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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 22, 2016 18:39:46 GMT -5
The world Islam doesn't matter the Radicals is the part that matters. We're fighting radicals, it wouldn't matter if they were Coptic Christian radicals who were doing the same thing. The Islam part of their identity has no impact. They could be atheist radicals. We shouldn't give any credence to their bastardization of the religion they happen to profess. There isn't something inherent to Islam that is causing this radicalization and terrorism. There have been just as many radical christian and atheist terrorists. I see no way in which denying them their association of Islam hurts our position. The idea that we don't know the enemy or are being soft on them by not using the word Islam baffles me. As has been explained it can only help our position.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 22, 2016 19:15:09 GMT -5
A 2013 Pew poll found that worldwide roughly 350 million Muslims supported violent jihad and a majority of Muslims favored sharia law in their countries. A Center of Security Policy 2015 poll of American Muslims found that 51% believe they should have a choice to be governed by sharia law while nearly 1/5 believe the use of violence in the U.S. is justified to make sharia law the law of U.S. The same poll found that nearly 1/4 of U.S. Muslims believe it is legitimate to use violence to punish those who offend Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.
This is not some very small minority of Muslims who have bastardized a peaceful religion and, to think so, is to greatly underestimate the problems in the world.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 22, 2016 19:48:38 GMT -5
A 2013 Pew poll found that worldwide roughly 350 million Muslims supported violent jihad and a majority of Muslims favored sharia law in their countries. A Center of Security Policy 2015 poll of American Muslims found that 51% believe they should have a choice to be governed by sharia law while nearly 1/5 believe the use of violence in the U.S. is justified to make sharia law the law of U.S. The same poll found that nearly 1/4 of U.S. Muslims believe it is legitimate to use violence to punish those who offend Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed. This is not some very small minority of Muslims who have bastardized a peaceful religion and, to think so, is to greatly underestimate the problems in the world. The Center of Security Policy is not an honest broker in this argument. "According to the Bridge Initiative, a Georgetown University Islamophobia research project, the CSP survey was an online, self-selecting poll of 600 people, meaning respondents opted in to taking part. Self-selecting internet surveys are less reliable that more traditional, random polling methods, because the opt-in element can lead to bias. Then there are the existing views of the organisation commissioning the poll - the CSP - which may have influenced the outcome." "The CSP has been criticised across the political spectrum - by high-profile Republicans as well as Democrats...The group was heavily criticised in 2012 after it repeatedly accused Huma Abedin, an aide to Hillary Clinton, of being a secret member of the Muslim Brotherhood." www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35037943
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 22, 2016 19:50:12 GMT -5
A 2013 Pew poll found that worldwide roughly 350 million Muslims supported violent jihad and a majority of Muslims favored sharia law in their countries. A Center of Security Policy 2015 poll of American Muslims found that 51% believe they should have a choice to be governed by sharia law while nearly 1/5 believe the use of violence in the U.S. is justified to make sharia law the law of U.S. The same poll found that nearly 1/4 of U.S. Muslims believe it is legitimate to use violence to punish those who offend Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed. This is not some very small minority of Muslims who have bastardized a peaceful religion and, to think so, is to greatly underestimate the problems in the world. Ed, I don't know why I keep doing this but here I go again. Could you please link to the Pew Research Poll you cite? This "Pew" data was cited by Trump in support of his Muslim ban but he did not cite his source or provide a link. I found a 2013 poll linked below but not certain it supports the statements made. The 2015 Pew data to which I link seems contradictory (except possibly regarding sharia law in their own countries). Linking to your sources may be helpful for a reasoned discussion. Regarding Frank Gaffney, (SFS '75 unfortunately) Center for Security Policy: He is a conspiracy theorist who has gone off the rails even hosting white supremacists on his radio show. Does anyone on this board believe a thing Gaffney says? Links below to critique of his poll and his background. "Then there was Gaffney’s 2011 claim that two board members of the Conservative Political Action Committee (CPAC) were secretly aiding the Muslim Brotherhood, proving that even potential right-wing allies are not safe from his vitriol. Gaffney’s evidence was predictably flimsy — board member and anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist’s wife is Palestinian-American, while board member Suhail Khan is a Muslim. Both were political appointees in the George W. Bush administration with long experience in conservative Republican Party affairs. Calling the accusations reprehensible, CPAC banned Gaffney from participating in future events. "Among the “enablers” of civilization jihad in America, President Obama is near the top of Gaffney’s list. But Gaffney has tried — and failed — to gather support for baseless suggestions that Obama is a practicing Muslim, or for the accusations he leveled in a series of Washington Times articles in 2009 that the Obama administration is adopting the Muslim Brotherhood’s Middle East plan. www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/07/donald-trumps-call-to-ban-muslims-from-coming-to-the-u-s-has-a-very-bad-poll-at-its-center/?tid=a_inlwww.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/frank-gaffney-jrwww.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/08/meet-frank-gaffney-the-anti-muslim-gadfly-who-produced-donald-trumps-anti-muslim-poll/Pew Research Poll 2015: "Recent surveys show that most people in several countries with significant Muslim populations have an unfavorable view of ISIS, including virtually all respondents in Lebanon and 94% in Jordan. Relatively small shares say they see ISIS favorably. In some countries, considerable portions of the population do not offer an opinion about ISIS, including a majority (62%) of Pakistanis." "More generally, Muslims mostly say that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are rarely or never justified, including 92% in Indonesia and 91% in Iraq. In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say that such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified in these circumstances." "In a few countries, a quarter or more of Muslims say that these acts of violence are at least sometimes justified, including 40% in the Palestinian territories, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% in Bangladesh." www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/From Pew Research Poll 10 years post 9/11: "On the contrary, as found in the Pew Research Center’s 2007 survey, Muslims in the United States continue to reject extremism by much larger margins than most Muslim publics surveyed this year by the Pew Global Attitudes Project. And majorities of Muslim Americans express concern about the possible rise of Islamic extremism, both here and abroad." "Many Muslims fault their own leaders for failing to challenge Islamic extremists. Nearly half (48%) say that Muslim leaders in the United States have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists; only about a third (34%) say Muslim leaders have done enough in challenging extremists. At the same time, 68% say that Muslim Americans themselves are cooperating as much as they should with law enforcement." www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/Pew Poll 2013 "In many of the countries surveyed, clear majorities of Muslims oppose violence in the name of Islam. Indeed, about three-quarters or more in Pakistan (89%), Indonesia (81%), Nigeria (78%) and Tunisia (77%), say suicide bombings or other acts of violence that target civilians are never justified. And although substantial percentages in some countries do think suicide bombing is often or sometimes justified – including a 62%-majority of Palestinian Muslims, overall support for violence in the name of Islam has declined among Muslim publics during the past decade." "Overall, views of extremist groups are negative across the Muslim publics surveyed. A median of about a third or fewer have a positive view of al Qaeda, the Taliban, Hamas, or Hezbollah. And in no country polled do any of these organizations receive majority Muslim support." That being said, it is undeniable that a substantial minority of Muslims do support some type of violence. It is possible the 350 million figure is derived by taking the minority percentages of the populations of the surveyed Muslim countries. www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 28, 2016 13:23:24 GMT -5
The point that I think that both KC and I are making, is that a terror watch list is probably not going to stop a potential terrorist from obtaining an assault rifle. I put the cookies above the refrigerator not because I think it'll stop all possibility that my kids can get to them, but because it makes it harder and makes them think about their decisions a little more. You may need to rethink your cookie-hiding strategy: I help innocent people get off terrorism watch lists. As a gun control tool, they’re useless.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 8, 2016 5:37:37 GMT -5
Never let a tragedy go to waste:
"Today is a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices they make for us," Obama said. "We also know when people are armed with powerful weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and more tragic."
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jul 8, 2016 6:17:51 GMT -5
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 8, 2016 7:48:43 GMT -5
Never let a tragedy go to waste: "Today is a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices they make for us," Obama said. "We also know when people are armed with powerful weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and more tragic." Damned if he does (talk about it), damned if he doesn't.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 8, 2016 9:48:10 GMT -5
You have something substantive to say, or are you just going to post a link to the Onion?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 8, 2016 9:48:52 GMT -5
Never let a tragedy go to waste: "Today is a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices they make for us," Obama said. "We also know when people are armed with powerful weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and more tragic." Damned if he does (talk about it), damned if he doesn't. Or, you know, he could wait and see what the facts are before spouting off again.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 8, 2016 10:20:41 GMT -5
This is an initial statement by the President as required from a country's leader when a tragedy like this happens. He cannot wait. You see it all the time, like when the French president addressed the nation after the recent terrorists attacks while a manhunt was going on. There will be other press conferences with more specifics.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jul 13, 2016 5:20:04 GMT -5
[quote timestamp="146577921 Now think on this one for a moment. This President, having declared ISIS a JV entity and continuously spinning happy tales about ISIS being on the run, can not and will not admit that most of his pronouncements on this issue have been empty and not based in reality. Yesterday's reality (like San Bernardino before it) does not fit his fanciful narrative and thus we can not admit it. [/quote] Inside ISIS: Quietly preparing for the loss of the ‘caliphate’ "Indeed, while the loss of a physical sanctuary would constitute a major blow to the Islamic State — severely limiting, for example, its ability to raise money, train recruits or plan complex terrorist operations — the group’s highly decentralized nature ensures that it will remain dangerous for some time to come, according to current and former U.S. officials and terrorism experts." www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/inside-isis-quietly-preparing-for-the-loss-of-the-caliphate/2016/07/12/9a1a8a02-454b-11e6-8856-f26de2537a9d_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_isisevolves-0910pm%3Ahomepage%2FstoryWas Obama wrong to describe ISIS as "JV". Absolutely. (Reminds me of when LTGEN John Sattler said that the Marines had "broken the back of the insurgency" after the second battle of Fallujah --- way in front of the story and absolutely wrong and I said so in my office at the time). Does this mean that the US should relax against the ISIS threat? Absolutely not.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 13, 2016 5:45:59 GMT -5
Nice of the President to work himself into the speech a mere 43 times.
Even managed to refer to himself in the third person.
He simply never disappoints.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jul 13, 2016 7:51:24 GMT -5
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Jul 13, 2016 7:54:58 GMT -5
Nice of the President to work himself into the speech a mere 43 times. Even managed to refer to himself in the third person. He simply never disappoints. The lecturing during a memorial service was also pretty standard fare.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 13, 2016 8:00:35 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jul 13, 2016 8:08:14 GMT -5
At a moment of national tragedy, it is sad that this is what you take from the memorial service for five slain police officers. It is not dissimilar from those criticizing President Bush, although the level of obsession to actually count words in the President's speech borders on irrational: www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/13/allow-him-to-sway-or-not-video-of-president-bush-at-dallas-memorial-divides-social-media/?tid=pm_pop_bThat's it. The President turns a memorial service into a national lecture and self-aggrandizing exercise and I'm irrational. God love your commitment. Elvado, did Obama kill your dog? I recognize that this is a deflection from my post about ISIS since you have no substantive repsonse to the comments I posted about ISIS's future viability. Nor did you have any substantive response on how the use of the terms such as radical jihadists makes any operational difference in that fight. I also assume you have zero foundation for any such opinion. Opinions without a basis in fact are worthless. Regardless, please do not mistake me for a full-throated Obama supporter, which I am not. Regarding Obama and Bush's joint appearance at the memorial service, I'd hazard to guess you and SaxaCD are in the minority on this one.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 13, 2016 8:16:08 GMT -5
I will defer to your military and intelligence expertise. Sometimes a President needs to let the American people know he understands how they are feeling. He needs to give voice to the concerns of those who put him in office.
President Obama likes to hector and lecture. He is never wrong; has never once given voice to the notion that we as a nation are under attack, not by Islam, but by radical fundamentalist Islamic terrorists.
He might want to give it a try. He is very happy to make quick statements about police acting stupidly or deride those who dare disagree with him.
This is a fundamentally divided nation politically. He might want to look at things from the other side just once before he leaves office.
Saxa and I may be in the vast minority in our reactions to the speech. Just as Obama is in the vast minority when it comes to who the enemy is in the war on terror.
It happens. Last I checked, it was still America...
Peace.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jul 13, 2016 8:39:15 GMT -5
I will defer to your military and intelligence expertise. Sometimes a President needs to let the American people know he understands how they are feeling. He needs to give voice to the concerns of those who put him in office. President Obama likes to hector and lecture. He is never wrong; has never once given voice to the notion that we as a nation are under attack, not by Islam, but by radical fundamentalist Islamic terrorists. He might want to give it a try. He is very happy to make quick statements about police acting stupidly or deride those who dare disagree with him. This is a fundamentally divided nation politically. He might want to look at things from the other side just once before he leaves office. Saxa and I may be in the vast minority in our reactions to the speech. Just as Obama is in the vast minority when it comes to who the enemy is in the war on terror. It happens. Last I checked, it was still America... Peace. Fair enough, Elvado. Of course it is still America and I tend to be optimistic, not pessimistic about the country simply because if you think things are bad now, you're too young to remember the late 1960s and early 1970s! Anyway, a bit of an exagerration to say Obama never admits he is wrong but I can also understand why he may come across as arrogant and elitist to some (if not many). "The mistake of my first term — of my first couple of years — was thinking that this job was just about getting the policy right," Obama said. "And that's important. But the nature of this office is also to tell a story to the American people that gives them a sense of unity and purpose and optimism, especially during tough times." Obama, seated next to his wife Michelle, added that it is a "legitimate criticism" that he did not do enough to inform people of where the country was heading — "not just explaining," he said, "but also inspiring." www.businessinsider.com/barack-obama-michelle-obama-charlie-rose-video-2012-7Libya policy wrong: reason.com/blog/2016/04/11/obama-admits-haphazard-us-intervention-iAnd he did eventually admit the "JV" comment was wrong: www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/09/29/obama-admitted-he-got-it-wrong-on-isis-thats-a-good-thing/Anecdote: When Obama signed E.0 13492 on January 22, 2009, one of the first (if not the first EO he signed upon taking office) purporting to order the closing of Gitmo we all had a good laugh in my office. Most of my colleagues recognized it as a cheap political stunt and knew that the closing of Gitmo was not going to happen. OTOH, when Bush announced the opening of Gitmo, many of us said what the heck was he doing because we thought it would subject the detainees there to U.S. jurisdiction.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 13, 2016 8:58:01 GMT -5
Thanks for a thoughtful and informative reply.
Now on more important issues, does Pryor average double figures in scoring this year?
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