hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 24, 2020 15:25:41 GMT -5
We can't defend the 3 now. Playing zone without taller guards who can get to and affect the outside shot will just exacerbate that. I am not against it for a possession or two now and then as a change of pace, but we don't have the personnel to play it for stretches of time. We don’t have the personnel to play whatever defense we’re playing right now either. We’re the worst defensive team in the BE by a country mile. How could trying something new possibly make it worse?
Edit: Just to provide a couple numbers - we’re currently allowing 52.1% eFg% and just under 39% on 3s. These are horrid numbers. So again I say, how can a slight shift in personnel and defensive scheme possibly make it worse? We could be the worst by two country miles?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 24, 2020 15:47:23 GMT -5
Who sits Mac, Allen or Mosely? The one thing we don't have to worry about are guys getting frustrated because of sitting--any combination of the normal lineup with anyone from Allen, Mosely, or Mac getting a rest. Ok, but aren't we going to need to see it for more than just a few minutes at a time to see how effective it can be? What if the zone works well with the big lineup?
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 24, 2020 16:02:48 GMT -5
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 24, 2020 16:48:01 GMT -5
THere was a recent article on Brad Underwood with Illinois. Talked about how he completely changed his system due to how the game was being played, reffed, etc. This is what JTIII didn't do in time. I think Pat will adapt (I pray and I am not religious). The best coaches design systems to highlight their teams strengths and shield their weaknesses. I really hope we can turn the corner and use some zone, match up 1/3/1, or any other junk just to throw teams off a bit.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 24, 2020 16:53:05 GMT -5
THere was a recent article on Brad Underwood with Illinois. Talked about how he completely changed his system due to how the game was being played, reffed, etc. This is what JTIII didn't do in time. I think Pat will adapt (I pray and I am not religious). The best coaches design systems to highlight their teams strengths and shield their weaknesses. I really hope we can turn the corner and use some zone, match up 1/3/1, or any other junk just to throw teams off a bit. In a world where we had Pickett and LeBlanc on floor at same time I would've been very excited to see a 1-3-1 extended zone. Whenever Mack threw that at us when he was at Xavier it was such a bear. Pickett at the top and LeBlanc running the baseline to cover corners, Yurt7 doesn't have to move as much in the middle. A guy can dream
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 24, 2020 18:54:09 GMT -5
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 24, 2020 21:56:19 GMT -5
So why not give it a shot? I would think a zone with a back line of wahab yurt Pickett could be pretty effective. We can't defend the 3 now. Playing zone without taller guards who can get to and affect the outside shot will just exacerbate that. I am not against it for a possession or two now and then as a change of pace, but we don't have the personnel to play it for stretches of time. I agree with this in principle but the defense now is give up wide open 3’s and some baskets at the rim. We already rely on the other team to miss 3’s. With the zone we will still rely on them to miss 3’s but it should prevent some of the easy stuff and may help with the rebounding if it allows us to get 2 bigs on the floor. As most others are alluding to it’s hard to imagine it being worse.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 25, 2020 11:19:19 GMT -5
I read this a different way--I thought Ewing was saying that he has enough to worry about with how we are playing that he's not really worried about what other teams/players are doing defensively. "If we run our stuff well, let them try to stop us." Our offense has been good overall since defections, so I understand his point. However, when Xavier came out with something we didn't expect we didn't seem to have a Plan B. However, our only PG was also on the bench with 2 fouls during that stretch, too, which definitely exacerbated the problem. I hope this isn't his thought process, the team isn't talented enough to pull this off. Also makes me wonder if this is the philosophy on defense as well... As for the question seems to me he should be able to answer it without much thought considering the amount of game film he must watch to prepare the team for games right? Just got around to reading this article myself. It's a pretty damning quote, IMO. “It’s really hard to focus on that when you’re in the heat of the battle,” Ewing said. “There’s a lot of guys in the league that are very good defenders. We just played one of those teams last night. But when you’re in the struggle, I guess, or the battle, it’s hard to single out.” Begs the questions: are we using film study to identify where those strong defenders are and avoid getting ourselves in bad situations? Are we looking to try to exploit mismatches elsewhere? And conversely but related, are we trying to formulate a defensive gameplan to not only maximize what our guys can do defensively, but to try to slow down the other team's best player(s)? Our team often times looks prepared for what it wants to do. However, it doesn't look like it's prepared to understand what the other team wants to do. If we continue to focus merely on ourselves and not our opponents, that will be a huge red flag for me about the current program approach and whether or not this staff, as presently constructed, can succeed in the long term.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 25, 2020 12:06:00 GMT -5
We can't defend the 3 now. Playing zone without taller guards who can get to and affect the outside shot will just exacerbate that. I am not against it for a possession or two now and then as a change of pace, but we don't have the personnel to play it for stretches of time. I agree with this in principle but the defense now is give up wide open 3’s and some baskets at the rim. We already rely on the other team to miss 3’s. With the zone we will still rely on them to miss 3’s but it should prevent some of the easy stuff and may help with the rebounding if it allows us to get 2 bigs on the floor. As most others are alluding to it’s hard to imagine it being worse. I suppose that's true. But you need to really play as a unit in a zone with players rotating together. Hard to develop that late in the season. While it seems we can't be much worse on defense, I fear that we can!
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 25, 2020 12:26:27 GMT -5
I hope this isn't his thought process, the team isn't talented enough to pull this off. Also makes me wonder if this is the philosophy on defense as well... As for the question seems to me he should be able to answer it without much thought considering the amount of game film he must watch to prepare the team for games right? Just got around to reading this article myself. It's a pretty damning quote, IMO. “It’s really hard to focus on that when you’re in the heat of the battle,” Ewing said. “There’s a lot of guys in the league that are very good defenders. We just played one of those teams last night. But when you’re in the struggle, I guess, or the battle, it’s hard to single out.” Begs the questions: are we using film study to identify where those strong defenders are and avoid getting ourselves in bad situations? Are we looking to try to exploit mismatches elsewhere? And conversely but related, are we trying to formulate a defensive gameplan to not only maximize what our guys can do defensively, but to try to slow down the other team's best player(s)? Our team often times looks prepared for what it wants to do. However, it doesn't look like it's prepared to understand what the other team wants to do. If we continue to focus merely on ourselves and not our opponents, that will be a huge red flag for me about the current program approach and whether or not this staff, as presently constructed, can succeed in the long term. Sounds a lot like JT3...
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 26, 2020 13:56:28 GMT -5
I put this here because the post by Daniels is the message that PE should emphasize to kids, It's also the message that Wright sells @ Nova...
Forget the NBA/Pro talk work on getting better and winning...
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Jan 27, 2020 6:28:18 GMT -5
I hope this isn't his thought process, the team isn't talented enough to pull this off. Also makes me wonder if this is the philosophy on defense as well... As for the question seems to me he should be able to answer it without much thought considering the amount of game film he must watch to prepare the team for games right? Just got around to reading this article myself. It's a pretty damning quote, IMO. “It’s really hard to focus on that when you’re in the heat of the battle,” Ewing said. “There’s a lot of guys in the league that are very good defenders. We just played one of those teams last night. But when you’re in the struggle, I guess, or the battle, it’s hard to single out.” Begs the questions: are we using film study to identify where those strong defenders are and avoid getting ourselves in bad situations? Are we looking to try to exploit mismatches elsewhere? And conversely but related, are we trying to formulate a defensive gameplan to not only maximize what our guys can do defensively, but to try to slow down the other team's best player(s)? Our team often times looks prepared for what it wants to do. However, it doesn't look like it's prepared to understand what the other team wants to do. If we continue to focus merely on ourselves and not our opponents, that will be a huge red flag for me about the current program approach and whether or not this staff, as presently constructed, can succeed in the long term. Agree that this sounds like JT3 criticism. Spending too much time working on Princetown offense with the thought that if we run our stuff well we will always succeed. Without enough time spent on planning for your opponent.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 27, 2020 10:00:51 GMT -5
I agree with this in principle but the defense now is give up wide open 3’s and some baskets at the rim. We already rely on the other team to miss 3’s. With the zone we will still rely on them to miss 3’s but it should prevent some of the easy stuff and may help with the rebounding if it allows us to get 2 bigs on the floor. As most others are alluding to it’s hard to imagine it being worse. I suppose that's true. But you need to really play as a unit in a zone with players rotating together. Hard to develop that late in the season. While it seems we can't be much worse on defense, I fear that we can! Syracuse is obviously the classic case that proves this point. When we played them they were awful. We easily picked apart their 2-3 zone. In fact most Cuse fans at the game admitted this would be a rebuilding year. But you can see how much better that zone has become as the year goes on. They still lack the players to compete nationally but they have really improved that 2-3 zone and it has made them competitive as the season progresses.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 27, 2020 10:38:27 GMT -5
For me a lot of the zone discussion ignores what's really needed from the wing players. While it's a 2-3, the bottom wings have to be able to quickly rotate out to the 3 point line and then recover back. Asking Wahab to do that is very difficult.
Pickett and LeBlanc are great examples of the players to put there, Wahab isn't really IMO. I don't think it's a magic elixir to get Yurt7 and Wahab to play together. And asking Mosely to be on the bottom and be responsible for weakside rebounding by himself is tough.
I do think it's perfectly fair criticism to say over 3 years we haven't tried to switch schemes enough during games. It's not like Ewing deployed a 2-3 in the beginning of the season before the transfers. But at this point, with the 7 man rotation, there isn't a great zone lineup available.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 27, 2020 13:21:00 GMT -5
My main reason for trying the zone would simply be that the man to man we use regularly doesn't perform well, and the defense on threes is particularly bad. The last time we deployed a zone offense well (2012 and 2013) seasons, we definitely had more size with Porter, Hopkins, Lubick, and Trawick (and in 2012, Whittington, Hollis Thompson, and Sims).
I think there's a very good chance that if we try a 2-3 zone it'll do no better, maybe worse, than what we are doing now, but it might help on foul trouble and may be better for our guy's stamina too. So, it's probably worth a try even if the odds are long that it'll help.
Ultimately, I think the problem is that our guys are awful at rotating and helping, and I think a zone would like exacerbate a lot of those problems.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 27, 2020 19:06:16 GMT -5
For me a lot of the zone discussion ignores what's really needed from the wing players. While it's a 2-3, the bottom wings have to be able to quickly rotate out to the 3 point line and then recover back. Asking Wahab to do that is very difficult. Pickett and LeBlanc are great examples of the players to put there, Wahab isn't really IMO. I don't think it's a magic elixir to get Yurt7 and Wahab to play together. And asking Mosely to be on the bottom and be responsible for weakside rebounding by himself is tough. I do think it's perfectly fair criticism to say over 3 years we haven't tried to switch schemes enough during games. It's not like Ewing deployed a 2-3 in the beginning of the season before the transfers. But at this point, with the 7 man rotation, there isn't a great zone lineup available. Disagree strongly. I think wahab has shown the agility and athleticism to make the zone rotations. As others have said, just TRY something different. Our defense is absolutely abhorrent. What we’re doing is not working.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 28, 2020 7:35:44 GMT -5
For me a lot of the zone discussion ignores what's really needed from the wing players. While it's a 2-3, the bottom wings have to be able to quickly rotate out to the 3 point line and then recover back. Asking Wahab to do that is very difficult. Pickett and LeBlanc are great examples of the players to put there, Wahab isn't really IMO. I don't think it's a magic elixir to get Yurt7 and Wahab to play together. And asking Mosely to be on the bottom and be responsible for weakside rebounding by himself is tough. I do think it's perfectly fair criticism to say over 3 years we haven't tried to switch schemes enough during games. It's not like Ewing deployed a 2-3 in the beginning of the season before the transfers. But at this point, with the 7 man rotation, there isn't a great zone lineup available. Disagree strongly. I think wahab has shown the agility and athleticism to make the zone rotations. As others have said, just TRY something different. Our defense is absolutely abhorrent. What we’re doing is not working. I'm cherry picking here with the highlights below, but I just haven't seen this yet. The two games where I could think of examples are below. Wahab has been one of the few bright spots, I just don't see him guarding the 3 pt line. And I realize good defensive rotations don't make the highlight reels, but I just don't know where we've seen him do what's required in a zone. Providence game: 2:30 mark, one of the few times Yurt7 and Wahab on the court together in a 2-3 zone. Wahab fails to rotate out in time, uncontested 3 on the wing Nova game; 5:50 mark. Has to close out on JRE and gets blown by for a layup
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Post by wponds on Jan 28, 2020 22:40:39 GMT -5
Yet again, defense needs to be addressed
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 28, 2020 23:30:04 GMT -5
Pickett’s inability to develop into a reliable offensive option has really hurt the program. I hope he can up his game.
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Jan 28, 2020 23:47:17 GMT -5
Pickett’s inability to develop into a reliable offensive option has really hurt the program. I hope he can up his game. I think this was posted last year at this time. And maybe the year before as well.
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