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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jun 23, 2016 7:50:39 GMT -5
Code words... it's easy to call people names over a computer. As far as "whacko?" LOOK IN THE MIRROR. TRUTH HURTS DOESN'T IT? YOU VOTING FOR TRUMP TOO?
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jun 23, 2016 8:06:44 GMT -5
I was not a fan of Ali when I was young. I did not appreciate his braggadocio or his belittling of his opponents. I was listening to the Dodger game the night he died and Charlie Steiner referred to him as the original trash talker, which may well be true. However, it turned around for me when he refused to enter the draft, thereby sacrificing his title and going to prison. He could certainly have taken the easy way out, as he would never have been sent to the front lines, but chose not to. The Greatest? Probably not, but ultimately, despite his flaws, a great champion and role model. He was an inappropriate competitor in his talks to opponents which shouldn't be dismissed to make him a saint now. I really liked him as a kid as he was the man but when you look back, he was an a-hole who said things that were racist against his own race, put down people for his perceived lack of intelligence,etc. I think he did special things in his career but to paint him in the light of saint-hood is a bit off base. Inappropriate competitor? You talk to get into your opponents head. You probably never played sports before from what I'm reading lol. Ali has always been a saint. Your people have always been "racist" to African Americans and he had something to say about this. Ali had every right to speak about the racism and social and economic struggles of our people. You're still benefitting off of slavery today, but yet you have something to say about the G.O.A.T The a-hole is probably YOU. Ali said "racist" things against his own people. GTFOH bigot you must be crazy. And African americans cannot be racist. Stop your IGNORANCE. Stop embarrassing yourself www.diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/in-places-where-blacks-predominate-can-they-be-racist/
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by kchoya on Jun 23, 2016 9:28:32 GMT -5
He was an inappropriate competitor in his talks to opponents which shouldn't be dismissed to make him a saint now. I really liked him as a kid as he was the man but when you look back, he was an a-hole who said things that were racist against his own race, put down people for his perceived lack of intelligence,etc. I think he did special things in his career but to paint him in the light of saint-hood is a bit off base. Inappropriate competitor? You talk to get into your opponents head. You probably never played sports before from what I'm reading lol. Ali has always been a saint. Your people have always been "racist" to African Americans and he had something to say about this. Ali had every right to speak about the racism and social and economic struggles of our people. You're still benefitting off of slavery today, but yet you have something to say about the G.O.A.T The a-hole is probably YOU. Ali said "racist" things against his own people. GTFOH bigot you must be crazy. And African americans cannot be racist. Stop your IGNORANCE. Stop embarrassing yourself www.diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/in-places-where-blacks-predominate-can-they-be-racist/Why are you saying "your people?" Eagle54 is African American.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jun 23, 2016 9:49:27 GMT -5
Inappropriate competitor? You talk to get into your opponents head. You probably never played sports before from what I'm reading lol. Ali has always been a saint. Your people have always been "racist" to African Americans and he had something to say about this. Ali had every right to speak about the racism and social and economic struggles of our people. You're still benefitting off of slavery today, but yet you have something to say about the G.O.A.T The a-hole is probably YOU. Ali said "racist" things against his own people. GTFOH bigot you must be crazy. And African americans cannot be racist. Stop your IGNORANCE. Stop embarrassing yourself www.diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/in-places-where-blacks-predominate-can-they-be-racist/Why are you saying "your people?" Eagle54 is African American. Good.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jun 23, 2016 9:50:30 GMT -5
Why are you saying "your people?" Eagle54 is African American. Good.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 23, 2016 18:54:39 GMT -5
And this was why I didn't respond. I have no interest in getting into an utterly pointless Editeding contest with a whacko. And no, I'm not African-American. I'll bet that comes as quite a shock. I used to fashion myself as quite a hearts player back in the day. Does that count, KC? While I may not gloss myself the greatest in anything, my wife on Father's Day gave me a card that simply said Happy Father's Day to the Greatest. To which I replied that I float like a buffalo and sting like a pea. Daughter Rooter looked at me like I'd lost my mind. Code words... it's easy to call people names over a computer. As far as "whacko?" LOOK IN THE MIRROR. TRUTH HURTS DOESN'T IT? YOU VOTING FOR TRUMP TOO? Not voting for Trump. Now if George Wallace or Strom Thurmond were still around... And that's a joke, in case you couldn't figure it out.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Jun 23, 2016 21:09:06 GMT -5
He was an inappropriate competitor in his talks to opponents which shouldn't be dismissed to make him a saint now. I really liked him as a kid as he was the man but when you look back, he was an a-hole who said things that were racist against his own race, put down people for his perceived lack of intelligence,etc. I think he did special things in his career but to paint him in the light of saint-hood is a bit off base. Inappropriate competitor? You talk to get into your opponents head. You probably never played sports before from what I'm reading lol. Ali has always been a saint. Your people have always been "racist" to African Americans and he had something to say about this. Ali had every right to speak about the racism and social and economic struggles of our people. You're still benefitting off of slavery today, but yet you have something to say about the G.O.A.T The a-hole is probably YOU. Ali said "racist" things against his own people. GTFOH bigot you must be crazy. And African americans cannot be racist. Stop your IGNORANCE. Stop embarrassing yourself www.diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/in-places-where-blacks-predominate-can-they-be-racist/Of course Ali had every right to express his beliefs. That part of him is probably the part I respect most. He was also, if not the best, one of the best fighters in the history of the sport. To say, however, that he was a saint or that African Americans can't be racist isn't at all true. I'm not saying Ali was a racist. I'm saying a person of any race has the capacity to be a racist. As for the sainthood thing? You may want to pump the brakes on that. I very much doubt that his own kids or his own wives and mistresses would label him as such. He was a great man. Just not in every facet of his life. He was flawed like the rest of us.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Jun 23, 2016 22:17:38 GMT -5
Inappropriate competitor? You talk to get into your opponents head. You probably never played sports before from what I'm reading lol. Ali has always been a saint. Your people have always been "racist" to African Americans and he had something to say about this. Ali had every right to speak about the racism and social and economic struggles of our people. You're still benefitting off of slavery today, but yet you have something to say about the G.O.A.T The a-hole is probably YOU. Ali said "racist" things against his own people. GTFOH bigot you must be crazy. And African americans cannot be racist. Stop your IGNORANCE. Stop embarrassing yourself www.diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/in-places-where-blacks-predominate-can-they-be-racist/Of course Ali had every right to express his beliefs. That part of him is probably the part I respect most. He was also, if not the best, one of the best fighters in the history of the sport. To say, however, that he was a saint or that African Americans can't be racist isn't at all true. I'm not saying Ali was a racist. I'm saying a person of any race has the capacity to be a racist. As for the sainthood thing? You may want to pump the brakes on that. I very much doubt that his own kids or his own wives and mistresses would label him as such. He was a great man. Just not in every facet of his life. He was flawed like the rest of us. I'm sure even Ali himself would never label himself that way. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence out there that he really did regret some of the ugly insults he tossed at Frazier back when they were in their prime. When I was a kid, I cheered for Ali just about all the time (until the end, when he was hanging on, and watching some stolen decisions and the beatings he was taking led me to hope an opponent would just end the charade), but after getting a bit older and learning more about the various men, I came to respect Frazier more and Ali a little less. Ali was a great champion and tactical boxer, a lightning rod, and probably the best self-promoter in the history of sports, but he was not "wart-free" and I have a feeling he would be a little insulted to see his complexity (with both good and bad, like every human) reduced to unquestioned hagiography. He was all about people mixing it up, after all!
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Jun 23, 2016 23:01:41 GMT -5
We can debate Ali all day but there's a lot of revisionist history of him. He's not the greatest of all time, he lost way too much for that. But there's no denying what he said against his own race and how he used his lighter skin and self perceived better looks and attributes against Joe Frazier. Also his supposed superior intelligence. There's no way to deny that wasn't racist against his own race and that shouldn't have been tolerated but it unfortunately was the times. Would never be tolerated today and shouldn't have been then. He used it for his own promotion and I'm sure he regretted it later in life however that's a big deal to make this guy into something he wasn't. There's a lot more negatives there as well that we can point to but the treatment of Joe Frazier who I always admired stuck out as just unforgivable. I think we all want to forget the bad and act like this guy was something he wasn't. If he had come up in today's media they would have picked him apart as back then, he was in with the few that protected his lifestyle and promoted him. No different than how someone like JFK would have been treated in today's media for his actions versus the way the media covered those they wanted to be heroes back then.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Jun 23, 2016 23:04:19 GMT -5
He was an inappropriate competitor in his talks to opponents which shouldn't be dismissed to make him a saint now. I really liked him as a kid as he was the man but when you look back, he was an a-hole who said things that were racist against his own race, put down people for his perceived lack of intelligence,etc. I think he did special things in his career but to paint him in the light of saint-hood is a bit off base. Inappropriate competitor? You talk to get into your opponents head. You probably never played sports before from what I'm reading lol. Ali has always been a saint. Your people have always been "racist" to African Americans and he had something to say about this. Ali had every right to speak about the racism and social and economic struggles of our people. You're still benefitting off of slavery today, but yet you have something to say about the G.O.A.T The a-hole is probably YOU. Ali said "racist" things against his own people. GTFOH bigot you must be crazy. And African americans cannot be racist. Stop your IGNORANCE. Stop embarrassing yourself www.diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/in-places-where-blacks-predominate-can-they-be-racist/Glide, do we have to breath the same air because you really have no clue. I'm hoping you weren't coherent when you wrote this which might explain some of it. Also, who are my people?
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Jun 23, 2016 23:16:32 GMT -5
Of course Ali had every right to express his beliefs. That part of him is probably the part I respect most. He was also, if not the best, one of the best fighters in the history of the sport. To say, however, that he was a saint or that African Americans can't be racist isn't at all true. I'm not saying Ali was a racist. I'm saying a person of any race has the capacity to be a racist. As for the sainthood thing? You may want to pump the brakes on that. I very much doubt that his own kids or his own wives and mistresses would label him as such. He was a great man. Just not in every facet of his life. He was flawed like the rest of us. I'm sure even Ali himself would never label himself that way. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence out there that he really did regret some of the ugly insults he tossed at Frazier back when they were in their prime. When I was a kid, I cheered for Ali just about all the time (until the end, when he was hanging on, and watching some stolen decisions and the beatings he was taking led me to hope an opponent would just end the charade), but after getting a bit older and learning more about the various men, I came to respect Frazier more and Ali a little less. Ali was a great champion and tactical boxer, a lightning rod, and probably the best self-promoter in the history of sports, but he was not "wart-free" and I have a feeling he would be a little insulted to see his complexity (with both good and bad, like every human) reduced to unquestioned hagiography. He was all about people mixing it up, after all! It's pretty difficult to get past some of the Frazier stuff. It went well beyond "getting in his head" to gain an advantage. But, in fairness, it seems as though they mended fences later on and that Ali gave Frazier his due many years after. I'm with you on the respect part with Ali/Frazier. Ali changed the paradigm for professional athletes and the way in which they talked to/used the media. I don't know if that's good or bad as it's evolved to BS both in respect and posturing. But, at the time, it was new and compelling.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 23, 2016 23:20:23 GMT -5
Oooh, this is pretty good!
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Jun 23, 2016 23:29:56 GMT -5
Think about how the modern athletes who had multiple children with multiple women are depicted and with Ali no one talks about this. Just an example of the media today versus how he was treated:
Muhammad Ali has passed away, leaving behind a huge family of 9 kids. Ali was married four times, but not all of his children came from each wife. Two of his kids were from other relationships. When Ali married his first wife Sonji Roi, the marriage was very short and they never had kids. Ali then went on to marry his second wife Belinda Boyd, who later changed her name to Khalilah. Together, they had four children - Maryum (who was born 1968), twins Jamillah and Rasheda (who were born 1970), and Muhammad Ali, Jr. (who was born 1972). While married to Boyd, Ali had an affair with his third wife Veronica Porsche. Porsche and Ali went on to get married and had two daughters - Hana and Laila Ali. Ali's current wife (now widow), married the former boxer in 1986 and they adopted one son together - Assad Amin. In addition to these seven offspring, Ali also had two other daughters - Miya and Khaliah. Miya's mother is a woman named Patricia Harvell and The NY Daily News reports that Khaliah is a love child of Ali's. Khaliah was conceived when Ali was still married to second wife Boyd. Khaliah's mother is a woman named Wanda Bolton. Though this equals nine children, there's a good possibility that Muhammad Ali may actually have 10 kids as a woman named Kiiursti Mensah Ali claims to have proof in a paternity test. Kiiursti Mensah Ali told The Mirror that she is Muhammad Ali's daughter, but she blames Ali's wife Lonnie for cutting her out of her father's life. Mensah revealed: Muhammad Ali is my dad – but everything changed the moment he married her. He stopped coming to see me. As the years went by he got sicker and sicker. She stopped him having a relationship with me. It’s been devastating. Mensah said that Ali met her mother Barbara when Barbara was just 17 years old.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Jul 4, 2016 19:55:28 GMT -5
I've been a bit torn on this. It's been frequently said that Ali did things to promote the hype. But in the end, it was uncomfortable to hear him call opponents inappropriate names in that sense, he was very similar to Donald Trump. Racially insensitive? I don't think so. Saying someone fought like a "big mummy" is hardly. However mocking someone's intelligence is insensitive. But I can't recall any statements where Ali said flat out racist things about his own race of people. But having met him 3 times, his energy was undeniable - its as if he knew some truth about the world that most of us aren't aware of. In the end, he was a good person with flaws like the rest of us. its obvious he was no saint as Frazier would have told you. I'm no good at embedding video, but I believe the racist comments at least in part refer to his portraying Joe Frazier as a "Gorilla" in the publicity leading up to their fight in Manilla. And to a lesser extent, to Ali portraying Frazier as ugly and stupid because he was a soft spoken guy. It is easy to see from videos available that Frazier was far from unintelligent. Some network, perhaps ESPN, did a mini-documentary on it some years ago about how badly that hurt Frazier at the time to be called out like that by a fellow black man who happened to be lighter-skinned than he was. I understand that in the end they made amends. yes i saw the documentary it wasn't on that specifically but it was mentioned that that was part of it....even if it was to sell tix; but i was very disappointed in what Ali did re: Joe; I didn't see it as racist tho, but it did feed into some stereotypes. I feel ya...
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Jul 4, 2016 20:13:45 GMT -5
Inappropriate competitor? You talk to get into your opponents head. You probably never played sports before from what I'm reading lol. Ali has always been a saint. Your people have always been "racist" to African Americans and he had something to say about this. Ali had every right to speak about the racism and social and economic struggles of our people. You're still benefitting off of slavery today, but yet you have something to say about the G.O.A.T The a-hole is probably YOU. Ali said "racist" things against his own people. GTFOH bigot you must be crazy. And African americans cannot be racist. Stop your IGNORANCE. Stop embarrassing yourself www.diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/in-places-where-blacks-predominate-can-they-be-racist/Of course Ali had every right to express his beliefs. That part of him is probably the part I respect most. He was also, if not the best, one of the best fighters in the history of the sport. To say, however, that he was a saint or that African Americans can't be racist isn't at all true. I'm not saying Ali was a racist. I'm saying a person of any race has the capacity to be a racist. As for the sainthood thing? You may want to pump the brakes on that. I very much doubt that his own kids or his own wives and mistresses would label him as such. He was a great man. Just not in every facet of his life. He was flawed like the rest of us. His kids have said that he wasn't at all perfect, there's one in particular that is disillusioned by the fact that Ali never communicated with him. Haha yeah I'm sure a couple of his ex-wives would vouch for that. Heck, Martin Luther King was far from a saint - allegations against him were very disappointing.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Sept 13, 2016 13:28:35 GMT -5
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