ZONE - 100%, all the time, ONLY ZONE

[turbohoya]

We can't give up 30 plus free throws every offing time because we are slow footed and can't stay in front of other teams... this is getting ridiculous

[HometownHoya]

Our zone gets just as shredded by dribble drives and leaves our bigs exposed, causing them to rack up fouls.

[FrazierFanatic]

Jan 23, 2016 14:07:58 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

Our zone gets just as shredded by dribble drives and leaves our bigs exposed, causing them to rack up fouls.

This. You need defensive discipline to play zone effectively. We have none.

[hoyajinx]

We are 20 games in. We have a large enough sample of this season to determine that almost any combination of this personnel is bad both man to man and in the zone. I can't think of a single team's zone that gets so consistently dismantled by any guard with a pulse willing to drive.

[hoyarooter]

Jan 23, 2016 14:44:03 GMT -5 hoyajinx said:

We are 20 games in. We have a large enough sample of this season to determine that almost any combination of this personnel is bad both man to man and in the zone. I can't think of a single team's zone that gets so consistently dismantled by any guard with a pulse willing to drive.

This. We couldn't stop dribble penetration even in the zone. It was pathetic.

[playtyler]

We are a terrible zone team. Our switching man is not nearly as bad and neither is our press. Any time we are in the zone the other team will end up with a good shot. We have played more zone this year than ever because we often find ourselves with minus athletes on the floor. Zone is not the answer. More Keldon Johnson, Isaac Copeland and Marcus Derrickson could help. We shot well against Xavier with Campbell, Peak, DSR and Cameron playing huge minutes and we fall in love with this lineup. Not as good when the shots aren't falling, the next game or almost every game before Xavier. I want to see the young guys play. We could be very good in a year or two, if the young guys develop. More important that Copeland, Johnson and Darrickson get meaningful Big East minutes and get their confidence back for next year.

[hoyalove4ever]

Zone is not the answer, as others have pointed out.

[calhoya]

Jan 26, 2016 0:31:02 GMT -5 playtyler said:

We are a terrible zone team. Our switching man is not nearly as bad and neither is our press. Any time we are in the zone the other team will end up with a good shot. We have played more zone this year than ever because we often find ourselves with minus athletes on the floor. Zone is not the answer. More Keldon Johnson, Isaac Copeland and Marcus Derrickson could help. We shot well against Xavier with Campbell, Peak, DSR and Cameron playing huge minutes and we fall in love with this lineup. Not as good when the shots aren't falling, the next game or almost every game before Xavier. I want to see the young guys play. We could be very good in a year or two, if the young guys develop. More important that Copeland, Johnson and Darrickson get meaningful Big East minutes and get their confidence back for next year.

Derrickson is not a good defender now and lacks the lateral quickness to stay with or in front of his man. He is exposed on defense the farther out he moves from the lane. Obviously he will improve with time, but for now he is behind Cameron in terms of both his offensive and defensive skills. Cameron is by no means a plus defender but he is still the better option against quicker opponents. Neither has a good handle but what Derrickson does better than Cameron is rebound.

[FHillsNYHoya]

Came across this from Jim Larranaga in post-game from Duke/Miami last night (taken from the Charlotte Observer)....would be nice for us to "level off the dribbler"...


Krzyzewski commented multiple times on Miami’s physicality. When it was suggested to Miami coach Jim Larrañaga that Miami wasn’t previously perceived as a physical team, he balked.

“Angel,” he asked his point guard, Angel Rodriguez, who was sitting in the room. “Are we physical?”

“I think we are,” he said, incredulous at the question.

“The term we use is level off the dribbler,” Larrañaga said. “In other words, we’re not going to let them turn the corner and go directly toward the rim. And our guys are quick enough laterally, and we work on it every single day to teach our guys how to guard a dribbler.

“What Duke does incredibly well, maybe better than any team I’ve seen this year, for sure, is straight-line drive,” Larrañaga continued. “And that’s the hardest thing to guard, where a guy just is going hard. But we’re entitled to our position.”

The Hurricanes were strong enough to stand their ground when a Duke driver bumped into them, which threw the driver off, not the defense. The Blue Devils guards attempted just 11 free throws between the five of them, an indication of their inability to fight through the Miami players to the rim.

[Filo]

Jan 26, 2016 9:37:19 GMT -5 FHillsNYHoya said:

Came across this from Jim Larranaga in post-game from Duke/Miami last night (taken from the Charlotte Observer)....would be nice for us to "level off the dribbler"...


Krzyzewski commented multiple times on Miami’s physicality. When it was suggested to Miami coach Jim Larrañaga that Miami wasn’t previously perceived as a physical team, he balked.

“Angel,” he asked his point guard, Angel Rodriguez, who was sitting in the room. “Are we physical?”

“I think we are,” he said, incredulous at the question.

“The term we use is level off the dribbler,” Larrañaga said. “In other words, we’re not going to let them turn the corner and go directly toward the rim. And our guys are quick enough laterally, and we work on it every single day to teach our guys how to guard a dribbler.

“What Duke does incredibly well, maybe better than any team I’ve seen this year, for sure, is straight-line drive,” Larrañaga continued. “And that’s the hardest thing to guard, where a guy just is going hard. But we’re entitled to our position.”

The Hurricanes were strong enough to stand their ground when a Duke driver bumped into them, which threw the driver off, not the defense. The Blue Devils guards attempted just 11 free throws between the five of them, an indication of their inability to fight through the Miami players to the rim.

Good stuff. I can't help but think that our guys would get called for fouls for bumping on D, but that may just be because I am shell-shocked. It would definitely help if our players kept their hands out / up and moved their feet to stay in front, instead of checking with their hands and poking.

[prhoya]

Jan 26, 2016 9:37:19 GMT -5 FHillsNYHoya said:

Came across this from Jim Larranaga in post-game from Duke/Miami last night (taken from the Charlotte Observer)....would be nice for us to "level off the dribbler"...


Krzyzewski commented multiple times on Miami’s physicality. When it was suggested to Miami coach Jim Larrañaga that Miami wasn’t previously perceived as a physical team, he balked.

“Angel,” he asked his point guard, Angel Rodriguez, who was sitting in the room. “Are we physical?”

“I think we are,” he said, incredulous at the question.

“The term we use is level off the dribbler,” Larrañaga said. “In other words, we’re not going to let them turn the corner and go directly toward the rim. And our guys are quick enough laterally, and we work on it every single day to teach our guys how to guard a dribbler.

“What Duke does incredibly well, maybe better than any team I’ve seen this year, for sure, is straight-line drive,” Larrañaga continued. “And that’s the hardest thing to guard, where a guy just is going hard. But we’re entitled to our position.”

The Hurricanes were strong enough to stand their ground when a Duke driver bumped into them, which threw the driver off, not the defense. The Blue Devils guards attempted just 11 free throws between the five of them, an indication of their inability to fight through the Miami players to the rim.

Nice! We have the speed in Tre and LJ, plus Ike and Kaleb, to contain guards in a similar manner to Miami. We need the coaching and the cojones (like Angel's) to do it. It is not rocket science. DSR can compensate with IQ. Hayes or (insert name of big) guarding at the arc is just not going to cut it.

[aleutianhoya]

Jan 26, 2016 10:08:02 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Jan 26, 2016 9:37:19 GMT -5 FHillsNYHoya said:

Came across this from Jim Larranaga in post-game from Duke/Miami last night (taken from the Charlotte Observer)....would be nice for us to "level off the dribbler"...


Krzyzewski commented multiple times on Miami’s physicality. When it was suggested to Miami coach Jim Larrañaga that Miami wasn’t previously perceived as a physical team, he balked.

“Angel,” he asked his point guard, Angel Rodriguez, who was sitting in the room. “Are we physical?”

“I think we are,” he said, incredulous at the question.

“The term we use is level off the dribbler,” Larrañaga said. “In other words, we’re not going to let them turn the corner and go directly toward the rim. And our guys are quick enough laterally, and we work on it every single day to teach our guys how to guard a dribbler.

“What Duke does incredibly well, maybe better than any team I’ve seen this year, for sure, is straight-line drive,” Larrañaga continued. “And that’s the hardest thing to guard, where a guy just is going hard. But we’re entitled to our position.”

The Hurricanes were strong enough to stand their ground when a Duke driver bumped into them, which threw the driver off, not the defense. The Blue Devils guards attempted just 11 free throws between the five of them, an indication of their inability to fight through the Miami players to the rim.

Nice! We have the speed in Tre and LJ, plus Ike and Kaleb, to contain guards in a similar manner to Miami. We need the coaching and the cojones (like Angel's) to do it. It is not rocket science. DSR can compensate with IQ. Hayes or (insert name of big) guarding at the arc is just not going to cut it.

I watched the game and they were stupendous defensively. Really active without fouling. Kudos to them and Larranaga, who is obviously a terrific coach.

But I don't get this whole "don't have Hayes guarding at the arc" thing. What's he supposed to do if his man is setting a screen? If the guy getting the screen is a capable shooter, he has to at least effectively hedge (or ICE) it until the guard can recover, or else it's just a wide-open three. It's not like we're trying to switch them all like we did when we had Roy. There's literally no other strategy in that situation.

[prhoya]

Hayes cannot recover from out there or he fouls by impeding freedom of movement. No way around it at this point. Don't expose him. Let him stay in the paint. Govan is still learning. Let our guy covering the capable shooter fight around the screen. The capable shooter should be covered by the best defender available.

[aleutianhoya]

Jan 26, 2016 10:27:53 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Hayes cannot recover from out there or he fouls by impeding freedom of movement. No way around it at this point. Don't expose him. Let him stay in the paint. Govan is still learning. Let our guy covering the capable shooter fight around the screen. The capable shooter should be covered by the best defender available.

Respectfully, PR, you can't expect a screened-off player to fight over the screen in time. We would just inevitably give up wide open threes. Lots and lots and lots of teams for decades have had big, immobile centers and many are somehow capable of properly executing a hedge/recover (or something similar) effectively. But we aren't! So, for sure, we need to be creative about solutions -- and I'm all for trying what you propose (and we absolutely should do it if the player getting the screen is our opponent's version of LJ as opposed to DSR) -- but I think against a DSR-type, we do far more harm than good with it.

What I would try at this stage is actually the opposite. I'd tell Brad to hedge/show even harder (with hands straight up) and try to force the guard to delay for a split-second or (ideally) go sideways or backwards to get around him. I know that doing that may pick up fouls. But we're picking up fouls anyway. And even having him stay back in the paint seems to lead to fouls as the penetrating guard gets a head of steam and attacks him. Maybe this way, we at least stop it some of the time. (Or maybe alternate how hard we hedge to keep the offense guessing a bit.)

[FHillsNYHoya]

We need to figure out how to keep Watson from going downhill. Hopefully, we spent A LOT of time in CT post-blizzard on it.

[NCHoya]

Interested to see what adjustments we make to slow down Watson. I hope for some adjustment. It may not work, which is understandable, however, doing the same thing would be an indictment on our staff and III.

Also, I do not see a fix to this defense problem until III starts recruiting a balanced team of length but also speed/quickness. He severely undervalues quickness, and in the new world of CBB, that is a must for defense.

[prhoya]

Jan 26, 2016 10:44:57 GMT -5 aleutianhoya said:

Jan 26, 2016 10:27:53 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Hayes cannot recover from out there or he fouls by impeding freedom of movement. No way around it at this point. Don't expose him. Let him stay in the paint. Govan is still learning. Let our guy covering the capable shooter fight around the screen. The capable shooter should be covered by the best defender available.

Respectfully, PR, you can't expect a screened-off player to fight over the screen in time. We would just inevitably give up wide open threes. Lots and lots and lots of teams for decades have had big, immobile centers and many are somehow capable of properly executing a hedge/recover (or something similar) effectively. But we aren't! So, for sure, we need to be creative about solutions -- and I'm all for trying what you propose (and we absolutely should do it if the player getting the screen is our opponent's version of LJ as opposed to DSR) -- but I think against a DSR-type, we do far more harm than good with it.

What I would try at this stage is actually the opposite. I'd tell Brad to hedge/show even harder (with hands straight up) and try to force the guard to delay for a split-second or (ideally) go sideways or backwards to get around him. I know that doing that may pick up fouls. But we're picking up fouls anyway. And even having him stay back in the paint seems to lead to fouls as the penetrating guard gets a head of steam and attacks him. Maybe this way, we at least stop it some of the time. (Or maybe alternate how hard we hedge to keep the offense guessing a bit.)

Respectfully received, aleutian. The success in fighting around the screen depends on the defensive player and, like I said, we need the best defender on the DSR-like player. At this point, as I said, there's no time to teach Bradley to hedge as you're saying and not have him foul. The kid has been the third or fourth option at center during his time here. He was watching practice or serving as the offensive center in practice while the other center options were practicing the hedging in practice.

I would like to see something creative, but it's the end of January. If JT3 is going to try something, he needs to start now.

[richfame]

Triangle and 2?ha

[71hoya]

Thompson undervalues quickness and overvalues height.