kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 19, 2016 10:34:39 GMT -5
Stop the presses - a Democratic Gov (hoyainspirit's buddy) speaking to Rachel Maddow isn't criticizing Obama? Shocker. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 10:48:54 GMT -5
Stop the presses - a Democratic Gov (hoyainspirit's buddy) speaking to Rachel Maddow isn't criticizing Obama? Shocker. Oh KC you love the attention don't you. He lays out the reasons why, which ones do you disagree with?? Also while you're waiting on the all important "Photo op" what is your opinion on the less important issues raised in the other 2 article I posted? Thx |
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 19, 2016 11:13:06 GMT -5
Stop the presses - a Democratic Gov (hoyainspirit's buddy) speaking to Rachel Maddow isn't criticizing Obama? Shocker.  |
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 19, 2016 11:18:35 GMT -5
I think everyone should leave him be. He is busy insuring that no foursome goes unfilled at Farm Neck and that no pretentious restaurant has an empty seat. Guess with whom he was golfing. Our own kc, oops, Larry David. |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 19, 2016 11:38:52 GMT -5
Speaking as a FEMA contractor... while response and initial recovery activities are still going on, you generally don't want the President's huge security and logistical footprint getting in the way. As people have noted, the President is not making operational decisions (unlike the Governor in some cases), so having POTUS there is purely symbolic. Sometimes that's called for, but in most cases, it's best to wait. Was the early on-the-ground presence in Sandy warranted? I could go either way. Clearly politics played a role, with the election looming. But in some cases people really do take heart from having leaders there, promising that they will commit the resources of the nation to help them recover.
The Louisiana flooding is much more severe from a localized perspective than Sandy, but Sandy covered a much wider swath (11 states including DC got disaster declarations) and hit the densest and most expensive part of the country. The damage totals will not be anywhere near as high as Sandy as a result. Also, absent storm surge and wind, you're going to see a lot less actual destruction of homes and structures. Three feet of water in your structure sucks and necessitates evacuation, but it is much more readily recoverable from. Katrina is on a whole other plane.
I think the conversation above - sardonic as it is - does reflect the fact that we're mostly talking about symbolism. What really matters is whether the government is getting the job done. With Bush and Katrina, that was clearly not the case. With Sandy, it was much better (although it was a close call in many ways...). Here, the incident operations and coordination have been going fairly well, from my perspective. So at that point it's just symbolism and politics and people looking to bash the President will do that and those inclined to defend him will do that. But there's not really much of substance behind it either way.
If this had happened on Bush's watch and the response had been equally effective, I don't think the Brush Clearer-in-Chief (hah! see, anyone can make up derogatory nicknames that elide the fact that the Presidency is a non-stop job and every vacation is a working one) would've gotten much criticism for not showing up in order to get obligatory disaster porn photos of him bravely surveying the rubble in a bomber jacket.
My personal view, looking at it totally apolitically: at the very least, wait until the floodwaters have receded before showing up. Significant river flooding will persist into this weekend, so hold off until after that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 12:10:16 GMT -5
Speaking as a FEMA contractor... Whoa...stop right there. If you actually know something about a topic, there's no room for you on the Blue & Gray board. This is a logic-free zone. Your practical approach and attempts to inject reason into the discussion are not welcome. Particularly of you are seeking to rationalize the actions of any Democratic politician, at any moment in time. Either turn on the snark, or get the hell out of here. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 19, 2016 15:26:11 GMT -5
Stop the presses - a Democratic Gov (hoyainspirit's buddy) speaking to Rachel Maddow isn't criticizing Obama? Shocker. Oh KC you love the attention don't you. He lays out the reasons why, which ones do you disagree with?? Also while you're waiting on the all important "Photo op" what is your opinion on the less important issues raised in the other 2 article I posted? Thx . Appearing on CNN, former U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu, a Democrat, also praised Trump's trip. "I want to thank Mr. Trump for coming to Louisiana," she said. "He brought attention to our state and we need that now." Landrieu said she hopes that Clinton and Obama will make similar trips to Louisiana in the coming days. "It's really a serious disaster," she said. "We need all the attention and help we can get." |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 15:29:27 GMT -5
Oh KC you love the attention don't you. He lays out the reasons why, which ones do you disagree with?? Also while you're waiting on the all important "Photo op" what is your opinion on the less important issues raised in the other 2 article I posted? Thx . Appearing on CNN, former U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu, a Democrat, also praised Trump's trip. "I want to thank Mr. Trump for coming to Louisiana," she said. "He brought attention to our state and we need that now." Landrieu said she hopes that Clinton and Obama will make similar trips to Louisiana in the coming days. "It's really a serious disaster," she said. "We need all the attention and help we can get." Did you miss Rusky's post KC? The Governor lays out the reasons why this is a bad idea, which ones do you disagree with? Also while you're Edit: admiring that all important Trump "Photo op" what is your opinion on the less important issues raised in the other 2 article I posted? Thx |
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Aug 19, 2016 15:58:32 GMT -5
. Appearing on CNN, former U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu, a Democrat, also praised Trump's trip. "I want to thank Mr. Trump for coming to Louisiana," she said. "He brought attention to our state and we need that now." Landrieu said she hopes that Clinton and Obama will make similar trips to Louisiana in the coming days. "It's really a serious disaster," she said. "We need all the attention and help we can get." Did you miss Rusky's post KC? The Governor lays out the reasons why this is a bad idea, which ones do you disagree with? Also while you're Edit: admiring that all important Trump "Photo op" what is your opinion on the less important issues raised in the other 2 article I posted? Thx Your defense of Obama not going to LA is . . . oh, well, never mind. link
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 16:36:41 GMT -5
Did you miss Rusky's post KC? The Governor lays out the reasons why this is a bad idea, which ones do you disagree with? Also while you're Edit: admiring that all important Trump "Photo op" what is your opinion on the less important issues raised in the other 2 article I posted? Thx Your defense of Obama not going to LA is . . . oh, well, never mind. link
The public demands the photo op so we shall have the photo op. If only all you folks in a tizzy over this cared as much about climate change or infrastructure spending maybe we could avoid fewer photo ops like this in the future. The OP started the thread saying It would not help, nobody seems to dispute this but cue the Faux Outrage regardless. lol.. Idk Maybe he can hand out toys like Trump today. Problem solved... |
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Aug 19, 2016 16:43:55 GMT -5
Your defense of Obama not going to LA is . . . oh, well, never mind. link
The public demands the photo op so we shall have the photo op... If only all you folks in a tizzy over this cared as much about climate change or infrastructure spending maybe we could avoid fewer photo ops in the future. That is my "defense?" Maybe he can hand out toys like Trump today... Actually, the amount I care about this issue is just about as much as it is for climate change and infrastructure spending. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 17:11:23 GMT -5
The public demands the photo op so we shall have the photo op... If only all you folks in a tizzy over this cared as much about climate change or infrastructure spending maybe we could avoid fewer photo ops in the future. That is my "defense?" Maybe he can hand out toys like Trump today... Actually, the amount I care about this issue is just about as much as it is for climate change and infrastructure spending. I think those 2 issues are more important than the photo op but it is what it is I guess.. |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 19, 2016 19:59:47 GMT -5
Like I said, optics and politics very frequently plays some role in these things, irrespective of party. Some amount of it is expected and fine - you can never divorce government operations from politics. And some of it may even be helpful, if there's a danger that the severity will be underappreciated and there's a potential to unlock much greater charitable giving, etc. with a higher profile. What you don't want is it getting in the way of lifesaving and life-sustaining operations. Tuesday seems like a fair 'compromise' between the competing interests. I will say that I think the fact that it's Louisiana and the specter of Katrina is behind some of this hand-wringing - as it was with George W. Bush's reactions to disasters after Katrina, like the Iowa floods - quite apart from the particulars of the situation (which are bad enough for the tens of thousands affected). That, too, is inevitable - much like everything gets compared to Vietnam and Watergate and 9/11, so too will things be compared to Katrina as long as any of us are alive. I'd be remiss if I didn't add this: many thousands of devoted Americans are working night and day to help survivors. If you feel so inclined, you can donate to the American Red Cross's efforts at www.redcross.org/local/louisiana/flood-information?&scode=RSG00000E017&gclid=CNeQjtrkzs4CFYtahgodc2QEPA&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CN_vq9rkzs4CFYS8swodLG0K5w |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 21, 2016 9:23:52 GMT -5
Tuesday is a fair compromise only because it is when the emperor chose to put on some clothes. Had he shown up earlier, that would have been the right tone because he cares so deeply. When he chose to finish up the golf and foie gras tour instead, he was staying away so as not to impact operations.
I will freely admit my bias against the President. Will his die-hard defenders ever admit their bias in favor of him?
Had a Republican been in office right now, he would have been excoriated for elitist neglect.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 21, 2016 9:50:04 GMT -5
Tuesday is a fair compromise only because it is when the emperor chose to put on some clothes. Had he shown up earlier, that would have been the right tone because he cares so deeply. When he chose to finish up the golf and foie gras tour instead, he was staying away so as not to impact operations. I will freely admit my bias against the President. Will his die-hard defenders ever admit their bias in favor of him? Had a Republican been in office right now, he would have been excoriated for elitist neglect. You may be right about that last part. I really am not sure. I don't think what's happening in Louisiana, at least around where I live, is truly appreciated in terms of the magnitude of the devastation. Admittedly, that could be an incorrect perception on my part. Having said that, I don't know that I've ever personally known how to feel when destruction like this occurs as it pertains to the arrival of the President to the site. There seems to be a bit of damned if you do, damned if you don't to it and there certainly seem to be more disasters that don't get treated as such by the general public that spark a debate on "should he or shouldn't he visit." Obviously, the best look isn't to be on a golfing holiday but it's also not as though a President's vacation is an off the grid kind of situation. Thank you to RusskyHoya for the informed perspective. Much appreciated. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 21, 2016 14:48:54 GMT -5
Had a Republican been in office right now, he would have been excoriated for elitist neglect. Or he would have said, "Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job." |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 21, 2016 15:09:47 GMT -5
Had a Republican been in office right now, he would have been excoriated for elitist neglect. Or he would have said, "Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job." Clever but a real non-sequitur. That would never have been the reaction of the supplicant media. But your point is taken. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 21, 2016 21:12:53 GMT -5
Tuesday is a fair compromise only because it is when the emperor chose to put on some clothes. Had he shown up earlier, that would have been the right tone because he cares so deeply. When he chose to finish up the golf and foie gras tour instead, he was staying away so as not to impact operations. I will freely admit my bias against the President. Can we stop pretending this is anything but an excuse for you to make foie gras and golf attacks? If he had been there three days earlier passing out cartons of play-doh, you'd be complaining about that too. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 21, 2016 21:33:29 GMT -5
Guess we will never know because his tee time called...
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