iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jun 17, 2017 14:22:08 GMT -5
Being the nostalgic type, I actually think it's still possible for PE to build the program in a manner somewhat similar to Pops. And that may well be the way to go. Essentially forget the national five stars and one and dones unless somebody bangs on your door (at least for awhile), go mostly local, and find the hard-nosed kids with some four year talent who aren't being chased by the big programs and who will play D.
I'm not the first to suggest that route here, but I'd prefer to see an identity built around toughness and then move up in class in recruiting to snag those one or two guys that make you a tourney factor. IMO, III largely recruited "soft," if talented, players that led to underachieving. I can live with some bumps (and some issues on offense) under PE as long as we reflect what he was as a player--somebody who gives at least as good as he gets.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 17, 2017 15:33:30 GMT -5
I think Patrick would be great in the role that Big John has been occupying since I was in school. Overseer. There are few better schooled in playing for a program on a downward swing and he has a solid coaching career to boot but he's also okay with deferring to others when the situation warrants it. I wouldn't be completely shocked if we all look back at this thread in a few years and joke about how stupid we were for wondering how Patrick would do as a HC. It remains to be seen but he's got the knowledge and the personality to be a very good coach on the pro level. But college is a different animal. Fingers crossed. The Mullin comparison is current but I'm just as concerned about whether Ewing is the next Clyde Drexler. The Glide thought he could sell his knowledge of the game and 10-time NBA All-Star credentials to recruits, but that only goes so far. Eddie Fogler once said that "only about 25 percent of this job is coaching. The other 75 percent is running a staff, recruiting, scheduling, media obligations, alumni functions, speaking engagements, putting out fires." Don't underestimate the staff development. Clearly, Ewing was going with "best available" with his hires, but neither Orr nor Kirby are up and comers. Their growth, if that's possible for a staff entering the season at 55 (Ewing), 57 (Kirby) and 59 (Orr), will shine the light as to whether the program is going the direction of Oregon, or merely Houston.
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professorhoya
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 17, 2017 17:25:37 GMT -5
I think Patrick would be great in the role that Big John has been occupying since I was in school. Overseer. There are few better schooled in playing for a program on a downward swing and he has a solid coaching career to boot but he's also okay with deferring to others when the situation warrants it. I wouldn't be completely shocked if we all look back at this thread in a few years and joke about how stupid we were for wondering how Patrick would do as a HC. It remains to be seen but he's got the knowledge and the personality to be a very good coach on the pro level. But college is a different animal. Fingers crossed. The Mullin comparison is current but I'm just as concerned about whether Ewing is the next Clyde Drexler. The Glide thought he could sell his knowledge of the game and 10-time NBA All-Star credentials to recruits, but that only goes so far. Eddie Fogler once said that "only about 25 percent of this job is coaching. The other 75 percent is running a staff, recruiting, scheduling, media obligations, alumni functions, speaking engagements, putting out fires." Don't underestimate the staff development. Clearly, Ewing was going with "best available" with his hires, but neither Orr nor Kirby are up and comers. Their growth, if that's possible for a staff entering the season at 55 (Ewing), 57 (Kirby) and 59 (Orr), will shine the light as to whether the program is going the direction of Oregon, or merely Houston. Why would you compare someone with zero coaching experience and just retired from the NBA to someone who has 14 years of coaching experience.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 17, 2017 17:54:28 GMT -5
Being the nostalgic type, I actually think it's still possible for PE to build the program in a manner somewhat similar to Pops. And that may well be the way to go. Essentially forget the national five stars and one and dones unless somebody bangs on your door (at least for awhile), go mostly local, and find the hard-nosed kids with some four year talent who aren't being chased by the big programs and who will play D. I'm not the first to suggest that route here, but I'd prefer to see an identity built around toughness and then move up in class in recruiting to snag those one or two guys that make you a tourney factor. IMO, III largely recruited "soft," if talented, players that led to underachieving. I can live with some bumps (and some issues on offense) under PE as long as we reflect what he was as a player--somebody who gives at least as good as he gets. Sounds like Huggins's approach at WVU except Ewing should be able to recruit talent from the DMV. www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/1/31/14446884/west-virginia-basketball-recruiting-press-defense-turnovers
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 17, 2017 19:02:11 GMT -5
Why would you compare someone with zero coaching experience and just retired from the NBA to someone who has 14 years of coaching experience. Because I don't compare the work of an assistant coach position at the NBA with a head coach at the college level--it's a different role. If NBA tenure was a valuable commodity for a college coach, names like Tony Brown and Jim Boylan would be candidates for lots of open college positions, which they are not. Closer to the Big East, there's Ed Pinckney. A contemporary of Ewing, he has 12 years experience as a player, and 11 as an NBA assistant. Would Villanova hire him to succeed Jay Wright? Probably not, but his four years as an assistant coach on the Nova bench might play a role, because at least he's been on a college staff, which is wholly different from the NBA. Ewing comes with no collegiate experience as a coach which, like any coach with experience at another level of a sport, is a marked change. That's not to say he can't succeed, only that the life of an NBA assistant is not a preparatory career to college head coaching.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 17, 2017 21:52:58 GMT -5
Regardless of background, there are not many coaches that are consistently successful. Patrick, having been one of the best college players and one of the best pro players, coupled with his years of experience in an assistant role has to work in his favor in terms of his odds of success.
I worry less about his X's and O's than about his recruiting (that includes his staff). Everyone knows who the top kids are every year and, especially in our current state, Georgetown is a more difficult sell than at other times in the past. The wild card is the ability to identify talented guys who fit that may be a bit under the radar. That's a rare skill/strength that not many programs have. If Patrick or his staff have that ability, we'll be okay sooner than later. If not? Well...
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Jun 17, 2017 22:56:03 GMT -5
Not sucking next year will go a long way...but that's obvious.
I have a hard time seeing all the question marks about Pat and the administration to see a reason for hope. I'm not going to stop rooting for the Hoyas with my heart and wallet but the size of both has taken a huge hit. This feels so similar to when we hype incoming recruits as program changers only to realize they can't change the program they can only do what they can do, which is on the court.
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Jun 17, 2017 23:01:20 GMT -5
I'm double posting but I forgot to mention I want to see innovation and change at the AD level. Why aren't more programs doing what Mark Hollis does at MSU? It is not rocket science. Makes me frustrated at academia. I don't want a sports machine I just want effort and innovation.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 18, 2017 0:21:40 GMT -5
Why would you compare someone with zero coaching experience and just retired from the NBA to someone who has 14 years of coaching experience. Because I don't compare the work of an assistant coach position at the NBA with a head coach at the college level--it's a different role. If NBA tenure was a valuable commodity for a college coach, names like Tony Brown and Jim Boylan would be candidates for lots of open college positions, which they are not. Closer to the Big East, there's Ed Pinckney. A contemporary of Ewing, he has 12 years experience as a player, and 11 as an NBA assistant. Would Villanova hire him to succeed Jay Wright? Probably not, but his four years as an assistant coach on the Nova bench might play a role, because at least he's been on a college staff, which is wholly different from the NBA. Ewing comes with no collegiate experience as a coach which, like any coach with experience at another level of a sport, is a marked change. That's not to say he can't succeed, only that the life of an NBA assistant is not a preparatory career to college head coaching. Clyde Drexler is an awful comparison because the guy basically mailed it in, and that's not good enough to succeed at the collegiate coaching level. In contrast, we know Ewing is a hard working individual and while the NBA coaching doesn't necessarily translate, the fact that he worked for 15 years as an NBA assistant when he didn't have to shows some commitment to hard work - something Drexler didn't have. That doesn't mean Ewing will succeed, but I'm not worried that he won't work hard at it like Drexler.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 18, 2017 9:01:20 GMT -5
I'm double posting but I forgot to mention I want to see innovation and change at the AD level. Why aren't more programs doing what Mark Hollis does at MSU? It is not rocket science. Makes me frustrated at academia. I don't want a sports machine I just want effort and innovation. For those less familiar with Hollis, could you provide some examples for discussion? He's been taking some heat recently in the press over some off the field issues but Michigan State does a lot of things very well.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jun 18, 2017 10:57:43 GMT -5
Why would you compare someone with zero coaching experience and just retired from the NBA to someone who has 14 years of coaching experience. Because I don't compare the work of an assistant coach position at the NBA with a head coach at the college level--it's a different role. If NBA tenure was a valuable commodity for a college coach, names like Tony Brown and Jim Boylan would be candidates for lots of open college positions, which they are not. Closer to the Big East, there's Ed Pinckney. A contemporary of Ewing, he has 12 years experience as a player, and 11 as an NBA assistant. Would Villanova hire him to succeed Jay Wright? Probably not, but his four years as an assistant coach on the Nova bench might play a role, because at least he's been on a college staff, which is wholly different from the NBA. Ewing comes with no collegiate experience as a coach which, like any coach with experience at another level of a sport, is a marked change. That's not to say he can't succeed, only that the life of an NBA assistant is not a preparatory career to college head coaching. While I don't disagree that NBA success as a player coupled with experience as an assistant is no guarantee of college success, especially given the inexperience with recruiting, I think there is one positive attribute Patrick can sell to recruits that we tend to downplay - he knows, both as a player AND a coach, not only what it takes to GET to the NBA, but what it takes to succeed and improve at that level.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Jun 18, 2017 15:53:15 GMT -5
Why not got a taste of real games before questioning and doubting Coach Ewing's ability. These posts are really all so pessimistic. He's in it to win! Maybe prospects want to see what the style of play will be.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 19, 2017 8:52:45 GMT -5
St. Johns has an elite camp too..
Although the St. John’s Elite Camp was postponed due to facilities issues, Mullin and company will host a slew of big-time recruits beginning Wednesday.
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Jun 19, 2017 17:05:37 GMT -5
I'm double posting but I forgot to mention I want to see innovation and change at the AD level. Why aren't more programs doing what Mark Hollis does at MSU? It is not rocket science. Makes me frustrated at academia. I don't want a sports machine I just want effort and innovation. For those less familiar with Hollis, could you provide some examples for discussion? He's been taking some heat recently in the press over some off the field issues but Michigan State does a lot of things very well. I think this article does a good job but in short some of the things Mark Hollis is responsible for includes the creation of the Carrier Classic, PK80, BasketBowl (including the raised floor design), and in December 2018 a four team event across three cities over eight days. Also, from everything I hear is very connected. Responds personally and in a timely manner to emails, tweets, written letters etc.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 19, 2017 21:54:06 GMT -5
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 20, 2017 17:31:29 GMT -5
This is how a program with a new coach should bring in new assistants..
The administration @ Butler gets it..
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 23, 2017 11:25:38 GMT -5
PC hosts an Elite camp too..
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Post by HometownHoya on Jun 23, 2017 11:59:01 GMT -5
This is the first year I've heard of these elite camps. How do these fit in with recruiting? I assume they're "unofficial" visits and the player is paying their own way??
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 27, 2017 18:53:06 GMT -5
This is the first year I've heard of these elite camps. How do these fit in with recruiting? I assume they're "unofficial" visits and the player is paying their own way?? Theses camps have been around for a number of years now.. I'm not exactly sure what the ins & outs are but this off-season I've seen Nova, St. John's, Creighton & PC put out information about their events.. Here's a clip of Cooley working with 2 of the top kids in New England @ his camp.. Why wouldn't Gtown want to get involved, seems like a win/win..
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 27, 2017 19:43:49 GMT -5
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