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Post by trillesthoya on Apr 7, 2016 15:41:38 GMT -5
Kansas doesn't want to take the risk of losing to a mid-major
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 7, 2016 16:01:14 GMT -5
I would have preferred to keep the game, but I can see why Georgetown might not want it. Last year, given the quality of our team, the OOC schedule was too tough. Granted, I think the staff (and most of us) thought our team would be better, so there was a good reason to schedule that way. While I do think we will have a better team this coming year, I also think it is counterproductive to have an OOC that's so strong that you can lose a ton of the games.
The game at Kansas would have been an almost-certain loss. Given that we already have a bunch of tough games, I can see why we might want to take it off the schedule and perhaps replace it with someone easier.
As somebody else said above, by the end of the season, nobody is going to care whether we played Kansas. If we have a good season and beat some of the other good OOC opponents, then nobody will care. If we are bad and lose a lot, then nobody will care either. Obviously, if we did win at Kansas there would be a lot of upside (and why I would have preferred to keep the game), but I can understand why JT3 might not want the game.
Really, I think this is one of those small blips that ultimately won't matter in any way.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Apr 7, 2016 16:19:07 GMT -5
I don't think the impact will be substantial given the tough schedule we already have and I am OK with the cancellation at the theoretical level. However, I really hope there was some logistical reason behind the cancellation. If the game was cancelled because Georgetown didn't want to risk an almost certain loss given the tough schedule, then that says a lot about the state of the program and is really disheartening.
Hell, another loss to a top 5 team this past year wouldn't have mattered much given that the team couldn't beat anyone other than SJU and DePaul to close out the season. Geez, I really hope last season was an anomaly. Gulp.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 7, 2016 16:24:12 GMT -5
To me this is a clear indication that JT3 is feeling the heat and didn't want to risk another OOC loss. This year's pre-conference debacle essentially put the team behind the 8-ball and we would have had to go 11-7 or so in conference to have a chance at the NCAAs. With next year's OOC schedule already tough, probably smart not to schedule this potential loss.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Apr 7, 2016 16:48:59 GMT -5
Kansas doesn't want to take the risk of losing to a mid-major standalone yeah its not a good look but they have a tough enough sched next year. what was it - home and home, skip a year then resume? aren't they resuming a series with Duke as well?
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Apr 7, 2016 17:04:05 GMT -5
Terrible optics, terrible for the gate at Verizon, even worse if they did this because we're actually afraid to lose and/or Kansas thinks we're beneath them. This was the kind of series you want to schedule and keep going forward. Also costs me my trip to Phog Allen. Just lousy.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 7, 2016 17:11:46 GMT -5
To me this is a clear indication that JT3 is feeling the heat and didn't want to risk another OOC loss. This year's pre-conference debacle essentially put the team behind the 8-ball and we would have had to go 11-7 or so in conference to have a chance at the NCAAs. With next year's OOC schedule already tough, probably smart not to schedule this potential loss. Or not. Has there ever been an indication that JT3 has ever been afraid of scheduling teams OOC?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 7, 2016 17:20:41 GMT -5
aren't they resuming a series with Duke as well? I don't believe there is any Duke series, though there has been chatter about it over time. We last played them on our own in 2010 (which was a nice win!). Of course, we played them this past season, but that was part of the 2K classic. I think it would be great to have a series with Duke, but I don't expect that'll happen.
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 7, 2016 17:34:22 GMT -5
I would have preferred to keep the game, but I can see why Georgetown might not want it. Last year, given the quality of our team, the OOC schedule was too tough. Granted, I think the staff (and most of us) thought our team would be better, so there was a good reason to schedule that way. While I do think we will have a better team this coming year, I also think it is counterproductive to have an OOC that's so strong that you can lose a ton of the games. The game at Kansas would have been an almost-certain loss. Given that we already have a bunch of tough games, I can see why we might want to take it off the schedule and perhaps replace it with someone easier. As somebody else said above, by the end of the season, nobody is going to care whether we played Kansas. If we have a good season and beat some of the other good OOC opponents, then nobody will care. If we are bad and lose a lot, then nobody will care either. Obviously, if we did win at Kansas there would be a lot of upside (and why I would have preferred to keep the game), but I can understand why JT3 might not want the game. Really, I think this is one of those small blips that ultimately won't matter in any way. Your rationalizations are so flipping lazy. EVERYTHING Is a "small blip" to you, and yet you fail to notice that the accumulation of all your rationalized "small blips" is resulting in the rather large collapse of a formerly great program.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 7, 2016 17:43:28 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me that next year our BE schedule will include games against 2-3 top ten teams. Coupled with the OOC games we will have a SOS as tough as anyone. In the country. Who needs Kansas.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 7, 2016 18:01:08 GMT -5
To me this is a clear indication that JT3 is feeling the heat and didn't want to risk another OOC loss. This year's pre-conference debacle essentially put the team behind the 8-ball and we would have had to go 11-7 or so in conference to have a chance at the NCAAs. With next year's OOC schedule already tough, probably smart not to schedule this potential loss. Or not. Has there ever been an indication that JT3 has ever been afraid of scheduling teams OOC?How about the offseason where he canceled a H&H with one of the few true blue-bloods? I mean honestly though...could you blame the guy for trying to ease the schedule for a roster that is still trying to gel. At this point even without Kansas, we're only going to have 5 "tune-up" games in the off-season. One of which will open the year, two probably during Exams, so that means the other 2 will have to break up games against UMD, Syracuse, UConn and the Maui tournament. Replace one of those two with Kansas and you have an OOC slate that would be harder then any other 2 month period in the country. This program needs to make the NCAA T next year. To make the NCAAT you need wins, a strong SoS isn't enough. Our SoS will be plenty strong with the opponents we have so I'm fine exchanging a competitive game for a team building game. EDIT: I would have preferred the news that it was being pushed back a year rather then purely cancelled but what can you do.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 7, 2016 18:24:45 GMT -5
I would have preferred to keep the game, but I can see why Georgetown might not want it. Last year, given the quality of our team, the OOC schedule was too tough. Granted, I think the staff (and most of us) thought our team would be better, so there was a good reason to schedule that way. While I do think we will have a better team this coming year, I also think it is counterproductive to have an OOC that's so strong that you can lose a ton of the games. The game at Kansas would have been an almost-certain loss. Given that we already have a bunch of tough games, I can see why we might want to take it off the schedule and perhaps replace it with someone easier. As somebody else said above, by the end of the season, nobody is going to care whether we played Kansas. If we have a good season and beat some of the other good OOC opponents, then nobody will care. If we are bad and lose a lot, then nobody will care either. Obviously, if we did win at Kansas there would be a lot of upside (and why I would have preferred to keep the game), but I can understand why JT3 might not want the game. Really, I think this is one of those small blips that ultimately won't matter in any way. Your rationalizations are so flipping lazy. EVERYTHING Is a "small blip" to you, and yet you fail to notice that the accumulation of all your rationalized "small blips" is resulting in the rather large collapse of a formerly great program. No, our awful fouling isn't a small blip. It's a huge problem that has only gotten worse over the last three years and the staff including JT3 must fix it. But to get back on point, I said I would have preferred to play the game. I think it would've been a great home game in two years. It's disappointing to me that we aren't playing Kansas, but no, I don't think that it's a big deal considering the other great teams we are playing. Clearly, you disagree on this and many other things, which is fine. I respect that. It is a hit for season ticket holders in 2017, as well, which stinks. In my mind that's the biggest loss in this whole thing, but maybe we will get a similar type of game in 2 years.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 7, 2016 19:06:10 GMT -5
I would have preferred to keep the game, but I can see why Georgetown might not want it. Last year, given the quality of our team, the OOC schedule was too tough. Granted, I think the staff (and most of us) thought our team would be better, so there was a good reason to schedule that way. While I do think we will have a better team this coming year, I also think it is counterproductive to have an OOC that's so strong that you can lose a ton of the games. The tough OOC games the Hoyas played last season did not disgrace the program or hurt the team, not even the losses. In fact that Hoyas team gained as much respect from the media for its closes losses at Maryland and against Duke at MSG than it did for any victory. The problem for the team were the three or four losses to mid-majors, all of them coming at home. Period. No debate about it. The Hoyas were that close to wins against Maryland and Duke (and as I wrote before much to your chagrin....good coaches come out victorious in those situations more often than III does). They had the talent to take on those teams and beat squads like Wisconsin and Syracuse, The talent was there. Are you suggesting that the Hoya coaches were going to be better only to be disappointed by them? If so maybe they should point the fingers at themselves. Nonetheless there was n shame in losing to Maryland, Duke and UConn, particularly with none of those games being played at home. But to play so badly against teams like Radford at Verizon? That was the real issue from which the team did not recover. The Hoyas' NCAA chances could sustain defeats to those elite programs, it could not handle the blow however of dropping multiple home games to much lower teams. And III's response is to cut one of the tough OOC games after what happened last season? I hope that isn't the reason why, I hope it is because of something else not yet revealed. Because otherwise it means III is growing scared and abandoning his OOC philosophy when it comes to scheduling. That would be a shame. That's the spirit.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 7, 2016 19:18:17 GMT -5
Terrible optics, terrible for the gate at Verizon, even worse if they did this because we're actually afraid to lose and/or Kansas thinks we're beneath them. This was the kind of series you want to schedule and keep going forward. Also costs me my trip to Phog Allen. Just lousy. But the good news is the program will soon come out with an official statement explaining it all. Yeah....right.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 7, 2016 19:28:05 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me that next year our BE schedule will include games against 2-3 top ten teams. Coupled with the OOC games we will have a SOS as tough as anyone. In the country. Who needs Kansas. Geez. That's not the point. You don't run away from challenges after you've already set them in motion. At the very least the optics are bad because it looks as if you are tucking your tail between your legs while running scared. Anyway here's a solution for how III can solve his tough schedule problems: beat more of the tough teams and stop the losses to the lousy ones.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 7, 2016 20:16:44 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me that next year our BE schedule will include games against 2-3 top ten teams. Coupled with the OOC games we will have a SOS as tough as anyone. In the country. Who needs Kansas. Geez. That's not the point. You don't run away from challenges after you've already set them in motion. At the very least the optics are bad because it looks as if you are tucking your tail between your legs while running scared. Anyway here's a solution for how III can solve his tough schedule problems: beat more of the tough teams and stop the losses to the lousy ones. Gee. Wish I'd thought of that.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 7, 2016 21:10:12 GMT -5
Geez. That's not the point. You don't run away from challenges after you've already set them in motion. At the very least the optics are bad because it looks as if you are tucking your tail between your legs while running scared. Anyway here's a solution for how III can solve his tough schedule problems: beat more of the tough teams and stop the losses to the lousy ones. Gee. Wish I'd thought of that. But alas it doesn't seem so obvious to the folks here who would rather run and hide from tough competition rather than embrace the challenge and win. So if I have to throw in some salty sarcasm to make a point then so be it.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Apr 7, 2016 21:32:40 GMT -5
To me this is a clear indication that JT3 is feeling the heat Allow me to refer you to a now-124-page thread explaining why that isn't a thing. As for the cancelled game, wasn't this supposedly a mutual decision? If you take that at face value (allow me to refer you to a message board...), that suggests more of a logistical issue than anybody ducking out on anybody.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Apr 7, 2016 21:39:25 GMT -5
What's pathetic to me isn't that Georgetown is tucking its tail between its legs and running...what's pathetic is the number of so-called fans here that assume III is just being chicken. It's ridiculous and makes you look ridiculous.
I've read through this thread and looked elsewhere, and I haven't seen a single explanation of why. Not one. If someone has seen something, by all means, direct me to it. It could be any number of different reasons from the Georgetown or Kansas side, but I find it very unlikely it's because III didn't want to face a tough opponent.
Some of you seriously need to get over yourselves. Not everything fits into your neat little narrative. There's plenty to be angry/upset/dejected about with this program (plenty to feel good about too, but that's another discussion).
But when you take something like this and without a single shred of evidence blow it completely out of proportion and twist it to how you want it to be, you just look like...a bunch of idiots. Whiny little kids.
I've read this board since 2000. Posted infrequently. But this nonsense is just about enough. I used to appreciate or learn from posters like MCI, but you've gone off the deep end. Take a deep breath. Not everything indicates that we are going down the drain.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 7, 2016 22:09:33 GMT -5
The tough OOC games the Hoyas played last season did not disgrace the program or hurt the team, not even the losses. In fact that Hoyas team gained as much respect from the media for its closes losses at Maryland and against Duke at MSG than it did for any victory. The problem for the team were the three or four losses to mid-majors, all of them coming at home. Period. No debate about it. The Hoyas were that close to wins against Maryland and Duke (and as I wrote before much to your chagrin....good coaches come out victorious in those situations more often than III does). They had the talent to take on those teams and beat squads like Wisconsin and Syracuse, The talent was there. Are you suggesting that the Hoya coaches were going to be better only to be disappointed by them? If so maybe they should point the fingers at themselves. Nonetheless there was n shame in losing to Maryland, Duke and UConn, particularly with none of those games being played at home. But to play so badly against teams like Radford at Verizon? That was the real issue from which the team did not recover. The Hoyas' NCAA chances could sustain defeats to those elite programs, it could not handle the blow however of dropping multiple home games to much lower teams. And III's response is to cut one of the tough OOC games after what happened last season? I hope that isn't the reason why, I hope it is because of something else not yet revealed. Because otherwise it means III is growing scared and abandoning his OOC philosophy when it comes to scheduling. That would be a shame. We agree on a few things: - I agree that playing good teams like Maryland, Duke, or Kansas does no harm. - I agree that the loss to Radford was bad, as was the loss to UNC Asheville. I also agree those losses hurt us a lot. Really, I think if we had beat those two, plus Monmouth (who really wasn't a bad team), we likely would have had to only go 10-8 in the Big East. Of course, we didn't, but we would have had a lot more wiggle room that would have been nice toward the end of the season. The thing is before the Northeastern loss in 2014, JT3 literally never had a "bad" OOC loss. So were the losses bad? Yes, but even if you count those three plus Northeastern, that's 4 bad OOC losses in 12 seasons. Still, losses like that are unacceptable and must be avoided going forward. - We don't know why the Kansas game was cut, as you indicate. - It would be a shame if JT3 changed his OOC scheduling philosophy. I like that he's always scheduled good teams and opponents. Where we might disagree: - There's really no indication to suggest that JT3's scheduling philosophy has changed or he's growing scared. Next year, we are playing Maryland, Syracuse, and UConn. We are also playing 3 games in Hawaii that will include a monster field: Connecticut, Georgetown, North Carolina, Oklahoma State, Oregon, Tennessee and Wisconsin (and host Chaminade). Plus, if Maryland isn't part of the Big 10 challenge we'd get another high-major opponent. Really, even without Kansas this is a super stacked schedule. The following year, we should have at least the Big 10 challenge, Syracuse, and the Portland Nike tournament, which will also be stacked. I would have loved to have Kansas too, but if JT3 was trying to change his philosophy it really wouldn't even be evident until 2018-2019. All we know is that the game was cancelled with "mutual" agreement. It very well could have been that it became a scheduling conflict for both schools and it was the easiest solution (keep in mind, when the Kansas series was set up, we didn't have the Big 10/Maryland, Connecticut, or Syracuse games lined up). I mean, last year, the series was put off for scheduling purposes another year - the same thing could have easily happened. As a fan, yes, I believe we could win anywhere. And I would certainly be rooting for the team at Kansas. Realistically, as I noted in another thread, Kansas has not lost at home since January 5, 2014. They lost one home game in 2013, one in 2011, and then you have go back to 2007 for the next home loss. In the last 10 seasons, they've lost 4 home games. I mean, this year alone they beat at home: Oklahoma, Texas, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Iowa State. They've beat a number of incredibly good teams in that stretch. They've got one of the best home court advantages in all of sports. So realistically, yes, I do think it would be a loss - just as it would be for just about any other team visiting Kansas. (To clarify one thing: I do not think losing the Kansas game is a huge deal because it's one game, and we already have many other good OOC games; if it was our only good OOC game I would feel differently. While I do think the odds would be stacked against us away at Kansas, that's not why I think it isn't a big deal that we don't have the game anymore. And as a personal matter, as I've said multiple times above, I wish we would have kept the Kansas games on the schedule.)
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