prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 29, 2024 10:37:53 GMT -5
The defensive end keeps him from having significant value for longer stretches though, unfortunately. You keep saying this. Let me ask you, do you think Epps will play the same way next year as he did last/this year? Note: I’m not addressing any rumors re: Cook.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 29, 2024 10:55:27 GMT -5
Exactly, UNC will be at minimum a top 15 team next season without Ingram coming back. Why would Cliff O care about that? Exactly. It depends on what Cliff O values most. I haven’t looked at UNC’s roster, but if it’s stronger than ours UNC might not have that much NIL$ remaining for Cliff O. Then, he will have to consider what he values most: making the NCAAT and less NIL$ with UNC or more NIL$ with GU and a long shot at the NCAAT. To be clear, I think we’re a NCAAT team with him and one more scholarship player (big or shooter).
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 29, 2024 11:04:36 GMT -5
You have to be in the portal by May 1st ,right? So it makes sense to get in the portal and then see how things play out I have thought about this before--theoretically, it would behoove everybody in Division 1 to enter the portal to keep their options open. But obviously, there are practical problems with that (i.e., angering coaches, actually wanting to stay at your home school, losing out on NIL because of your antics, etc.). There has to be some effective end to the period when players can commit, though, because in-season transfers aren't allowed without sitting. But here's a question. Let's say Player A PG goes into the portal before May 1. He fashions himself as a high major player, but nobody else does. He's left without a home and decides not to play. In November the same year, High Major Team X's PG has a massive injury, and will be out the whole season. Can Player A transfer into High Major Team X in November and play immediately? I would assume not if Player A is enrolled at another college that semester. But what if he's not in college at all?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 29, 2024 11:09:34 GMT -5
The defensive end keeps him from having significant value for longer stretches though, unfortunately. You keep saying this. Let me ask you, do you think Epps will play the same way next year as he did last/this year? Note: I’m not addressing any rumors re: Cook. I used both my eyeballs and statistics. My eyeballs say that Cook has very poor defensive instincts, and very poor at help defense. Statistics also show that our rim defense was 362 out of 362. Of course, I do not blame Cook solely for that, but by the end of the season, our rim defense and overall defense was much stronger with Fielder than Cook--a pretty good indication that Cook was a very weak defensive player, particularly at the rim and in helping. As others like SFHoya99 have put it more eloquently than I can, it is unrealistic to expect guards to never get beat. It happens all the time on the best college teams, and that's why you need help defense. So, in that respect, Cook's rim defense is significantly more important than Epps' defending guards. No matter who our guards are, they are going to get beaten, and we will need help defense to get stops. Cook showed this past year that he cannot do that. For example, there were times when Epps got beat, and there just was no help defense because Cook failed to notice or rotate. Not that Fielder was great either, but his rotations and help defense were much better, particularly by the end of the season (plus he was a freshman and Cook was senior, so there's reason to expect Fielder to get better). As for Epps, I do not think his on ball defense is nearly as bad as people say it is. His off-ball defense is bad, and his turnovers are bad. He's not a great defender, either, but his weaknesses on defense are less central to the number one problem facing our defense last year. You simply cannot give up as many points at the rim and expect to win, and Cook was a major part in allowing that to happen. Will Epps play differently this year on defense (I assume this is your question)? I don't know. Generally, I think if Epps plays more off-ball himself because of Mack and he is surrounded by better defenders (Peavy, for example, and Omoruyi if he comes, and Sorber), he very well might play better. The thing about Epps' issues (particularly on offense) is that they aren't inherent to his ability. For example, if he's off ball and is more conscious of passing, he can use less possessions. With Cook, the defense is what it is. It's not a matter of instruction. He just cannot do it. Lastly, when I saw Cook play in person, it really hit me hard that the guy just had bad instincts on defense. It's less easy to see in person, but it was very evident in person. I do not live in DC so I can only get to limited games, but my friend does and attended many games, and noticed the same thing.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 29, 2024 11:14:49 GMT -5
You keep saying this. Let me ask you, do you think Epps will play the same way next year as he did last/this year? Note: I’m not addressing any rumors re: Cook. I used both my eyeballs and statistics. My eyeballs say that Cook has very poor defensive instincts, and very poor at help defense. Statistics also show that our rim defense was 362 out of 362. Of course, I do not blame Cook solely for that, but by the end of the season, our rim defense and overall defense was much stronger with Fielder than Cook--a pretty good indication that Cook was a very weak defensive player, particularly at the rim and in helping. As others like SFHoya99 have put it more eloquently than I can, it is unrealistic to expect guards to never get beat. It happens all the time on the best college teams, and that's why you need help defense. So, in that respect, Cook's rim defense is significantly more important than Epps'. No matter who our guards are, they are going to get beaten, and we will need help defense to get stops. Cook showed this past year that he cannot do that. For example, there were times when Epps got beat, and there just was no help defense because Cook failed to notice or rotate. Not that Fielder was great either, but his rotations and help defense were much better, particularly by the end of the season (plus he was a freshman and Cook was senior, so there's reason to expect Fielder to get better). As for Epps, I do not think his on ball defense is nearly as bad as people say it is. His off-ball defense is bad, and his turnovers are bad. He's not a great defender, either, but his weaknesses on defense are less central to the number one problem facing our defense last year. You simply cannot give up as many points at the rim and expect to win, and Cook was a major part in allowing that to happen. You didn’t answer my question. Again, do you think Epps will play the same way next year as he did last/this year?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 29, 2024 11:15:43 GMT -5
I used both my eyeballs and statistics. My eyeballs say that Cook has very poor defensive instincts, and very poor at help defense. Statistics also show that our rim defense was 362 out of 362. Of course, I do not blame Cook solely for that, but by the end of the season, our rim defense and overall defense was much stronger with Fielder than Cook--a pretty good indication that Cook was a very weak defensive player, particularly at the rim and in helping. As others like SFHoya99 have put it more eloquently than I can, it is unrealistic to expect guards to never get beat. It happens all the time on the best college teams, and that's why you need help defense. So, in that respect, Cook's rim defense is significantly more important than Epps'. No matter who our guards are, they are going to get beaten, and we will need help defense to get stops. Cook showed this past year that he cannot do that. For example, there were times when Epps got beat, and there just was no help defense because Cook failed to notice or rotate. Not that Fielder was great either, but his rotations and help defense were much better, particularly by the end of the season (plus he was a freshman and Cook was senior, so there's reason to expect Fielder to get better). As for Epps, I do not think his on ball defense is nearly as bad as people say it is. His off-ball defense is bad, and his turnovers are bad. He's not a great defender, either, but his weaknesses on defense are less central to the number one problem facing our defense last year. You simply cannot give up as many points at the rim and expect to win, and Cook was a major part in allowing that to happen. You didn’t answer my question. Again, do you think Epps will play the same way next year as he did last/this year? I actually realized that after I hit Create Post, and so edited to add it. You were just too quick to the draw for me to do it and have it go unnoticed.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 29, 2024 11:22:50 GMT -5
You didn’t answer my question. Again, do you think Epps will play the same way next year as he did last/this year? I actually realized that after I hit Create Post, and so edited to add it. You were just too quick to the draw for me to do it and have it go unnoticed. Ja! No, my question is not about defense & Epps, etc… To be clear, I’ll ask it another way: do you think Epps can change his ways with coaching and depending on the roster around him? Epps played like Primo a lot and we cannot expect to have a winning team playing like that. Do you think Epps will play like that again this year?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 29, 2024 11:31:38 GMT -5
Exactly, UNC will be at minimum a top 15 team next season without Ingram coming back. Why would Cliff O care about that? Because he's a competitor
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 29, 2024 11:33:22 GMT -5
Why would Cliff O care about that? Because he's a competitor So you think he cares about being "a competitor" more than making as much money as possible his final year in college? Based on what evidence would you make this claim?
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 29, 2024 11:42:50 GMT -5
I know the staff is heavy on CO & Awaka and that there have been rumors about Sean Stewart being a possibility but who are the other recruits the staff is targeting right now? There are still 4 spots to fill counting RM as coming back 3 if RM returns Good timing - RM in the portal as of today.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 29, 2024 11:43:15 GMT -5
Why would Cliff O care about that? Exactly. It depends on what Cliff O values most. I haven’t looked at UNC’s roster, but if it’s stronger than ours UNC might not have that much NIL$ remaining for Cliff O. Then, he will have to consider what he values most: making the NCAAT and less NIL$ with UNC or more NIL$ with GU and a long shot at the NCAAT. To be clear, I think we’re a NCAAT team with him and one more scholarship player (big or shooter). I think folks overplay the NIL factor especially when it comes to programs. My guess would be UNC has whatever it needs NIL money-wise. However, if you want to count dollars they haven't brought in anyone to replace the large sum Bacot isn't getting anymore so I think it's safe to assume they won't have to cut anyone to make the budget
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 29, 2024 11:45:20 GMT -5
Exactly. It depends on what Cliff O values most. I haven’t looked at UNC’s roster, but if it’s stronger than ours UNC might not have that much NIL$ remaining for Cliff O. Then, he will have to consider what he values most: making the NCAAT and less NIL$ with UNC or more NIL$ with GU and a long shot at the NCAAT. To be clear, I think we’re a NCAAT team with him and one more scholarship player (big or shooter). I think folks overplay the NIL factor especially when it comes to programs. My guess would be UNC has whatever it needs NIL money-wise. However, if you want to count dollars they haven't brought in anyone to replace the large sum Bacot isn't getting anymore so I think it's safe to assume they won't have to cut anyone to make the budget You don't think RJ Davis got a significant pay raise to come back for another year?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 29, 2024 11:46:33 GMT -5
Because he's a competitor So you think he cares about being "a competitor" more than making as much money as possible his final year in college? Based on what evidence would you make this claim? My opinion is that the offers he's getting aren't far off dollars wise so now it comes down to other factors in his final decision. He wouldn't be making visits if the money situation wasn't clear imho.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 29, 2024 11:48:10 GMT -5
I think folks overplay the NIL factor especially when it comes to programs. My guess would be UNC has whatever it needs NIL money-wise. However, if you want to count dollars they haven't brought in anyone to replace the large sum Bacot isn't getting anymore so I think it's safe to assume they won't have to cut anyone to make the budget You don't think RJ Davis got a significant pay raise to come back for another year? I'm sure they gave him a bump but I also think they had already figured this into their budget long before the season ended. Same goes for all their returning rotation players.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 29, 2024 11:49:10 GMT -5
So you think he cares about being "a competitor" more than making as much money as possible his final year in college? Based on what evidence would you make this claim? My opinion is that the offers he's getting aren't far off dollars wise so now it comes down to other factors in his final decision. He wouldn't be making visits if the money situation wasn't clear imho. Agree to disagree, I guess. Right after he visited Georgetown, the Hoyas started recruiting the Tennessee kid and the Kentucky kid. Right after he visited Alabama, the Crimson Tide started getting crystal balls for the Kentucky kid. To me, it looks like Cliff goes and visits a campus, makes a large NIL demand, doesn't commit, and the program he just visited tries to pivot as quickly as possible.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 29, 2024 11:50:10 GMT -5
Exactly. It depends on what Cliff O values most. I haven’t looked at UNC’s roster, but if it’s stronger than ours UNC might not have that much NIL$ remaining for Cliff O. Then, he will have to consider what he values most: making the NCAAT and less NIL$ with UNC or more NIL$ with GU and a long shot at the NCAAT. To be clear, I think we’re a NCAAT team with him and one more scholarship player (big or shooter). I think folks overplay the NIL factor especially when it comes to programs. My guess would be UNC has whatever it needs NIL money-wise. However, if you want to count dollars they haven't brought in anyone to replace the large sum Bacot isn't getting anymore so I think it's safe to assume they won't have to cut anyone to make the budget A lot of assumptions back and forth… but the question remains: what is more important to Cliff O?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 29, 2024 11:55:57 GMT -5
My opinion is that the offers he's getting aren't far off dollars wise so now it comes down to other factors in his final decision. He wouldn't be making visits if the money situation wasn't clear imho. Agree to disagree, I guess. Right after he visited Georgetown, the Hoyas started recruiting the Tennessee kid and the Kentucky kid. Right after he visited Alabama, the Crimson Tide started getting crystal balls for the Kentucky kid. To me, it looks like Cliff goes and visits a campus, makes a large NIL demand, doesn't commit, and the program he just visited tries to pivot as quickly as possible. Why wouldn’t these programs continue to recruit other players when their man target hasn’t said yes, even more to the point makes it clear he’s going to visit other teams?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 29, 2024 11:57:55 GMT -5
I actually realized that after I hit Create Post, and so edited to add it. You were just too quick to the draw for me to do it and have it go unnoticed. Ja! No, my question is not about defense & Epps, etc… To be clear, I’ll ask it another way: do you think Epps can change his ways with coaching and depending on the roster around him? Epps played like Primo a lot and we cannot expect to have a winning team playing like that. Do you think Epps will play like that again this year? Got it, I understand. This has nothing to do with transfers, so I'll respond in the 2024 Hoya Offseason thread in a little bit when that pesky old work thing doesn't interfere with what is really important.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Apr 29, 2024 12:04:14 GMT -5
I think the issue with giving Cliff O his number, hopefully no-one else does, is if you give him >1M then Epps next summer is gonna ask for the same and anyone else who might think highly of themselves which is their right to ask but can cause discord. You have to stave off the rapid inflation that might occur in demands for as long as possible. Which is why I am a fan of, at least for just this freshman class, to take so many young players as they can grow much cheaper and a lot seem to have potential which is good budget wise.
So with the news that Awaka is at Arizona st and Cliff has other schools to tour, fingers crossed, but the staff needs to be working on others. And again I like Cook for how hard he worked, but he should not be our starter in the Fall honestly.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Apr 29, 2024 12:06:20 GMT -5
Bleacher Report just pushed a notification saying something about the Bama coach teasing that Cliff has possibly committed...I did not see the exact post or what was stated...so I have no details beyond that or even know the accuracy...
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