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Post by professorhoya on Feb 3, 2016 13:49:50 GMT -5
Just for fun, I took a look at some BEast foul #s, games for Creighton, Provy, XU, VU and Butler. And us. A couple of observations: Each team except Xavier had their season low foul total against us. Take out 3 fouls in the last two minutes in the Xavier game and they get their season low against us too. Excepting the Xavier game, the foul differential v. GU is more than twice what it is in other games, such that if Creighton commits 2 fewer against other opponents, they commit 7.5 fewer against us. Butler usually commits 3.6 fouls more than its opponents, but committed 12 fewer than us, earning a +15.6 deviation from average (yes, including our intentional fouls at the end of the game, but they were still 6.7 below their own average). Of games played by these 5 teams, the 4 largest foul discrepancies are against GU - 12 last night, 10 v. Nova and CU and 8 v. Provy. Three of the four lowest number of fouls committed by a team are games v. GU, Creighton (10), VU (13 - Provy also had 13 against Nova) & Provy (14). Maybe we foul a lot, but teams also seem to do exceptionally well at not fouling us. Style of play? Coincidence? Conspiracy? You make the call. It's pretty simple lj and to a lesser extent DSR are the only ones who can consistently dribble penetrate and get fouls. You would think that Campbell would be able to put he doesn't seem very good at dribble penetrating, finishing or drive and kicking perhaps because of his high dribble. Like you have to be a threat to score for dribble penetration to work. With Markel while not having blazing quickness it was with his floater.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 3, 2016 13:56:07 GMT -5
Just for fun, I took a look at some BEast foul #s, games for Creighton, Provy, XU, VU and Butler. And us. A couple of observations: Each team except Xavier had their season low foul total against us. Take out 3 fouls in the last two minutes in the Xavier game and they get their season low against us too. Excepting the Xavier game, the foul differential v. GU is more than twice what it is in other games, such that if Creighton commits 2 fewer against other opponents, they commit 7.5 fewer against us. Butler usually commits 3.6 fouls more than its opponents, but committed 12 fewer than us, earning a +15.6 deviation from average (yes, including our intentional fouls at the end of the game, but they were still 6.7 below their own average). Of games played by these 5 teams, the 4 largest foul discrepancies are against GU - 12 last night, 10 v. Nova and CU and 8 v. Provy. Three of the four lowest number of fouls committed by a team are games v. GU, Creighton (10), VU (13 - Provy also had 13 against Nova) & Provy (14). Maybe we foul a lot, but teams also seem to do exceptionally well at not fouling us. Style of play? Coincidence? Conspiracy? You make the call. I do think our offensive style causes us to draw less fouls, though we actually aren't doing that bad overall at drawing fouls on the season. But since it's HoyaTalk, I'll definitely go with conspiracy.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 3, 2016 23:20:55 GMT -5
While we certainly have been trending down the past few games, Georgetown has spent much of this season in the top 30 in FTRate. We had been getting to the line quite well. Obviously, not the case in this stretch.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 3, 2016 23:26:53 GMT -5
While we certainly have been trending down the past few games, Georgetown has spent much of this season in the top 30 in FTRate. We had been getting to the line quite well. Obviously, not the case in this stretch. They don't drive effectively. We complain about officiating and the lopsided calls but we have been playing very passive which is what is playing into this. Need to turn up the tempo and get these athletes running.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Feb 7, 2016 15:26:00 GMT -5
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 7, 2016 15:31:45 GMT -5
Yeah, but if III changes our defense to conform to the current rules, then he'll just be a weak-willed conformist. Come to think of it, I think the Verizon Center hoops should be peach baskets on wooden posts. F*** all y'all with this "adjust to the modern game crap." If we're going to foul our way into obscurity, let's be real purists as we do it.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 7, 2016 15:48:00 GMT -5
Gonna borrow this from a CasualHoya post that borrowed it from the Big East Coast Bias Twitter account which judging by the font probably screengrabbed it from KenPom... Peak, Derrickson, and Hayes are currently 2nd, 4th, and 5th in the Big East in Most Fouls Committed Per 40 Minutes.
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 7, 2016 18:55:29 GMT -5
Gonna borrow this from a CasualHoya post that borrowed it from the Big East Coast Bias Twitter account which judging by the font probably screengrabbed it from KenPom... Peak, Derrickson, and Hayes are currently 2nd, 4th, and 5th in the Big East in Most Fouls Committed Per 40 Minutes. Good for them. III should tell the rest of the team to follow their lead. Maybe through sheer force of will, we can force the NCAA back into the '80s. Heck, if we commit enough fouls, maybe the Big East will go back to six fouls to foul out. Or maybe we'll just lose every game from now on. One thing I do know: III bears no responsibility for preparing the team to play effective, legal defense.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 7, 2016 20:32:42 GMT -5
Good for them. III should tell the rest of the team to follow their lead. Maybe through sheer force of will, we can force the NCAA back into the '80s. Heck, if we commit enough fouls, maybe the Big East will go back to six fouls to foul out. Or maybe we'll just lose every game from now on. One thing I do know: III bears no responsibility for preparing the team to play effective, legal defense. I believe the NIT is going to implement 6 fouls per game this post-season as an experiment, so we might have a chance to live in that world sooner than we think.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 8, 2016 1:32:07 GMT -5
Gonna borrow this from a CasualHoya post that borrowed it from the Big East Coast Bias Twitter account which judging by the font probably screengrabbed it from KenPom... Peak, Derrickson, and Hayes are currently 2nd, 4th, and 5th in the Big East in Most Fouls Committed Per 40 Minutes. I guess Govan hasn't played enough minutes to qualify.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 8, 2016 8:57:53 GMT -5
They clearly foul too often but it also looks like they have gotten the reputation as a team that fouls too much( rightly deserved!!!) and the officials go into games looking for and expecting them to foul. Against Seton Hall there were a few tough calls at the end where they actually played good defense and didn't deserve a foul, (Hayes had one on the Delgado 3 point play and Peak had another toward the end of the game in the paint) where they just held their position and had their hands straight up and still got called for fouls. Those were both calls the refs anticipated and called on reputation.
It is a shame that this happens, but some of the Hoyas have earned these reputations by fouling way too often early in the year and now they are not going to get any breaks on calls that are close.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 22, 2016 13:39:43 GMT -5
This is the last regular season update on these stats. Georgetown is currently ranked 345 out of 351 teams in fouling too much.
Foul counts:
Georgetown: 22 DePaul: 21 (away) Georgetown: 23 Marquette: 21 (home) Georgetown: 20 Creighton: 10 (away) Georgetown: 18 DePaul: 23 (home) Georgetown: 28 St. Johns: 24 (away) Georgetown: 23 Villanova: 13 (home) Georgetown: 19 Xavier: 21 (away) Georgetown: 27 Connecticut: 13 (away - OOC) Georgetown: 26 Creighton: 21 (home) Georgetown: 22 Providence: 14 (away) Georgetown: 29 Butler: 16 (away) Georgetown: 30 Seton Hall: 20 (away) Georgetown: 25 St. John's: 21 (home) Georgetown: 25 Providence: 15 (away) Georgetown: 24 Seton Hall: 15 (home) Georgetown: 20 Xavier: 15 (home) Georgetown: 32 Butler: 19 (home) Georgetown: 19 Marquette: 14 (away) Georgetown: 27 Villanova 21
In total, since the start of conference play, Georgetown has fouled 459 times, and our opponents have fouled 337 times.
The huge free throw disparity persisted right up to the end: since the beginning of conference play (including the Connecticut game), Georgetown took 367 free throws, and made 284 (77.38%). Our opponents have taken 559 and made 416 (74.4%).
This means that over our last 19 games, our opponents took 192 more free throws than us, and made 132 more free throws than us. This literally means we gave our opponents, on average, more 10+ free throws per game. Considering that we lost many games by single digits, this is actually a huge reason why we have played so poorly. It must be fixed for next season.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 22, 2016 13:53:43 GMT -5
The list below includes the losses where we gave up more FTs than our opponents gave us. The first number below is the margin of our loss in that game; the second figure is how many more FTs the winning team had, and the third is how many more FTs they made than us.
Maryland: 4 / 20 / 14 Duke: 2 / 12 / 9 Monmouth: 15 / 4 / 10 Asheville: 6 / - / 1 Creighton: 13 / 17 / 18 Villanova: 5 / 11 / 7 UConn: 6 / 28 / 22 Providence: 4 / 20 / 14 Butler: 11 / 22 / 20 Seton Hall: 8 / 8 / 3 Providence: 3 / 20 / 13 Seton Hall: 8 / 16 / 13 Xavier: 18 / 17 / 19
What does this tell me? There were a number of games this season that we basically only lost because of free throw disparities, including: Maryland, Duke, Villanova, UConn, Providence, Butler, Providence, Seton Hall (home). Creighton and the Xavier game would have also been substantially closer, even if we lost anyway.
But think about it. If had wins against Maryland, Duke, Villanova, UConn, Providence (twice), Butler, and Seton Hall, we are talking more about our seeding than whether we would make the tournament. Even if we lost the remaining three games, in that scenario, we are 22-9, RPI of 20, and we are likely a 4-6 seed.
So for all the complaining about the offense, if we simply didn't foul as much we do, we would basically be in a similar position to where we were last year.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 22, 2016 13:56:14 GMT -5
Saxa2003, the offense is part of the reason we don't get fouled as much though. You can't discount that. Our lack of penetration kills us.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 22, 2016 13:57:54 GMT -5
Well- assuming that we got defensive stops when we did not foul- which is not an assumption I can justify.
To me, the fouls are a symptom of awful defense more than a problem in their own right. We could have fouled less and given up a ton more layups, but I think we still get to the same place.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 22, 2016 13:59:31 GMT -5
Saxa2003, the offense is part of the reason we don't get fouled as much though. You can't discount that. Our lack of penetration kills us. That is true to some extent. However, we are 343 of 351 when it comes to fouling opponents. In other words, we foul more than 342 other Division I teams. And, unlike West Virginia who fouls a lot, but is also 2nd nationally in forcing turnovers, we don't force turnovers, either. That's part of the reason I have never thought the press has been that effective this season overall. We rarely get turnovers, and the extra fouls / free throws more than outweigh the one or two turnovers we might force. Fouling without forcing turnovers is a horrible combination, and we specialize in doing that.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 22, 2016 14:02:34 GMT -5
Well- assuming that we got defensive stops when we did not foul- which is not an assumption I can justify. To me, the fouls are a symptom of awful defense more than a problem in their own right. We could have fouled less and given up a ton more layups, but I think we still get to the same place. Yes, but the free throws are giving the opponent the easiest possible shot. And, I realize it's largely luck, but we are also 321st in free throw defense - meaning that even though it's largely luck, our opponents are shooting free throws exceptionally well. I am not trying to pretend like each possession where we give up a free throw would result in no points scored, but there are many games where the amount of FTs we gave up WAY outweighs the margin of defeat (like the Providence game or Maryland game). Even if we won those types of games, we'd easily be an NCAA team.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 22, 2016 14:07:55 GMT -5
I am hoping that JTIII can pull a Huggy Bear and switch up his philosophy mid-career. I would take anything different at this point. Our O is stale and our D is laughable. Whether it is talent or making sure all pieces fit together, I think JTIII has done a horrible job the past three years. On the talent front, I think it is on the roster which makes it all the more painful. In Esh's years, the talent just wasn't on the roster.
On a plus note, was on campus and that JT Jr. center is huge. Going to be really nice. Windows in and hopefully ahead of schedule.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 14, 2016 12:47:31 GMT -5
I started this thread last year to highlight our fouling problem. If you read the posts above, you will see we lost several games by relatively small margins where we gave our opponents several more free throws than we took.
Last season in conference play, Georgetown fouled 459 times, and opponents fouled 337 times. This led to Georgetown taking 367 free throws, and making 284 (77.38%), whereas our opponents took 559 and made 416 (74.4%). That was a huge disparity that hurt us last year. In this stretch, we gave opponents 10+ more free throws per game than we took.
I am going to track the stats on this this year (hence the title change on this post):
Georgetown: 24 fouls, 24-32 FT (75%); USC Upstate - 26 fouls, 12-28 (42.9%).
Overall, we had 2 fewer fouls and four more free throws. And, we made ours at a much higher rate than USC Upstate. Of course, we cannot expect future opponents to miss so many. Had USC Upstate made 75%, for example, they would have had 9 more points. We would have still won overwhelmingly, but in close games, we'd still prefer to have less fouls and give up fewer free throws.
I would say overall this is a decent improvement from last season, but there's much room for improvement. This is also a small sample and essentially meaningless for now. I hope we continue to draw more fouls than our opponents, especially since we have a good FT shooting team.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 14, 2016 12:57:51 GMT -5
It's not an improvement when you are playing UC Upstate.
The only thing I see as a positive on the foul front is that it was really concentrated at center and a lot of the calls were somewhat questionable and in the second half when things were over. I think our perimeter players defended much better but Agau, Govan, etc., were still hacktastic.
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