gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 831
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Post by gujake on Jan 20, 2016 18:39:45 GMT -5
IMO some people in the thread are really understating how important the fouling issue is.
2 shots = roughly 50% increase in scoring over an average possession 1 and 1 = roughly 25% increase in scoring over an average possession
Even non shooting fouls get the other team closer to the bonus. Fouling also affects the offense, because defenses are much better when set. And obviously it can also affect rotations and minutes. It's a huge problem.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 20, 2016 19:43:28 GMT -5
I don't see how anybody can say that we have a defense problem but not a fouling problem. Yes, over the course of the season there have been a variety of reasons why our defense has had trouble (most notably, not staying in front of the defender's man), but the very fact that our team has been ranked worse than 300+ other teams in fouling means that are defending badly.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 23, 2016 16:13:53 GMT -5
Connecticut took 36 free throws, we took 8. They made 29, we made 7. So, they got 22 extra points from FT. You simply cannot possibly win games if you foul this much (and yet, we almost did). This fouling has to stop. I realize it's harder away, but the disparity is because CT kept attacking the rim and we settled for contested threes.
After watching today's game, I don't see how anybody could say we have no fouling problem. To update the stats:
Georgetown: 22 DePaul: 21 (away) Georgetown: 23 Marquette: 21 (home) Georgetown: 20 Creighton: 10 (away) Georgetown: 18 DePaul: 23 (home) Georgetown: 28 St. Johns: 24 (away) Georgetown: 23 Villanova: 13 (home) Georgetown: 19 Xavier: 21 (away) Georgetown: 27 Connecticut: 13
In total, Georgetown has fouled 180 times, and our opponents have fouled 146 times. Home, we have 64 fouls to our opponents 57. Away, we have fouled 116 times to our opponents 89.
Free Throws: Since the beginning of conference, Georgetown has shot 128/162 (79.01%) and our opponents have shot 158/209(75.60%).
Before this game, we had a 19 FT deficit to our opponents, which grew to 47!
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jan 23, 2016 16:21:24 GMT -5
Connecticut took 36 free throws, we took 8. They made 29, we made 7. So, they got 22 extra points from FT. You simply cannot possibly win games if you foul this much (and yet, we almost did). This fouling has to stop. I realize it's harder away, but the disparity is because CT kept attacking the rim and we settled for contested threes. After watching today's game, I don't see how anybody could say we have no fouling problem. To update the stats: Georgetown: 22 DePaul: 21 (away) Georgetown: 23 Marquette: 21 (home) Georgetown: 20 Creighton: 10 (away) Georgetown: 18 DePaul: 23 (home) Georgetown: 28 St. Johns: 24 (away) Georgetown: 23 Villanova: 13 (home) Georgetown: 19 Xavier: 21 (away) Georgetown: 27 Connecticut: 13 In total, Georgetown has fouled 180 times, and our opponents have fouled 146 times. Home, we have 64 fouls to our opponents 57. Away, we have fouled 116 times to our opponents 89. Free Throws: Since the beginning of conference, Georgetown has shot 128/162 (79.01%) and our opponents have shot 158/209(75.60%). Before this game, we had a 19 FT deficit to our opponents, which grew to 47! B-b-b-but fouling isn't one of our 10 biggest issues!!! Right guys?!?!?! Can't even fathom losing to a team that makes 4 fgs in the vesper half. LJ peak fouls out. Shocker. Somehow this team hasn't figured out how to play defense without fouling. Onto next season i guess but gonna be same story.
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Post by bicentennial on Jan 23, 2016 16:55:25 GMT -5
I am very confused by the math that gets us to a Free Throw Disparity of 47. Otherwise I agree we seem very foul prone. I don't feel a reffing disparity was the problem this game as we frequently made very clear fouls on guards driving into the lane. On the other hand, I have seen a number of times his year when an opposing forward has gone over the back of Hayes or Govan to get a rebound and has landed on the center's back and no foul has been called. This is a very dangerous and flagrant over the back fouling situation where the forward's body weight has been on our center's upper back or neck. I am glad that neither center has been seriously injured but not calling these very dangerous fouls could easily lead to a tragedy and lifelong pain for a center. If anyone knows someone with ties to the NCAA, they need to stress to refs that these type of fouls should not be ignored as they could cause a permanent injury. I did not see the foul on Govan but I was very sorry to hear that this type of dangerous foul happened again and was ignored in this game.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 23, 2016 17:07:22 GMT -5
Wow, this thread just got more relevant after today's debacle. No question we fouled way too much, the refs could have called the game differently but they were consistent - the HOYAS need to adjust. At this point it seems this will be a permanent problem against teams with quick guards, and it is going to continue to cost us games.
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Dhall on Jan 23, 2016 17:24:20 GMT -5
We foul because we can't defend. It's not that complicated. If we stop fouling, we will be giving up more layups. Pick your poison with a lousy defensive team.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 23, 2016 17:41:07 GMT -5
I am very confused by the math that gets us to a Free Throw Disparity of 47. Sorry, I realized that my post isn't clear. I will fix it in future iterations. Since conference play (our 6 Big East games, plus the Connecticut game), we have taken 162 free throws, and our opponents have taken 209. That's where the 47 comes from. As far as FT's made, we have made 128 and opponents have made 158. So, the fact that we are shooting FT's so well in Big East play actually helps, but still, our opponents have made 30 more FTs than we have. That works out to an average of 4.29 points per game; essentially, we need to outscore our opponents by 5 points to be even/winning. It's absurd.
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Post by bicentennial on Jan 23, 2016 19:10:20 GMT -5
Thank you for the math explanation.
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gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 831
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Post by gujake on Jan 23, 2016 23:02:46 GMT -5
Has III made any comments recently about the fouling problem? I looked through his postgame quotes on guhoyas and he doesn't seem to talk about it much at all.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,158
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Post by prhoya on Feb 2, 2016 7:05:41 GMT -5
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 2, 2016 8:21:41 GMT -5
It is sad to see the program giving in to this false narrative. Play your style and let things fall where they may. Please do not sell out to these bogus new rules.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Feb 2, 2016 8:51:10 GMT -5
These are the Hoyas last 3 losses
FTs
Vill. 16-22 GTown 9-11 UConn 29-36 GTown 7-8 Prov 24-33 GTown 10-13
Number of FGs Made ------------------ Vill. 18-47 GTown 17-52 UConn 17-47 GTown 23-59 Prov 22-52 GTown 27-61
Lost Margin ----------- Vill 5 UConn 6 Prov 4
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,906
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Post by Filo on Feb 2, 2016 8:57:26 GMT -5
It is sad to see the program giving in to this false narrative. Play your style and let things fall where they may. Please do not sell out to these bogus new rules. Are you a write for The Onion?
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 2, 2016 8:57:44 GMT -5
No.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 2, 2016 10:06:32 GMT -5
It is sad to see the program giving in to this false narrative. Play your style and let things fall where they may. Please do not sell out to these bogus new rules. You realize this is tantamount to saying we should intentionally make it harder to win, right?
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 2, 2016 10:17:47 GMT -5
I disagree with that claim, but assuming without at all conceding it is correct, I am fine with it. You have to take a stand when A) the rules are patently absurd on their face and B) they are being applied to you in an arbitrary and capricious manner. If every coach stood up after every game and acted like Big John, we would not be saddled with this crap.
This purported "problem" is a short-term one. Things will not continue to be called this way. There will be another adjustment this off-season. We just need to stay the course rather than jumping on and off the boat.
And to be clear, as many others have pointed out, only a small portion of our fouls even fall into the category we are discussing. The majority occur because we are beaten on defense. I am fine with us giving up foul shots rather than lay-ups. It all starts with poor defense. THAT is where we should be focusing our attention.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,365
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Post by drquigley on Feb 2, 2016 10:30:22 GMT -5
I disagree with that claim, but assuming without at all conceding it is correct, I am fine with it. You have to take a stand when A) the rules are patently absurd on their face and B) they are being applied to you in an arbitrary and capricious manner. If every coach stood up after every game and acted like Big John, we would not be saddled with this crap. This purported "problem" is a short-term one. Things will not continue to be called this way. There will be another adjustment this off-season. We just need to stay the course rather than jumping on and off the boat. And to be clear, as many others have pointed out, only a small portion of our fouls even fall into the category we are discussing. The majority occur because we are beaten on defense. I am fine with us giving up foul shots rather than lay-ups. It all starts with poor defense. THAT is where we should be focusing our attention. Wow. Rather give up fouls than layups??? You realize that giving up fouls means giving up players committing those fouls? Agree it all starts with bad defense but I'd much rather have LJ or DSR on the court giving up an occasional layup than disqualified after stopping 5 layups by fouling.
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Post by bicentennial on Feb 2, 2016 10:38:45 GMT -5
While the team has to change to survive the season, I agree that the arbitrary and capricious way fouls are being called is not only hurting the Hoyas but other teams as well! When Govan was called for fouling Dunn on a rebound under the Providence basket, it was about the 6th time this season that an opposing player has knocked Govan in the head going over his back. This is why the ball was in a position for Dunn to grab it. Again GU was called for a foul! While half of the foul's on Govan were in games we won, it still raises the question would we have won other games with a potential 4 point/1 foul swing. The obvious answer is maybe! A similar argument can be made with fouls on/to Peak and Hayes. Unfortunately, the rest of our season is likely to be decided by the officiating and despite Big John's comments, I worry that more fouls will go against us than for us!
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 2, 2016 10:53:11 GMT -5
I disagree with that claim, but assuming without at all conceding it is correct, I am fine with it. You have to take a stand when A) the rules are patently absurd on their face and B) they are being applied to you in an arbitrary and capricious manner. If every coach stood up after every game and acted like Big John, we would not be saddled with this crap. This purported "problem" is a short-term one. Things will not continue to be called this way. There will be another adjustment this off-season. We just need to stay the course rather than jumping on and off the boat. And to be clear, as many others have pointed out, only a small portion of our fouls even fall into the category we are discussing. The majority occur because we are beaten on defense. I am fine with us giving up foul shots rather than lay-ups. It all starts with poor defense. THAT is where we should be focusing our attention. Wow. Rather give up fouls than layups??? You realize that giving up fouls means giving up players committing those fouls? Agree it all starts with bad defense but I'd much rather have LJ or DSR on the court giving up an occasional layup than disqualified after stopping 5 layups by fouling. How many guys have we had disqualified this year? How many times has that been a big issue? I do not recall losing any games because a bunch of key players fouled out. I am a "no layups/ no dunks/ no exceptions" type of guy. If Michael Jordan is twenty feet ahead of Josh Smith, I want Josh sprinting as fast as those legs can carry him to throw his body at MJ and not give up the dunk. It is a philosophical thing to me. Nothing uncontested, ever.
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