hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 5, 2016 13:00:30 GMT -5
I think I'd probably rate talent as the #1 key. Don't know how you'd disagree with that. Well, consider Pete Rose. Universally acknowledged to be modestly talented -- throughout the course of his career he was forced to change positions multiple times. Yet, achieved all he did via ""hunger and passion" which was labelled at the time as "hustle." As far as GU goes, certainly C Josh Smith demonstrated considerable "hunger" Modestly talented? Sounds like the "experts" on this board. I hated him (in a sports sense), but Pete was a beast!
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 5, 2016 15:04:43 GMT -5
Well, consider Pete Rose. Universally acknowledged to be modestly talented -- throughout the course of his career he was forced to change positions multiple times. Yet, achieved all he did via ""hunger and passion" which was labelled at the time as "hustle." As far as GU goes, certainly C Josh Smith demonstrated considerable "hunger" Pete Rose was extremely talented. "Hunger and passion" alone doesn't take you from modest talent to being one of the best hitters ever. That doesn't mean he didn't hustle or work hard, but a lot of other guys do too, and they don't get 4,000+ hits. With all due respect, I don't remember Pete Rose having a ton of talent. He certainly couldn't compare to a Ricky Henderson or a Ken Griffy. But I do remember his hustle and his treating each at bat as his last, to quote Iverson. I agree that you cant teach these qualities, but you can certainly look for their seeds and encourage them. Quite frankly, I think the absence of these things stem from the pampered and soft so many of our youth live today. yes, I'll say it, they lack that fire in their belly.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 5, 2016 15:05:56 GMT -5
By the way, Pete Rose is an excellent example of the kind of team mate I would like to have on my team any day.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Apr 5, 2016 15:27:59 GMT -5
The season is OVER! The Hoyas were behind in some games and showed passion, (guards inconsistently) sense of urgency, hunger and definitely have athleticism from what I've seen. I cannot speak for everyone. What the Hoyas didn't have is good decision making and did attack on a consistent basis. Campbell needed to attack more. DSR did not consistently attack. You have to know when and how to attack. I think this is more skill and heart/passion.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 5, 2016 15:46:21 GMT -5
With all due respect, I don't remember Pete Rose having a ton of talent. Well, let's see. Pete played for 24 seasons. From 1965 to 1981, a total of 17 seasons, Pete hit over .300 15 times, led the league in hitting 3 times, in hits 7 times, in runs scored 4 times, and owns the third longest hitting streak of all time, 44 games. Pete played in an era when there were far fewer MLB teams, leading to a much greater concentration of talent in the majors. He put up those stats against some badass pitching. I could go on, but I think you get the picture now. You might want to try Ginkgo biloba. I hear it boosts memory. Now, back to the nonsense of this thread...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2016 15:47:28 GMT -5
By the way, Pete Rose is an excellent example of the kind of team mate I would like to have on my team any day. Pete Rose was a great baseball player; his character, however, leaves a lot to be desired. And, I am not referring to his gambling, etc. Generally, he has comported himself in an extremely unprofessional manner. I firmly believe that if Rose handled himself properly since he was caught, he'd already be in the Hall of Fame. Part of what keeps him out is that he acts like a jerk and shows no remorse. Personally, I would not want to share the bench with somebody of that character.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2016 15:48:08 GMT -5
By the way, Pete Rose is an excellent example of the kind of team mate I would like to have on my team any day. Then your definition of talent needs some refining.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 5, 2016 18:40:43 GMT -5
By the way, Pete Rose is an excellent example of the kind of team mate I would like to have on my team any day. Then your definition of talent needs some refining. We were not discussing talent there. We were talking about hustle and desire to win.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 6, 2016 18:20:10 GMT -5
I am always looking for those winning qualities, the qualities of great leaders, the stuff of great teams. Here is a quote from an article about Villanova, after they won the championship game:
There’s certainly something magical, as Wright put it, about this particular Villanova team. Its core is old, veterans in an age of college basketball that seems to be dominated most years by freshmen. Its roster might not have a single player who will be picked in the NBA draft’s first round, another rarity in this era.
But in the truest sense of the word team, there’s no comparison and no anomaly.
These are players who are talented individually, but significantly better when they’re together. It’s a bunch of guys, like Arcidiacono, who are more than happy to pass up the chance to score a championship-winning basket for an open teammate.
“You have to have a guy that you trust to make the right decision, not be selfish, want to be the star himself — and that's Ryan,” Wright said. “You got to have a guy that can make the shot, be smart enough to know where everybody is going to be and also be a guy that can make free throws if he gets fouled. That's Ryan.”
That’s also Hart. And Ochefu. And Booth, Brunson and everyone else. It’s who they are; it’s their family.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,321
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Post by tashoya on Apr 6, 2016 21:30:41 GMT -5
I think I'd probably rate talent as the #1 key. Don't know how you'd disagree with that. Well, consider Pete Rose. Universally acknowledged to be modestly talented -- throughout the course of his career he was forced to change positions multiple times. Yet, achieved all he did via ""hunger and passion" which was labelled at the time as "hustle." As far as GU goes, certainly C Josh Smith demonstrated considerable "hunger" You may want to look up what "universally" means. Was Pete Rose the most naturally gifted player of his generation (another posted Rickey Henderson and Junior)? No. But he was well above average. Even Don Mattingly would be impressed by how few times Rose struck out per year. The man was good for around 200 hits per year in the prime of his career. Passion and hustle don't get anyone hits. Patience and selectivity coupled with ridiculous hand/eye coordination might. And being able to run helps. Rose could run a bit. He was no Henderson but he wasn't Rusty Staub either. Even bad pro baseball players bust it out of the box if they sniff a hit. That's not passion. That's playing the game.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,321
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Post by tashoya on Apr 6, 2016 21:39:23 GMT -5
I am always looking for those winning qualities, the qualities of great leaders, the stuff of great teams. Here is a quote from an article about Villanova, after they won the championship game: There’s certainly something magical, as Wright put it, about this particular Villanova team. Its core is old, veterans in an age of college basketball that seems to be dominated most years by freshmen. Its roster might not have a single player who will be picked in the NBA draft’s first round, another rarity in this era. But in the truest sense of the word team, there’s no comparison and no anomaly. These are players who are talented individually, but significantly better when they’re together. It’s a bunch of guys, like Arcidiacono, who are more than happy to pass up the chance to score a championship-winning basket for an open teammate. “You have to have a guy that you trust to make the right decision, not be selfish, want to be the star himself — and that's Ryan,” Wright said. “You got to have a guy that can make the shot, be smart enough to know where everybody is going to be and also be a guy that can make free throws if he gets fouled. That's Ryan.” That’s also Hart. And Ochefu. And Booth, Brunson and everyone else. It’s who they are; it’s their family. Please just stop. You do realize that's their own coach talking about them, right? Do you think JT3 would have much different things to say about his own guys? The difference is the winning. They played great defense. Ours was terrible. Put our guys in a shoot around against theirs and I really like our chances. Run defensive drills? We're toast. Too many guys with slow feet and not good enough fundamentals to compensate. 2 guys out for the year and Bradley out for significant time didn't help at all either. I also find it odd that you can question the heart and desire of a group of guys that you don't know based on things you only think you know by watching your TV. Pretty big assumptions on your part. To be more clear, I think it's perfectly fine to question and critique performance on the floor. To question the character of people you don't personally know is, to me, over the line. All of the desire in the world isn't going to make DSR any more agile. Passion won't make Reggie capable of staying in front of his man. Pride isn't going to make Isaac instantly have better ball skills from one game to the next.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Apr 6, 2016 23:32:26 GMT -5
I'm surprised that we are talking so much about Pete Rose on this board but I'll say he is and should be a Hall of Famer and the fact he's not is the joke that the baseball HOF is. Far worse guys then him already in and will be put in for worse offenses and cheating scandals than his. Holds the top hitting record in baseball (4,256).
I don't know the point of this thread as I'm confused by it and agree we don't know what is running through the minds of these players. I didn't think they lacked heart just felt like they couldn't play defense which may be a talent issue, may be a coaching issue or likely a combination. Offensively, they were all wrong all year and didn't feel like we ran the right system to let our more talented players (e.g. LJ) play to their strengths. As good as DSR is/was I think he held back the development and confidence of some of the younger guys who would have stepped up.
Hoping (I) our coaching staff does some soul searching and figures some (or many) things out based on our futility, (II) our players that return improve and become the players we thought they'd be last year and (III) we right this ship quickly versus having another year next year similar to this which won't happen if I and II don't happen as we don't have much net add coming into the program.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 7, 2016 1:19:45 GMT -5
I am always looking for those winning qualities, the qualities of great leaders, the stuff of great teams. Here is a quote from an article about Villanova, after they won the championship game: There’s certainly something magical, as Wright put it, about this particular Villanova team. Its core is old, veterans in an age of college basketball that seems to be dominated most years by freshmen. Its roster might not have a single player who will be picked in the NBA draft’s first round, another rarity in this era. But in the truest sense of the word team, there’s no comparison and no anomaly. These are players who are talented individually, but significantly better when they’re together. It’s a bunch of guys, like Arcidiacono, who are more than happy to pass up the chance to score a championship-winning basket for an open teammate. “You have to have a guy that you trust to make the right decision, not be selfish, want to be the star himself — and that's Ryan,” Wright said. “You got to have a guy that can make the shot, be smart enough to know where everybody is going to be and also be a guy that can make free throws if he gets fouled. That's Ryan.” That’s also Hart. And Ochefu. And Booth, Brunson and everyone else. It’s who they are; it’s their family. Please just stop. You do realize that's their own coach talking about them, right? Do you think JT3 would have much different things to say about his own guys? The difference is the winning. They played great defense. Ours was terrible. Put our guys in a shoot around against theirs and I really like our chances. Run defensive drills? We're toast. Too many guys with slow feet and not good enough fundamentals to compensate. 2 guys out for the year and Bradley out for significant time didn't help at all either. I also find it odd that you can question the heart and desire of a group of guys that you don't know based on things you only think you know by watching your TV. Pretty big assumptions on your part. To be more clear, I think it's perfectly fine to question and critique performance on the floor. To question the character of people you don't personally know is, to me, over the line. All of the desire in the world isn't going to make DSR any more agile. Passion won't make Reggie capable of staying in front of his man. Pride isn't going to make Isaac instantly have better ball skills from one game to the next. You know, you suffer from what so man posters have on this board. If I were to respond to all of your errors and mistaken views of what I said originally, I too would end up writing totally flawed essays that turn out to be nothing but shrill whistling in the wind. Suffice it to say that I am not questioning anybody's heart. I started this discussion by simply saying that these were observations that I had made from watching the tournament. And I was trying to engage other philosophically minded individuals to reflect on them in connection with our guys. I think I also said that our guys were young and experienced so it was rather unfair to compare them to other teams--like Villanova--that has so much depth and experience. Like every thing else that I have written on this board, you keep watching and reading long enough and the same comment and belief/sentiment usually pop up simply worded slightly differently. Again, I was watching the tournament. What I saw was a whole lot of passion, hunger, athleticism, focus, basketball intelligence. I still do believe these are qualities that lead to teams playing well into March and others watching these teams march on in March. As I said before, I am not going to take you on point by point. Observations. Feelings. Ramblings. Speculations. Critique. Conjectures. Silly stuff. All the stuff that this board is. That's all. Much Respect!
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