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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2016 17:03:16 GMT -5
I know Gtown doesn't do these type of things but next year might be a good year to consider redshirting someone... Was thinking the same thing. And then I remembered thinking to myself during Trey's first season that III should have redshirted him then considering he wasn't playing him at all. We wouldn't be having this discussion about whether redshirting next season is a good, possible option if such a redshirt had taken place with Mourning two seasons ago. Ooops. That remark is going to upset folks as just more III-bashing on my part. My bad. I don't follow but they could still redshirt him next year if they liked.. I would think Kaleb would also be a good option as well since he's young for his class and a year in the weight room and working on his skills could do wonders. Plus adds some class balance 3 Sophs, 2 Freshman.. Problem is he might be your best defender on the wing next year so you would lose that
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2016 17:05:35 GMT -5
The team is too deep next year to only play 7-8 guys in a slow paced offense. I think more running / fast breaks and defensive intensity / pressing is a must. JT3 is known for riding his best players with 35+ minutes per game. He cannot play LJ and Copeland for 35+ minutes per game with this lineup. Truer words never spoken.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 23, 2016 17:17:40 GMT -5
How about:
Peak - 20 mpg Copeland - 20 mpg Pryor - 20 mpg Derrickson - 20 mpg White - 20 mpg Govan - 20 mpg Mullmore - 20 mpg Hayes - 15 mpg Agau - 10 mpg Johnson - 7.5 mpg Mourning - 7.5 mpg Mosely - 7.5 mpg Campbell - 7.5 mpg Cameron - 5 mpg
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Apr 23, 2016 17:57:33 GMT -5
Interesting list. I think your bottom 5 is more accurate than mine...I may have been a little top heavy with minutes, especially with Copeland. I just don't see Peak sitting more than 5 minutes a half.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 23, 2016 18:09:25 GMT -5
If you play full court press you can just send wave after wave in because they will get tired quickly. And we don't really have to worry about foul trouble so we can press alot. True in the sense that we won't run out of players but if the press doesn't lead to a lot turnovers (it didn't last year), then the fouls just lead to the problem we had this year of giving our opponents tons of free throws. The press is fine if it's effective at its purpose. Last year, it was effective sometimes against weaker teams but not the better ones. Unless it gets a lot better, pressing won't be the answer. Of course, if it does get better then it would be a great tool to have.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 23, 2016 18:46:11 GMT -5
One thing is for sure if everyone stays healthy, this is a great problem to have. It will be a headache too for the coach, but, yeah, you got a point. It's a headache that every coach in the country in every sport would sign up for vs the opposite.
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professorhoya
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2016 19:31:05 GMT -5
If you play full court press you can just send wave after wave in because they will get tired quickly. And we don't really have to worry about foul trouble so we can press alot. True in the sense that we won't run out of players but if the press doesn't lead to a lot turnovers (it didn't last year), then the fouls just lead to the problem we had this year of giving our opponents tons of free throws. The press is fine if it's effective at its purpose. Last year, it was effective sometimes against weaker teams but not the better ones. Unless it gets a lot better, pressing won't be the answer. Of course, if it does get better then it would be a great tool to have. Well we didn't have the personnel to run a real press last year. You want length, height, and athleticism to run a turnover creating press. You can't run that with DSR (slow), Cameron (slow and bad defense), and Tre Campbell (short and bad defensive). The best you can do with any of those guys in the press is to run 5 seconds off the clock.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Apr 23, 2016 20:39:48 GMT -5
There is no way we play this many players during conference play. JT3 is slow to substitute because he wants the guys on the floor to work through things.
Also we will have Pryor, Hayes, Cameron and potentially LJ, Copeland, and Govan leave after next year.
Mosely, Johnson, and Mourning are on the outside of the rotation looking in. Too many SG, SF on the roster and already 2 very good big men. Agau should play because it seems that he will be able to play the 4 when Copeland sits. Derrickson may play some, but we need rebounding.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 23, 2016 21:15:34 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say what happens in practice and scrimmages will determine much of this. Those who look like starters right now still have to prove that they can knock down shots and play defense. I prescribe to the idea of letting their performance on the court determine who starts and how much playing time a player gets. one thing is for certain, barring any injuries, they will all get to play at least 30+ in practice.
Yes, we are talking practice.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2016 21:27:01 GMT -5
Mosely, Johnson, and Mourning are on the outside of the rotation looking in. Too many SG, SF on the roster and already 2 very good big men. Agau should play because it seems that he will be able to play the 4 when Copeland sits. Derrickson may play some, but we need rebounding. And Mourning won't be able to? He's already proven he can.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2016 21:29:58 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say what happens in practice and scrimmages will determine much of this. Those who look like starters right now still have to prove that they can knock down shots and play defense... and drive to the hoopTweaked it for ya.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 24, 2016 6:58:48 GMT -5
I strongly believe the most minutes will go to guys that are at least passable defenders.
Obviously, this hasn't really changed the back court situation. I think it's incredibly unlikely LJ plays less than 30 MPG. After that, I think the minutes depend on who among the guards is really ready to contribute at a high level. We've got Mosely, Pryor, and Mullmore, and none of us really knows what any will bring. If they're all ready to contribute at a high level? Well, I think you'll see a lot of three-guard lineups so that two of them can be playing at nearly all times. If two are ready (as seems most likely)? You'll probably see a mix of two and three guard sets. And if just one is ready, you'll obviously see two guard sets. Either way, unless NONE is a key contributor, Tre's minutes necessarily go down a ton (unless he has improved a ton) and I think it's unlikely Kaleb gets significantly more minutes than he got last year.
The front court decisions depend, in part, on what happens in the back court, because it'll change depending on whether we need two bigs or three. I expect Brad and Jesse to essentially split time at the five, though I'd prefer Jesse get a bit more of it. And I expect Trey to be the third center. So, essentially the same as this year. That leaves Marcus, Ike, Paul, Agau, Reggie, and Trey (in roughly that order) to get minutes at one or two other slots.
My guess? I think we are most successful if the following becomes our core lineup:
5: Govan 20-25; Brad 15-20; Trey 2-5 4: Marcus 20; Agau 10; Ike 8; Reggie 2 3: Paul 15; LJ 15; Ike 10; 2: LJ 15; Mullmore 15; Mosely 8; Kaleb 2 1: Pryor 25; Campbell 10; Mullmore 3; Mosely 2
Something like that.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Apr 24, 2016 9:46:23 GMT -5
Good analysis. The only scenario I see LJ playing less than 30 mpg is if he repeatedly gets into foul trouble again this year. He seemed to improve in that area the latter part of the season....I am hoping this doesn't become an issue.
If I were to be picky, I think Ike gets far more than 18 minutes a game. Also, I see Pryor getting quite a bit of run at the 2 slot....probably more there than he gets at the 1. The reverse would hold true for Mullmore...he's get most of his minutes at the 1.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Apr 24, 2016 10:18:13 GMT -5
Once we get into Big East play, I have a feeling that Cameron and Mourning are not going to be getting anything except garbage time minutes. Unless Mulmore and Mosely prove to be incapable of playing PG, I think Campbell will also be squeezed out of any meaningful BE minutes. And I just don't see there being any BE minutes for Kaleb either - Pryor is a very similar kind of player, and much more proven/experienced.
I actually think it would be smart for Kaleb to request to redshirt this season, if we did these kind of strategic redshirts. He would be better off sitting out this season then having three more years, instead of playing very few minutes this season then only having 2 years left. Plus if he redshirts this year, he could transfer to another school for his final season (if he graduates in 4 years, as he presumably will) if he thinks there is a better playing opportunity somewhere else.
I think we'll have 10 guys playing pretty much all the minutes in BE play: Mulmore, Peak, Pryor, Hayes, Copeland, Mosely, White, Govan, Derrickson, and Agau. And it may be that one of the forwards in that group gets pretty much squeezed out of meaningful playing time as well. It is tough to run a consistent 10 man rotation, even if you play a very aggressive/fast paced game. To try to get regular minutes for more than 10 guys just does not seem like a workable strategy, even if you are playing a very aggressive/uptempo style.
The minutes could look something like this for BE play:
Mulmore- 20 Peak - 30 Pryor - 25 Copeland - 25 Hayes - 20 Mosely - 10 White - 20 Derrickson- 20 Govan - 20 Agau - 10 (but this presumes that Peak plays PG for 10 minutes a game. if he can't do that - mulmore/mosely need to play 10 more minutes a game, and I am not sure where Agau might find any minutes in that scenario)
Everyone else - nothing but garbage time. Maybe campbell gets 5-10 minutes if the Mulmore/Mosely combo cannot hold down the PG spot
all this is of course complete conjecture, and the playing time could go a hundred different ways depending on how things develop over the next 7 months or so.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 24, 2016 13:51:58 GMT -5
For the entire season of 2015-2016 Mourning shot 52% from the field overall and almost 65% from 2-point range. In conference play those numbers respectively were 53% and 63%. He shot so well from the 2-point range not because of dunks, fastbreaks or backdoor layups. He shot that well from 2-point range because of arguably the most automatic midrange jumpshot on the team last season. He did this despite only averaging 6 minutes a game (in the game he actually got in that is) and thus never having the minutes to get more acclimated to the high level of play. The coaches have already been quoted claiming they think he has tremendous upside. So what is it exactly about him that makes the vast majority of you guys think he is or should be at the way end of the bench? Perception? Something he actually did wrong when playing compared to his other teammates?
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 24, 2016 14:02:30 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say what happens in practice and scrimmages will determine much of this. Those who look like starters right now still have to prove that they can knock down shots and play defense... and drive to the hoopTweaked it for ya. Well, I was thinking that we have Peak and Cope, and maybe even Johnson. Don't you think that the guys we have coming in will improve us in this area?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 24, 2016 14:48:21 GMT -5
Tweaked it for ya. Well, I was thinking that we have Peak and Cope, and maybe even Johnson. Don't you think that the guys we have coming in will improve us in this area? Pryor for sure. But I was just trying to emphasize that our players, all of them, shouldn't settle for jumpers, particularly when they aren't falling.
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BigmanU
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Post by BigmanU on Apr 24, 2016 21:29:27 GMT -5
I strongly believe the most minutes will go to guys that are at least passable defenders. Obviously, this hasn't really changed the back court situation. I think it's incredibly unlikely LJ plays less than 30 MPG. After that, I think the minutes depend on who among the guards is really ready to contribute at a high level. We've got Mosely, Pryor, and Mullmore, and none of us really knows what any will bring. If they're all ready to contribute at a high level? Well, I think you'll see a lot of three-guard lineups so that two of them can be playing at nearly all times. If two are ready (as seems most likely)? You'll probably see a mix of two and three guard sets. And if just one is ready, you'll obviously see two guard sets. Either way, unless NONE is a key contributor, Tre's minutes necessarily go down a ton (unless he has improved a ton) and I think it's unlikely Kaleb gets significantly more minutes than he got last year. The front court decisions depend, in part, on what happens in the back court, because it'll change depending on whether we need two bigs or three. I expect Brad and Jesse to essentially split time at the five, though I'd prefer Jesse get a bit more of it. And I expect Trey to be the third center. So, essentially the same as this year. That leaves Marcus, Ike, Paul, Agau, Reggie, and Trey (in roughly that order) to get minutes at one or two other slots. My guess? I think we are most successful if the following becomes our core lineup: 5: Govan 20-25; Brad 15-20; Trey 2-5 4: Marcus 20; Agau 10; Ike 8; Reggie 2 3: Paul 15; LJ 15; Ike 10; 2: LJ 15; Mullmore 15; Mosely 8; Kaleb 2 1: Pryor 25; Campbell 10; Mullmore 3; Mosely 2 Something like that. Pryor is not playing the 1 spot. He's a 3 in a three guard set and the 2 in a two guard set.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 25, 2016 0:30:39 GMT -5
Mourning shot well, but he also had major weaknesses. For one he committed fouls at a rate of 9.9 per 40 minutes (worst aside from Riyan Williams). In addition to the problems it causes, that alone would limit Mourning to 20 minutes or less per game.
He also turned it over a lot (on 27.8% of possessions - only Riyan Williams was worse), which drove his efficiency down to 93.8. So, like almost everyone on the team he's got a lot to work on before he will be able to log a lot of minutes.
Also, Mourning's shooting was good but a very small sample size. He was 11-17 on twos and 1-6 on threes. Again, that's not to say Mourning won't deserve time but he's got a lot of work to do.
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Post by trillesthoya on Apr 25, 2016 1:10:40 GMT -5
Mourning shot well, but he also had major weaknesses. For one he committed fouls at a rate of 9.9 per 40 minutes (worst aside from Riyan Williams). In addition to the problems it causes, that alone would limit Mourning to 20 minutes or less per game. He also turned it over a lot (on 27.8% of possessions - only Riyan Williams was worse), which drove his efficiency down to 93.8. So, like almost everyone on the team he's got a lot to work on before he will be able to log a lot of minutes. Also, Mourning's shooting was good but a very small sample size. He was 11-17 on twos and 1-6 on threes. Again, that's not to say Mourning won't deserve time but he's got a lot of work to do. The fouling doesn't concern me too much. He was often put into the line up specifically to foul at the end of games when the people ahead of him in the lineup had picked up too many. Turnovers are often an indicator of lack of on-court experience which he obviously unfortunately has. Also his shooting showed pretty good form and the basic motions there to build off of. I don't think Mourning will be able to crack the line up this year but that's honestly just because of how much skill we have ahead of him and not anything as to his capabilities.
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