Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 3, 2017 15:28:27 GMT -5
W was silent for the entire Obama Presidency. He understood the tradition .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 16:13:09 GMT -5
Other than the fact that you apparently need SOMETHING to criticize Obama about, I'm not really sure why this grinds your gears.
Many of our political traditions have been thrown out the window over the past year (releasing tax returns, NOT actively encouraging foreign interference in our political process, etc...) and the American people haven't given a crap.
No reason why this one should be held to a higher standard than those.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 3, 2017 18:26:34 GMT -5
W was silent for the entire Obama Presidency. He understood the tradition . Isn't the tradition that former presidents not criticize or armchair quarterback the current president? If so how is working on the gerrymandering problem we have in this country now breaking that tradition?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 21:41:06 GMT -5
Well he has a lot to say now doesn't he, and you don't seem to mind.....
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 4, 2017 10:28:18 GMT -5
Well he has a lot to say now doesn't he, and you don't seem to mind..... Inasmuch as he stayed silent for 8 years and is not talking about his successor, no I don't. My original premise was that Mr. Obama would not observe tradition and could not resist talking. Was I wrong?
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 4, 2017 14:59:56 GMT -5
So far this week Trump has :
- accused Obama of illegally wiretapping him - accused Obama of orchestrating the protests - accused Obama of colluding with the Russians
Is this sacred tradition "don't say anything about your successor" a one way street where your propaganda-loving predecessor gets to throw out baseless inflammatory accusations on a daily basis to distract from his incompetence, lack of popularity, and scandal, knowing that there's this unspoken rule of propriety that demands silence (which, along with basically any other rule of propriety, he'll never follow)?
We're in uncharted waters here because no other President has acted like this, not because Obama lacks impulse control or whatever projective nonsense Elvado would like to have us believe. Pretty sure if LBJ or Truman had lived till Watergate broke, he'd have weighed in on it.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 4, 2017 15:15:24 GMT -5
So far this week Trump has : - accused Obama of illegally wiretapping him - accused Obama of orchestrating the protests - accused Obama of colluding with the Russians Is this sacred tradition "don't say anything about your successor" a one way street where your propaganda-loving predecessor gets to throw out baseless inflammatory accusations on a daily basis to distract from his incompetence, lack of popularity, and scandal, knowing that there's this unspoken rule of propriety that demands silence (which, along with basically any other rule of propriety, he'll never follow)? We're in uncharted waters here because no other President has acted like this, not because Obama lacks impulse control or whatever projective nonsense Elvado would like to have us believe. Pretty sure if LBJ or Truman had lived till Watergate broke, he'd have weighed in on it. And Obama's Amen choir sings again... He can do no wrong. I get it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 20:37:43 GMT -5
So there's a 4 to 8 year waiting period? That's the tradition you speak of?... The 4 to 8 rule...Mmkay..
The tradition I'm familiar with as Etomic stated above refers to succesors, plural....It seems your problem is with Obama, not tradition or past presidents speaking out against their succesors...
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Post by Problem of Dog on Mar 4, 2017 21:16:18 GMT -5
So far this week Trump has : - accused Obama of illegally wiretapping him - accused Obama of orchestrating the protests - accused Obama of colluding with the Russians Is this sacred tradition "don't say anything about your successor" a one way street where your propaganda-loving predecessor gets to throw out baseless inflammatory accusations on a daily basis to distract from his incompetence, lack of popularity, and scandal, knowing that there's this unspoken rule of propriety that demands silence (which, along with basically any other rule of propriety, he'll never follow)? We're in uncharted waters here because no other President has acted like this, not because Obama lacks impulse control or whatever projective nonsense Elvado would like to have us believe. Pretty sure if LBJ or Truman had lived till Watergate broke, he'd have weighed in on it. And Obama's Amen choir sings again... He can do no wrong. I get it. Wait, do you really think that now he has no obligation to speak out? After these literally unhinged comments prompted by a Breitbart article and Mark Levin rather than any intelligence briefing? Again, this is not politics as usual. Even in that climate, President Obama has shown significant restraint. Trump is an absolute coward, who, after years of racist questions of President Obama's background, cowered when the two met, and then within weeks ran to Twitter to criticize the former President. It's not new, he's just a typical Twitter troll.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 5, 2017 8:54:18 GMT -5
And Obama's Amen choir sings again... He can do no wrong. I get it. This thread literally is a stupid internet troll version of "why are you hitting yourself". You're holding one side responsible for not speaking out and holding that above all else while the other throws around lies about high crimes.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 6, 2017 14:17:15 GMT -5
W was silent for the entire Obama Presidency. He understood the tradition . Would it be ok for the former President to speak now Elvado?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 6, 2017 14:23:54 GMT -5
W was silent for the entire Obama Presidency. He understood the tradition . Would it be ok for the former President to speak now Elvado? He can do anything he wants. We all know that.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 6, 2017 14:26:58 GMT -5
Would it be ok for the former President to speak now Elvado? He can do anything he wants. We all know that. I get it a snark deserves a snark.. Do you believe it's ok for him to speak now? In all seriousness..
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 6, 2017 14:31:15 GMT -5
Yes. He stands accused of something and should respond.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 2:59:16 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/us/politics/trump-wiretap-claim-obama.html?_r=1It began at 6:35 a.m. with a Twitter post reading: “Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my ‘wires tapped’ in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!” Three other posts quickly followed, capped by a 7:02 rocket that read: “How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!” That led to a succession of frantic staff conference calls, including one consultation with the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, as staff members grasped the reality that the president had opened an attack on his predecessor. Mr. Trump, advisers said, was in high spirits after he fired off the posts. But by mid afternoon, after returning from golf, he appeared to realize he had gone too far, although he still believed Mr. Obama had wiretapped him, according to two people in Mr. Trump’s orbit. He sounded defiant in conversations at Mar-a-Lago with his friend Christopher Ruddy, the chief executive of Newsmax Media, Mr. Ruddy said. In other conversations that afternoon, the president sounded uncertain of the procedure for obtaining a warrant for secret wiretaps on an American citizen. Mr. Trump also canvassed some aides and associates about whether an investigator, even one outside the government, could substantiate his charge._____________________________________ Over the weekend, aides to Mr. Trump decided the only real solution to the presidential Twitter posts was to kick the allegations to Congress. On Sunday, Mr. Spicer issued a statement saying that the matter was effectively closed and that the president would not address it again until the intelligence committees had released their findings — which could be many months away. ___________________________________ Oh...
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 8, 2017 6:29:34 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/us/politics/trump-wiretap-claim-obama.html?_r=1It began at 6:35 a.m. with a Twitter post reading: “Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my ‘wires tapped’ in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!” Three other posts quickly followed, capped by a 7:02 rocket that read: “How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!” That led to a succession of frantic staff conference calls, including one consultation with the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, as staff members grasped the reality that the president had opened an attack on his predecessor. Mr. Trump, advisers said, was in high spirits after he fired off the posts. But by mid afternoon, after returning from golf, he appeared to realize he had gone too far, although he still believed Mr. Obama had wiretapped him, according to two people in Mr. Trump’s orbit. He sounded defiant in conversations at Mar-a-Lago with his friend Christopher Ruddy, the chief executive of Newsmax Media, Mr. Ruddy said. In other conversations that afternoon, the president sounded uncertain of the procedure for obtaining a warrant for secret wiretaps on an American citizen. Mr. Trump also canvassed some aides and associates about whether an investigator, even one outside the government, could substantiate his charge. _____________________________________ Over the weekend, aides to Mr. Trump decided the only real solution to the presidential Twitter posts was to kick the allegations to Congress. On Sunday, Mr. Spicer issued a statement saying that the matter was effectively closed and that the president would not address it again until the intelligence committees had released their findings — which could be many months away. ___________________________________ Oh... "No one knew that the Foreign Surveillance Intelligence Act could be so complicated!" Poor Don the Con: "I wish I knew how to quit you!" he should tweet to Obama . . . What an ignorant moron we have as a President. And malignant narcissist and pathological liar. He also tweeted that 122 Gitmo detainees were released by Obama had returned to the battlefield. Except that 113 of the 122 were released by George W. Bush. Don "Bone Spurs" Trump strikes again and his GOP enablers remain silent. It's a shame that Trump doesn't understand the tradition that Americans hope that their President tells the truth. www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/opinion/a-lie-by-any-other-name.html#story-continues-4
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 8, 2017 13:06:07 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, if President Obama had "tapped" him (if that were the way it actually worked) prompting President Twitter to call his predecessor out, why would an investigation be necessary? In order to make such a claim, some investigation must have been conducted or evidence must already be in Trump's possession, no? Oh wait....
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 8, 2017 21:56:59 GMT -5
I know this can't and won't happen, but maybe Obama should sue Trump for libel (at least I assume a tweet is a writing, and not somehow equivalent to speech). Just imagine the ramifications.
And Trump had the temerity to refer to Ted Cruz as Lyin' Ted.
I gave Trump 48 hours after his speech to re-commence crapping all over himself. Congrats to him for making it to 96 hours.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 8, 2017 22:20:44 GMT -5
I know this can't and won't happen, but maybe Obama should sue Trump for libel (at least I assume a tweet is a writing, and not somehow equivalent to speech). Just imagine the ramifications. And Trump had the temerity to refer to Ted Cruz as Lyin' Ted. I gave Trump 48 hours after his speech to re-commence crapping all over himself. Congrats to him for making it to 96 hours. The Supreme Court has long held that a President is entitled to absolute immunity from private suits for money damages. (b) The President's absolute immunity is a functionally mandated incident of his unique office, rooted in the constitutional tradition of the separation of powers and supported by the Nation's history. Because of the singular importance of the President's duties, diversion of his energies by concern with private lawsuits would raise unique risks to the effective functioning of government. While the separation of powers doctrine does not bar every exercise of jurisdiction over the President, a court, before exercising jurisdiction, must balance the constitutional weight of the interest to be served against the dangers of intrusion on the authority and functions of the Executive Branch. The exercise of jurisdiction is not warranted in the case of merely private suits for damages based on a President's official acts. Pp. 748-754. See Nixon v. Fitzgerald, 457 US 731 (1981)
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 9, 2017 11:05:52 GMT -5
Flipping the script of the original post in this thread...
One laudable tradition that has been mostly honored by incoming Presidents is staying quiet and refraining from criticism of his predecessor.
Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, GHWB, Clinton, GWB and Obama have all observed this in my lifetime.
Will Mr. Trump follow suit?
As the events of the last few days conclusively prove, the answer to that question, sadly, decidedly, is no.
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