hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 30, 2017 13:54:31 GMT -5
Can someone tell me why Crean is disliked on this board? I always thought he was a good coach. 'Cause he's creepy.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 30, 2017 13:57:09 GMT -5
The Board knows what it's doing. And it knew JT3 was done here. If the Board knew what they were doing, and knew JT3 was done here, they should have fired him on March 9, after we lost at the BET or shortly thereafter. Waiting until March 23 tells me they didn't know what they were doing; or at the very least, it wasn't a unanimous decision (which seems to be the case). I am not trying to debate the merits. Whether he should have been fired is moot; I am saying that I am disappointed the decision wasn't made more quickly, and the firing and the search wasn't handled more promptly, like just about every other major school that fires their coach and then makes a new hire. As you well know there were impediments to getting it done quickly Don't be obtuse. Indiana took 9 days to hire a new coach. They had the best job available. It's been a week since JT3 was mercifully released. Your narrative of an aimless Board conducting a haphazard search doesn't hold up.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 30, 2017 14:00:23 GMT -5
This reminds me of some speaking to how little Georgetown's heyday means to current student "fans", even to the extent that they shouldn't be expected to respect JTIII for his earlier successes. One wonders why, when it comes to a fan base that, when they're not thinking about their BBall team, are in basements being tortured with the Socratic Method by Jesuit Professors, and various other things that occurred hundreds and thousands of years ago, somehow can't be expected to understand what JTIII and his Pops represent to Georgetown Basketball. Ah well. Disagree strongly with the notion that Georgetown no longer has it's unique brand, which was still acknowledged, thanks in no small part to the throwback qualities of one Mr. Trawick, a mere two years ago. Not saying our new coach merely needs to throw a towel over his shoulder, but there are a lot of people following basketball who are 40 plus years old, including probably most of our potential coaches, not a one of them doesn't understand what Georgetown Basketball stood for, and what is waiting a massive resurgence. I don't think it's that the "heydey" means less to current student "fans," as much as the fact that it was 30+ years ago, and when you haven't lived through it, it's less meaningful. I attended Georgetown from 1999-2003 and was aware of the history of the program (though admittedly not as much of a basketball fan back then), but even back then the program wasn't all that big on campus, especially since we largely stunk under Esherick. And back then, we weren't even that far away from the good Iverson teams. This is even more true when you're talking about the off-court cultural impact that Georgetown had in the 1980s. Back then, having a strong African-American coach at the helm of winning basketball program was a huge deal because it was unique. And that's part of the reason it was such a cultural phenomenon. John Thompson Jr. was a trailblazer, and he was so successful in leading the way, that now there are many African-American coaches. So in that respect, we aren't "unique" anymore simply because culture, society, and college basketball has changed so much over the years. But, you sort of pinpoint the problem: you mention people 40+. Those are the people who remember the "heyday" as you call it. Next year's college freshman will have been born in 2000. Think about that.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 30, 2017 14:00:57 GMT -5
Why is the trajectory of the program not an issue with JTIII? I honestly do not get it. He was not terminated because he had only a .653 winning percentage. Crean was canned at 18-16, one year after a Sweet 16. Last 4 years : Crean : 8th in conference, 7th in conference, 1st in conference, 10th in conference JT3 : 7th in conference, 2nd in conference, 8th in conference, 9th in conference You better believe Indiana fans made the same "trajectory" argument.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 30, 2017 14:04:42 GMT -5
If the Board knew what they were doing, and knew JT3 was done here, they should have fired him on March 9, after we lost at the BET or shortly thereafter. Waiting until March 23 tells me they didn't know what they were doing; or at the very least, it wasn't a unanimous decision (which seems to be the case). I am not trying to debate the merits. Whether he should have been fired is moot; I am saying that I am disappointed the decision wasn't made more quickly, and the firing and the search wasn't handled more promptly, like just about every other major school that fires their coach and then makes a new hire. As you well know there were impediments to getting it done quickly Don't be obtuse. Indiana took 9 days to hire a new coach. They had the best job available. It's been a week since JT3 was mercifully released. Your narrative of an aimless Board conducting a haphazard search doesn't hold up. I know your goal is to disagree with everything I write. But, my opinion on the Board is just that - my opinion. Clearly you disagree, which is fine. I am not looking for an argument on it. We can agree to disagree. But, to explain where I am coming from, to be clear: my problem with the Board's actions is not that it has taken "long" to hire the new coach. My problem is that they let the situation hang for 2 weeks before they took any action. Indiana let Crean go less than two days after his last game. Georgetown waited over two weeks - two weeks that are among the most important in the timeline of hiring a new coach. EDIT: My previous post was addressing the firing, not the search. I don't think the search has been haphazard and have never said that.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 30, 2017 14:05:22 GMT -5
For one, I've watched his teams play. They play sloppy basketball. Crean also is a bit of a bible thumper and diet coke huffer which are unlikeable traits. He also makes it about him vs. the players and team. I am from Indiana and while I agree that fan base is over the top, Crean is to blame. He can't coach bigs (watch how many times in a game Bryant goes inside, it is rare) and he allows for errant chucking, high turnovers & poor D. Sound familiar? He did recruit well at Indiana but he did that in a dishonorable way. One, he didn't recruit the state well which is a sin in Indiana. Two, he frequently would recruit over kids and pull back out of verbals which Editeded off all the high school and AAU programs in the state which is why his roster is mainly composed of out of staters despite Indiana being a hot bed for talent. He is wrong on many levels and those are my reasons. There's something missing here. That guy would not be as successful as Crean has been. I'm willing to believe that personality-wise he may be a bad fit here. But, sloppy b'ball or not, he would have us contending in the BE by his third year. Guess it depends on what floats your boat. I think most people think Crean is a good coach and an even better recruiter, so it is not so much his basketball qualifications that bother people as much as his perceived personality. I will defer to people who know him, and his history, better than I but he does seem to be a guy who is easy to dislike personally. I think he would succeed at Georgetown and have the program back at, or near, the top of the Big East in three years, but I also think he has a shelve life of 6 -7 years when people seem to get sick of him and one or two off years and people are happy to run him out of town. His teams, at least the team he had this last season, did play sloppy at times and turned the ball over way too often. The difference is they turned it over while trying to play really fast and push the tempo while Georgetown turned it over this year trying to slow it down. Teams that play fast are going to have some turnovers and they hope they can overcome those turnovers by creating more offensive opportunities by pushing the pace. Turnovers are never a good thing but are a little more understandable with teams that play fast.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 30, 2017 14:10:16 GMT -5
I think disliked is the wrong word. He seems like a very decent man. However ... Tom Crean : .606 winning percentage, .664 at Marquette, 4 NCAA appearances in 9 years JT3 : .641 winning percentage, .653 at Georgetown, 5 NCAA appearances in 9 years is there really that much difference there? You're hiring someone the same age as JT3, with a very similar record as JT3, who was fired for very similar results as JT3. It's virtually the same thing as Amaker - why did we go through what is basically political upheaval of the Thompsons for a guy who is basically in the same situation as JT3? As far as I understand it, and I'm still not sure I agree with it, the point of firing JT3 was to get to another level of success. Tom Crean's not going to do that. With Hurley, you're getting someone a bit younger, with a track record. With Christian, you get someone a lot younger, except without the track record. Why is the trajectory of the program not an issue with JTIII? I honestly do not get it. He was not terminated because he had only a .653 winning percentage. Crean was canned at 18-16, one year after a Sweet 16. As already discussed JTIII is under .500 in the NBE over a 4 year recruiting period And is only 7 games above .500 in the same time fram. This is outside of the back back to losing seasons If you reverse the standards of the University's, Crean would still be coaching at IU and GU would have fired JTIII a long time ago.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 30, 2017 14:11:15 GMT -5
But, to explain where I am coming from, to be clear: my problem with the Board's actions is not that it has taken "long" to hire the new coach. My problem is that they let the situation hang for 2 weeks before they took any action. Indiana let Crean go less than two days after his last game. Georgetown waited over two weeks - two weeks that are among the most important in the timeline of hiring a new coach. I mostly agree with everything you've posted over the last couple months, but this is basically arguing that the result was suboptimal without really looking at why, or factoring in whether that could really have been avoided. Firing Tom Crean is a much easier decision and a much more clear cut one than firing JT3 at Georgetown. I also don't buy the "we could have had Keatts" argument. Keatts isn't dumb. He knew the Indiana job and the Georgetown job were contenders to open up. He signed with NC State anyway. Maybe we get a chance to interview him if our job opens up sooner but nothing about how this search has gone has convinced me we would have stood a good shot against Indiana or NC State in hiring Keatts or Miller.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 30, 2017 14:12:23 GMT -5
I've heard from a friend of my cousin twice removed that they heard that the search committee, when considering all the options, decided to take JTIII back as coach. I believe you mistakenly typed one too many "I"'s.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 30, 2017 14:15:37 GMT -5
Why is the trajectory of the program not an issue with JTIII? I honestly do not get it. He was not terminated because he had only a .653 winning percentage. Crean was canned at 18-16, one year after a Sweet 16. Last 4 years : Crean : 8th in conference, 7th in conference, 1st in conference, 10th in conference JT3 : 7th in conference, 2nd in conference, 8th in conference, 9th in conference You better believe Indiana fans made the same "trajectory" argument. Difference being there are 14 teams in the Big Ten and 10 in the Big East. So JT3's results over the last 4 years are much worse than Crean's in the context of overall league standings.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 30, 2017 14:16:19 GMT -5
I can't believe people are still bringing up JT3. But since they did....I think when JT3 (hopefully) comes back for games, etc. he will be very warmly received by Hoyas fans for all that he accomplished. But frankly a big part of what the new coach has to do is dig us out of the deep hole he's put us in from a roster and perception perspective. I hope that challenge isn't scaring off potential hires. We are fortunate that there's so many transfers - 5th year and otherwise - floating around these days so you can create a bridge to a new generation of freshmen. If a new coach is held to the same standards as JTIII then he should welcome that challenge. It will take the sky is falling on the program before he gets fired aka back to back losing seasons, #1 recruit leaving and the son of a legend transferring.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 30, 2017 14:21:59 GMT -5
I can't believe people are still bringing up JT3. But since they did....I think when JT3 (hopefully) comes back for games, etc. he will be very warmly received by Hoyas fans for all that he accomplished. But frankly a big part of what the new coach has to do is dig us out of the deep hole he's put us in from a roster and perception perspective. I hope that challenge isn't scaring off potential hires. We are fortunate that there's so many transfers - 5th year and otherwise - floating around these days so you can create a bridge to a new generation of freshmen. If a new coach is held to the same standards as JTIII then he should welcome that challenge. It will take the sky is falling on the program before he gets fired aka back to back losing seasons, #1 recruit leaving and the son of a legend transferring. Not sure our new coach will be given as much leeway as JTIII, although the university will certainly be patient initially. There will certainly be a challenge to the rebuild given the recent notoriety, our history, and the role we were expected to play in the Big East. But anyone who is not eager to accept and confront those challenges should not be seriously considered in the first place.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 30, 2017 14:29:27 GMT -5
If a new coach is held to the same standards as JTIII then he should welcome that challenge. It will take the sky is falling on the program before he gets fired aka back to back losing seasons, #1 recruit leaving and the son of a legend transferring. Not sure our new coach will be given as much leeway as JTIII, although the university will certainly be patient initially. There will certainly be a challenge to the rebuild given the recent notoriety, our history, and the role we were expected to play in the Big East. But anyone who is not eager to accept and confront those challenges should not be seriously considered in the first place. I hope the new coach does not have the amount of leash that JTIII as those standards are terribly low... Also for anyone complaining about why didn't JTIII get fired after the season, that is cause the University was going to bring him back. It took Tremont Waters announcing that he was leaving, Trey Mourning transferring, LJ Peak leaving for the NBA which all happened after the season ended before the Board pulled the trigger on JTIII.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 30, 2017 14:29:31 GMT -5
So I'd heard of Jamion Christian before, but didn't know much about him honestly. Knew his name was floating around. So I just read the blurb on TheSiteThatCostUsTremontWaters.com and HOT DAMN... Seriously, it made me tingle in funny places. It's the first time since 3/23 that a name besides Shaka actually had me excited at the prospects. Energy? Check Style of play? Check Clear focused program goals? Check Coaching chops? Check Do you think a Christian coached 16-17 Hoyas team finishes under 500 after reading that? SIGN ME UP NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Seriously. If he's what he sells himself as, I could see him running this place for 40 years. Doesn't his style of play also at least give Waters pause about maybe coming back into the fold? DO IT DO IT DO IT When I say the boy has his own website, I MEAN THE BOY HAS HIS OWN WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 30, 2017 14:34:08 GMT -5
I mostly agree with everything you've posted over the last couple months, but this is basically arguing that the result was suboptimal without really looking at why, or factoring in whether that could really have been avoided. Firing Tom Crean is a much easier decision and a much more clear cut one than firing JT3 at Georgetown. I also don't buy the "we could have had Keatts" argument. Keatts isn't dumb. He knew the Indiana job and the Georgetown job were contenders to open up. He signed with NC State anyway. Maybe we get a chance to interview him if our job opens up sooner but nothing about how this search has gone has convinced me we would have stood a good shot against Indiana or NC State in hiring Keatts or Miller. Well, I do agree with you to some extent: whether the result (i.e., who we hire) will change based on the delay is impossible to know, especially since we don't even know who it will be. Still, I think the better positioning would have been to do it right away, right than waiting. Could there have been behind the scenes stuff going on that impacted the timing? Probably. But two weeks is a long time. Whether it will ultimately matter, I don't know. I sure hope not - I want us to get a great candidate. But, regardless of the outcome, I don't think it was handled in an ideal way. That's all.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Mar 30, 2017 14:42:43 GMT -5
So I'd heard of Jamion Christian before, but didn't know much about him honestly. Knew his name was floating around. So I just read the blurb on TheSiteThatCostUsTremontWaters.com and HOT DAMN... Seriously, it made me tingle in funny places. It's the first time since 3/23 that a name besides Shaka actually had me excited at the prospects. Energy? Check Style of play? Check Clear focused program goals? Check Coaching chops? Check Do you think a Christian coached 16-17 Hoyas team finishes under 500 after reading that? SIGN ME UP NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Seriously. If he's what he sells himself as, I could see him running this place for 40 years. Doesn't his style of play also at least give Waters pause about maybe coming back into the fold? DO IT DO IT DO IT When I say the boy has his own website, I MEAN THE BOY HAS HIS OWN WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Here's the article by Ron Bailey that first got me excited: georgetown.rivals.com/news/down-a-level-may-be-way-to-goAnd, he's a darling of the local sports media in general.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 30, 2017 14:43:06 GMT -5
So I'd heard of Jamion Christian before, but didn't know much about him honestly. Knew his name was floating around. So I just read the blurb on TheSiteThatCostUsTremontWaters.com and HOT DAMN... Seriously, it made me tingle in funny places. It's the first time since 3/23 that a name besides Shaka actually had me excited at the prospects. Energy? Check Style of play? Check Clear focused program goals? Check Coaching chops? Check Do you think a Christian coached 16-17 Hoyas team finishes under 500 after reading that? SIGN ME UP NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Seriously. If he's what he sells himself as, I could see him running this place for 40 years. Doesn't his style of play also at least give Waters pause about maybe coming back into the fold? DO IT DO IT DO IT When I say the boy has his own website, I MEAN THE BOY HAS HIS OWN WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Is there a profile about James Jones on that site yet?
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 30, 2017 14:47:00 GMT -5
I can't believe people are still bringing up JT3. But since they did....I think when JT3 (hopefully) comes back for games, etc. he will be very warmly received by Hoyas fans for all that he accomplished. But frankly a big part of what the new coach has to do is dig us out of the deep hole he's put us in from a roster and perception perspective. I hope that challenge isn't scaring off potential hires. We are fortunate that there's so many transfers - 5th year and otherwise - floating around these days so you can create a bridge to a new generation of freshmen. If a new coach is held to the same standards as JTIII then he should welcome that challenge. It will take the sky is falling on the program before he gets fired aka back to back losing seasons, #1 recruit leaving and the son of a legend transferring. To me those are distant clouds...
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iverwig
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Post by iverwig on Mar 30, 2017 14:52:11 GMT -5
Not coming off two straight losing records he wouldn't. If a coach with JT3's exact resume - a final four in the distant past and lots of losing in the most recent past - were hired now, there would be an uproar. Justifiably. But keep dreaming. Again. See Shaka Smart (edited above). Their resumes, absent the sexier name and style of play, are pretty similar over last 5 years. Except JT III has had more talent on his roster than Shaka. Also, lets not forget he gained notoriety for what he did at VCU.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 30, 2017 14:53:27 GMT -5
Why is the trajectory of the program not an issue with JTIII? I honestly do not get it. He was not terminated because he had only a .653 winning percentage. Crean was canned at 18-16, one year after a Sweet 16. Last 4 years : Crean : 8th in conference, 7th in conference, 1st in conference, 10th in conference JT3 : 7th in conference, 2nd in conference, 8th in conference, 9th in conference You better believe Indiana fans made the same "trajectory" argument. I concede that, if III had a 1st in conference and two Sweet 16s in the last 4 years, he should still be here. The reason firing III should have been a tougher call than Crean had nothing to do with the state of the program at the time of termination. We both know (I hope) that it had to do with history/culture, and I don't disagree with that idea. I believe that III could have been given another year, but not because of recent performance.
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