SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by SaxaCD on Feb 9, 2016 20:38:03 GMT -5
CAN he reach second? Do they really have to put mourning in a black and white picture.. Its not that long ago... geez I think color is for "current Hoyas" -- one coach and one player. That's how I'm reading it so I don't feel as old.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Feb 10, 2016 10:30:40 GMT -5
Unfortunately for DSR, the team's success over his 4 years was not particularly strong. No BET crown. No Sweet 16 appearances. And we may be headed to the NIT in his senior year. I love his numbers and consistency over 4 years, but I think he necessarily falls below some of the great Hoya guards who were able to post impressive statistical numbers along with team success. As far as guards go, limited to the modern era, I put Derrick Jackson, Duren, Sleepy, Michael Jackson, Wingate, Smitty, and AI comfortably ahead of DSR. I think DSR, Victor Page, Mark Tillmon, Wallace, Freeman, and Wright comprise a second grouping of Hoya guard greats. I like this ranking, However, although he only played two years, I really think Victor Page was a phenomenal talent, and definitely above DSR...especially considering how much tougher the Big East was in those days. I would put Victor in the first tier. My recall of Derrick Jackson is limited to a few memories...my impression is that he would fit well in that second tier of Hoya greats. Jackson is a closer call than perhaps I indicated. His statistics are very strong, although hampered with some injuries. Perhaps nostalgically, I give great deference to Derrick Jackson, Merlin Wilson, John Duren, Craig Shelton, and Sleepy Floyd who, in 4-5 successive seasons, really were the core that built the program to the point when JT could credibly walk into Patrick Ewing's home and seal the deal. Derrick was a real talent and a great shooter.
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MassHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by MassHoya on Feb 10, 2016 11:49:53 GMT -5
Derrick Jackson is definitely a first tier choice. His stats were earned before the three point shot. They would have been substantially higher as many of his shots would have been 3's. Great all around person and a better human being. A true Hoya great.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 10, 2016 13:17:16 GMT -5
I like this ranking, However, although he only played two years, I really think Victor Page was a phenomenal talent, and definitely above DSR...especially considering how much tougher the Big East was in those days. I would put Victor in the first tier. My recall of Derrick Jackson is limited to a few memories...my impression is that he would fit well in that second tier of Hoya greats. Jackson is a closer call than perhaps I indicated. His statistics are very strong, although hampered with some injuries. Perhaps nostalgically, I give great deference to Derrick Jackson, Merlin Wilson, John Duren, Craig Shelton, and Sleepy Floyd who, in 4-5 successive seasons, really were the core that built the program to the point when JT could credibly walk into Patrick Ewing's home and seal the deal. Derrick was a real talent and a great shooter. Largely, I agree with the points made in this thread. But I think we are underestimating DSR... because he is here with us right now, and because the teams he has played on are nowhere near the teams the players cited above were on: Duren, Shelton, Sleepy - were all on the same team. Wingate, Michael Jackson, Charles Smith and Iverson all had very strong teams. DSR is not the best defender, although he has certainly had his moments, his steals and some key blocks. But DSR can score. Not just with the 3, but driving, pull-ups, step backs, earning FTs, the guy is a scoring wonder. One name that always seems to get lost - maybe because his first two years were more impressive than his second two, is Jonathan "Swift" Smith. He and Merlin "the Magician" Wilson arrived together in JT2's first class. Georgetown had never had a guard remotely like Smith. Smooth, athletic, and lightning quick. He and Wilson together changed the perception of what GU could be, what a Hoya looked like and the kind of basketball that would be played on the hilltop. Derrick Jackson was even better/more consistent than Smith. But in my memory, Smith started the chain of outstanding Hoya guards at "Big Man U". For me, the links start with Jon Smith, then Derrick Jackson, Duren, Floyd... followed by guys like Brown, Wingate, Michael Jackson, later Charles Smith, Bryant and Tillmon, and finally... Allen Iverson. There were plenty of other cats too, like Gene Smith, Eric Smith, and more. More on Jonathan Smith: Notable: Led team in scoring three straight years, one of only nine times in GU history a single player has done so. Ranked 15th all-time in scoring. Jonathan Smith began his career on a Georgetown team coming off a 3-23 season. He ended it with consecutive ECAC championships and two NCAA bids. Smith later went on to serve in the State Department, and spoke of Coach Thompson's impact upon his life.
"My relationship with Coach Thompson," Smith said, taught me how to deal with life. He impressed upon me that I could not put everything in one basket; he made me work around existing conditions so they would benefit me. [He] made me come to grips with life as a man."Smith - #32 on GU's all time Top 100 Players: www.hoyabasketball.com/features/top100/j_smith.htm
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Feb 10, 2016 18:17:00 GMT -5
Jackson is a closer call than perhaps I indicated. His statistics are very strong, although hampered with some injuries. Perhaps nostalgically, I give great deference to Derrick Jackson, Merlin Wilson, John Duren, Craig Shelton, and Sleepy Floyd who, in 4-5 successive seasons, really were the core that built the program to the point when JT could credibly walk into Patrick Ewing's home and seal the deal. Derrick was a real talent and a great shooter. Largely, I agree with the points made in this thread. But I think we are underestimating DSR... because he is here with us right now, and because the teams he has played on are nowhere near the teams the players cited above were on: Duren, Shelton, Sleepy - were all on the same team. Wingate, Michael Jackson, Charles Smith and Iverson all had very strong teams. DSR is not the best defender, although he has certainly had his moments, his steals and some key blocks. But DSR can score. Not just with the 3, but driving, pull-ups, step backs, earning FTs, the guy is a scoring wonder. One name that always seems to get lost - maybe because his first two years were more impressive than his second two, is Jonathan "Swift" Smith. He and Merlin "the Magician" Wilson arrived together in JT2's first class. Georgetown had never had a guard remotely like Smith. Smooth, athletic, and lightning quick. He and Wilson together changed the perception of what GU could be, what a Hoya looked like and the kind of basketball that would be played on the hilltop. Derrick Jackson was even better/more consistent than Smith. But in my memory, Smith started the chain of outstanding Hoya guards at "Big Man U". For me, the links start with Jon Smith, then Derrick Jackson, Duren, Floyd... followed by guys like Brown, Wingate, Michael Jackson, later Charles Smith, Bryant and Tillmon, and finally... Allen Iverson. There were plenty of other cats too, like Gene Smith, Eric Smith, and more. More on Jonathan Smith: Notable: Led team in scoring three straight years, one of only nine times in GU history a single player has done so. Ranked 15th all-time in scoring. Jonathan Smith began his career on a Georgetown team coming off a 3-23 season. He ended it with consecutive ECAC championships and two NCAA bids. Smith later went on to serve in the State Department, and spoke of Coach Thompson's impact upon his life.
"My relationship with Coach Thompson," Smith said, taught me how to deal with life. He impressed upon me that I could not put everything in one basket; he made me work around existing conditions so they would benefit me. [He] made me come to grips with life as a man."SirSaxa - I totally agree on Smith and definitely would place him among that second grouping of Hoya guard greats. If I am underestimating DSR, who among the first group would you replace with DSR. He has been a 4-year reliable scoring machine (and, knock on wood, incredibly healthy), but defense and lack of team success I think knocks him down from that top group. Austin Freeman was a scoring machine too, but his lack of defense and limited team success also hurts him. His overall stats were also was hurt by illness. I love DSR, but for some reason, I don't seem him among the upper echelon. At the end of the day, I have a big bias for team success. The players that rewarded us with great post-season joy rightfully earn extra lifetime kudos. Smith - #32 on GU's all time Top 100 Players: www.hoyabasketball.com/features/top100/j_smith.htm
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 10, 2016 22:42:31 GMT -5
He should also be the #1 three point shooter in Georgetown history very soon. Has 237 at this point I believe, and needs 240 to become #1 according to the Countdown to 1000 thread. What's his shooting percentage from three compared to others in CBB? I have no idea but seems like he takes a ton so not impressed that he'd be leading if he's way off on percentage.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 11, 2016 8:13:16 GMT -5
He should also be the #1 three point shooter in Georgetown history very soon. Has 237 at this point I believe, and needs 240 to become #1 according to the Countdown to 1000 thread. What's his shooting percentage from three compared to others in CBB? I have no idea but seems like he takes a ton so not impressed that he'd be leading if he's way off on percentage. DSR is a career 37% shooter. Not incredible but not a product of pure volume. 237-636. Wallace was 43%, 240-554. They also played incredibly different roles on incredibly different teams so it's hard to compare the two. Either way, to say it's not impressive is buffoonery.
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FHillsNYHoya
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Feb 11, 2016 9:25:28 GMT -5
I'm guessing DSR himself wishes he were faster or an elite-level athlete.
But to knock him as a "volume shooter" from three really is just silly. 90% or more of this board wants him to shoot MORE this year.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 11, 2016 9:38:02 GMT -5
He should also be the #1 three point shooter in Georgetown history very soon. Has 237 at this point I believe, and needs 240 to become #1 according to the Countdown to 1000 thread. What's his shooting percentage from three compared to others in CBB? I have no idea but seems like he takes a ton so not impressed that he'd be leading if he's way off on percentage. Are you really a Hoya fan? Or do you just not understand basketball in general?
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Post by goyahoya69 on Feb 11, 2016 9:42:01 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 11:54:46 GMT -5
Feb 27, 2014 at 11:11pm Deleted.
Guess who.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 12, 2016 19:14:24 GMT -5
What's his shooting percentage from three compared to others in CBB? I have no idea but seems like he takes a ton so not impressed that he'd be leading if he's way off on percentage. DSR is a career 37% shooter. Not incredible but not a product of pure volume. 237-636. Wallace was 43%, 240-554. They also played incredibly different roles on incredibly different teams so it's hard to compare the two. Either way, to say it's not impressive is buffoonery. Easy with the insults. Him being a 37% shooter from three means he shouldn't be the all time leader in attempts. He'll need another 100 attempts from the previous record holder to surpass which is pretty telling. All of you basketball geniuses can save it as you have no clue what you speak and follow blindly (Dan, I didn't say Sh...p). Let's hype an achievement (three pointers made) completely out of context and then tell someone who points some reality to it that he has no clue. Nothing new here but let's try for better. The astuteness of this crew continues to amaze.
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Post by trillesthoya on Feb 12, 2016 19:37:29 GMT -5
DSR is a career 37% shooter. Not incredible but not a product of pure volume. 237-636. Wallace was 43%, 240-554. They also played incredibly different roles on incredibly different teams so it's hard to compare the two. Either way, to say it's not impressive is buffoonery. Easy with the insults. Him being a 37% shooter from three means he shouldn't be the all time leader in attempts. He'll need another 100 attempts from the previous record holder to surpass which is pretty telling. All of you basketball geniuses can save it as you have no clue what you speak and follow blindly (Dan, I didn't say Sh...p). Let's hype an achievement (three pointers made) completely out of context and then tell someone who points some reality to it that he has no clue. Nothing new here but let's try for better. The astuteness of this crew continues to amaze. no
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 12, 2016 19:50:44 GMT -5
Easy with the insults. Him being a 37% shooter from three means he shouldn't be the all time leader in attempts. He'll need another 100 attempts from the previous record holder to surpass which is pretty telling. All of you basketball geniuses can save it as you have no clue what you speak and follow blindly (Dan, I didn't say Sh...p). Let's hype an achievement (three pointers made) completely out of context and then tell someone who points some reality to it that he has no clue. Nothing new here but let's try for better. The astuteness of this crew continues to amaze. no Lol the guy who doesn't even know what kind of a 3pt shooter DSR is or if we've won back to back games this season wants to give us a dose of "reality". Just when you thought you'd seen it all on Hoyatalk....
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 12, 2016 20:00:27 GMT -5
Lol the guy who doesn't even know what kind of a 3pt shooter DSR is or if we've won back to back games this season wants to give us a dose of "reality". Just when you thought you'd seen it all on Hoyatalk.... Stop before you continue to embarrass yourself Rock. Winning two in a row was called sarcasm for this team and you didn't understand but that's completely understandable coming from you. DSR as a great three point shooter is what is in question on this thread and I think the numbers speak for themselves. Someone said volume shooter and I think that's about right. The proportion of his shots to an average completion percentage is not something to celebrate. Just think about 100 more shots to equal the person he's trying to pass for three's made.
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Post by bicentennial on Feb 12, 2016 20:05:50 GMT -5
I think the dominance of the 82-85 GU teams aside, DSR compares favorably to almost all other guards. Yes he took a lot more 3 point shots than Wallace but he never had the Luxury of Jeff Green's passes for wide open three point shots. Considering some of the late in the shot clock thress DSR has been forced to take in his career, his percentage from 3 is pretty remarkable. For a guard to be anywhere near 500 rebounds in a career at GU is pretty remarkable. Considering that with his number of assists, his number of points, his number of minutes played and his resilience, we have been witnessing a rare guard at GU. There is no question with a lower usage rate and someone reliable to assist him, our teams would have been better but that is not on DSR, rather on our coaching staff. DSR has done everything for the teams he has been on. With more help, he could have brought some long needed NCAA wins.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 12, 2016 20:14:28 GMT -5
I think the dominance of the 82-85 GU teams aside, DSR compares favorably to almost all other guards. Yes he took a lot more 3 point shots than Wallace but he never had the Luxury of Jeff Green's passes for wide open three point shots. Considering some of the late in the shot clock thress DSR has been forced to take in his career, his percentage from 3 is pretty remarkable. For a guard to be anywhere near 500 rebounds in a career at GU is pretty remarkable. Considering that with his number of assists, his number of points, his number of minutes played and his resilience, we have been witnessing a rare guard at GU. There is no question with a lower usage rate and someone reliable to assist him, our teams would have been better but that is not on DSR, rather on our coaching staff. DSR has done everything for the teams he has been on. With more help, he could have brought some long needed NCAA wins. Those are good points but don't think he's an elite 3 point shooter to be celebrated for making the most in Hoya history which was the point being debated. I do think he's been a good guard for four years and I'm not sure how we replace his leadership and ball handling next year. However, I've seen many good guards leave and we've seemed to find our way which may open things up for some others to step up or at least I hope so.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 12, 2016 20:30:31 GMT -5
Lol the guy who doesn't even know what kind of a 3pt shooter DSR is or if we've won back to back games this season wants to give us a dose of "reality". Just when you thought you'd seen it all on Hoyatalk.... Stop before you continue to embarrass yourself Rock. Winning two in a row was called sarcasm for this team and you didn't understand but that's completely understandable coming from you. DSR as a great three point shooter is what is in question on this thread and I think the numbers speak for themselves. Someone said volume shooter and I think that's about right. The proportion of his shots to an average completion percentage is not something to celebrate. Just think about 100 more shots to equal the person he's trying to pass for three's made. Seriously, who do you think you are? First of all, you called it a serious question whether we had won two in a row. So way to be revisionist deleted. But I expect that from you. And secondly, just no. YOU have no idea what you're talking about.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 12, 2016 20:43:45 GMT -5
Stop before you continue to embarrass yourself Rock. Winning two in a row was called sarcasm for this team and you didn't understand but that's completely understandable coming from you. DSR as a great three point shooter is what is in question on this thread and I think the numbers speak for themselves. Someone said volume shooter and I think that's about right. The proportion of his shots to an average completion percentage is not something to celebrate. Just think about 100 more shots to equal the person he's trying to pass for three's made. Seriously, who do you think you are? First of all, you called it a serious question whether we had won two in a row. So way to be revisionist deleted. But I expect that from you. And secondly, just no. YOU have no idea what you're talking about. Who called it a serious question - I don't recall designated it serious? I think that you took it as one which says all we need to know that at least you (I'll give others the benefit of the doubt) were worried about the answer and just relieved to say we did win two in a row. Get a clue...... (I'm not stooping to name calling as you do - it would be easy but I respect our Mod's too much for that).
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 12, 2016 22:11:40 GMT -5
Seriously, who do you think you are? First of all, you called it a serious question whether we had won two in a row. So way to be revisionist deleted. But I expect that from you. And secondly, just no. YOU have no idea what you're talking about. Who called it a serious question - I don't recall designated it serious? I think that you took it as one which says all we need to know that at least you (I'll give others the benefit of the doubt) were worried about the answer and just relieved to say we did win two in a row. Get a clue...... (I'm not stooping to name calling as you do - it would be easy but I respect our Mod's too much for that). Word
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