). Obviously didn't see Saturday so don't know what the issue was but they need to win the games they should win. Another error filled match by the hoyas. It continues to be errors out of the OH position with plenty of others chipping in with their own errors behind the service line. The box score says it all.
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Post by hoyawatcher on Oct 4, 2017 13:04:46 GMT -5
Seton Hall tonight. They took care of Providence and have a win over a low end Big 10 program (Rutgers). They also barely beat Buffalo who we barely lost to. If we are moving up the food chain this is the kind of relatively even match we need to win.
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Post by Toby2 on Oct 4, 2017 22:21:33 GMT -5
Seton Hall tonight. They took care of Providence and have a win over a low end Big 10 program (Rutgers). They also barely beat Buffalo who we barely lost to. If we are moving up the food chain this is the kind of relatively even match we need to win. Lost in 4. Disappointing, no doubt.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,600
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 5, 2017 8:34:01 GMT -5
At least they made SportsCenter Top 10!
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Post by hoyawatcher on Oct 5, 2017 9:34:05 GMT -5
That is indeed an impressive play. Wish there were more of them Last night was disappointing. Villanova will be a challenge this weekend. Need another positive data point.
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Post by Toby2 on Nov 18, 2017 22:39:47 GMT -5
2017 volleyball season has come to an end after another tough 5 set loss, this time to #13 ranked Creighton. Hoyas blew a 7-3 lead in the 5th set to lose 15-13.
I thought the team would progress this year after the core of the team became juniors. It appears they continue to make unforced errors that undermine their ability to pull out wins.
Sure would like to see the school fully fund the program as more and more schools in the Big East have begun to do. The program is woefully supported by the school. Sad to see.
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Post by Toby2 on Nov 18, 2017 22:41:37 GMT -5
Any idea why Gtown vball doesnt promote its new recruits when they sign on signing day? Other programs tweet out their recruits, issue a press release, something. Georgetown does nothing.
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