Elvado
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Jan 13, 2016 18:59:06 GMT -5
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Post by Elvado on Jan 13, 2016 18:59:06 GMT -5
See my earlier about why my ringing hollow is not nearly as tragic as the President's. I applaud all of you for taking your man's back and not compromising your opinions. A most fitting tribute to the great Uniter.
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TC
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Jan 13, 2016 21:17:30 GMT -5
Post by TC on Jan 13, 2016 21:17:30 GMT -5
See my earlier about why my ringing hollow is not nearly as tragic as the President's. I applaud all of you for taking your man's back and not compromising your opinions. A most fitting tribute to the great Uniter. You can't come up with a single solitary issue that you're actually complaining about. The truth is there can't be compromise because there's really not a second party to compromise with. The elected Republican Party can't agree on anything but disagreeing.
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Elvado
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Jan 13, 2016 21:44:13 GMT -5
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Post by Elvado on Jan 13, 2016 21:44:13 GMT -5
In no particular order, he has failed to enforce duly enacted legislation on immigration. He crafted an empty Iran deal to suit his whim and did it without the will of the duly elected legislature. He rammed through the ACA on a party line vote when the majority in Congress had not read the bill.
Mr. Obama may ultimately be proven right on all of these issues. However, his behavior is that of one whose definition of compromise is to do what he wants, all others be damned.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 14, 2016 8:39:46 GMT -5
In no particular order, he has failed to enforce duly enacted legislation on immigration. He crafted an empty Iran deal to suit his whim and did it without the will of the duly elected legislature. He rammed through the ACA on a party line vote when the majority in Congress had not read the bill. Mr. Obama may ultimately be proven right on all of these issues. However, his behavior is that of one whose definition of compromise is to do what he wants, all others be damned. There was no compromise to be had on any of those issues. Immigration : - Donald Trump is leading in the Republican polls because he's running anti-immigration - Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush are losing because of their immigration stances - George Bush couldn't get his own party to support an immigration deal. Was it because he was bad at compromise? No, it was because his party rebelled against the thought of "amnesty", took a hard line position, and he couldn't get enough Republican votes. Obama would have had considerably less support just by virtue of being a Democrat - and that's understating it heavily because any anti-Obama position is just about gold in the Republican party. - Republicans weren't going to do any immigration deal under Obama because they're scared of more minority votes ACA : we've been over this again and again. Just because it passed on a party line vote doesn't mean that Obama didn't spend months trying to work a compromise, trying to get Republican input, trying to get Republican votes. "It will be his Waterloo, it will break him" was the cynical, bad-faith way in which Republicans approached health care. You say that you blame Republicans also for the lack of compromise, but you really don't. If you wanted to see action on these things - or compromise for a different health care plan - your attitude demonizing Democrats for the most petty and ridiculous things - is what gets in the way. My guess is that you really don't want to see compromise on any of those things - that you wanted to see health care defeated, that you really don't give a crap about an immigration deal, you just want to find another petty and disingenuous way to complain about Obama and the SoTU.
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Elvado
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Jan 14, 2016 8:41:07 GMT -5
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Post by Elvado on Jan 14, 2016 8:41:07 GMT -5
So since I do not agree with your position, I am wrong. Sounds like someone....
So as not to duck the substance of your post, I would love to see an immigration deal. However, I favor enforcement of existing law and consequence for those who broke said law. Mr. Obama would not ever move to a position that satisfies my desires. His privilege. However, why is it not he who is intransigent rather than I ? You state that Trump is running anti-immigration. Maybe he is running in favor of enforcement of existing law which the great compromiser refuses to do. It is all a matter of whose ox is being gored.
Same thing on ACA. I profoundly disfavor allowing the government to run anything. I also do not favor enforced purchase of a product I do not want. So where could he meet me in the middle? Answer is that he could not. So we are both intransigent. However you agree with him so my intransigence is obstructionism and his is principle. I get it.
Let me be clear. Washington is broken. Republicans bear much if not most of the blame. But the Compromiser in Chief has feet of clay here as well.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jan 14, 2016 9:58:50 GMT -5
This thread is hilarious. The stated political goal of the Republicans was to stop Obama from implementing any of his policies. They did not wait until they "won" the midterm elections - which, if you want to use the democracy argument is a red herring anyway. The Republicans lost the popular vote but have so effectively gerrymandered that they won more seats. So no, they weren't representing democracy, quite the opposite.
There is so much projecting in this thread it's incredible.
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hoyainspirit
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Jan 14, 2016 10:49:11 GMT -5
Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 14, 2016 10:49:11 GMT -5
So since I do not agree with your position, I am wrong. Sounds like someone.... So as not to duck the substance of your post, I would love to see an immigration deal. However, I favor enforcement of existing law and consequence for those who broke said law. Mr. Obama would not ever move to a position that satisfies my desires. His privilege. However, why is it not he who is intransigent rather than I ? You state that Trump is running anti-immigration. Maybe he is running in favor of enforcement of existing law which the great compromiser refuses to do. It is all a matter of whose ox is being gored. Same thing on ACA. I profoundly disfavor allowing the government to run anything. I also do not favor enforced purchase of a product I do not want. So where could he meet me in the middle? Answer is that he could not. So we are both intransigent. However you agree with him so my intransigence is obstructionism and his is principle. I get it. Let me be clear. Washington is broken. Republicans bear much if not most of the blame. But the Compromiser in Chief has feet of clay here as well. I love your zeal. I know it's tough trying to defend the indefensible.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 14, 2016 10:54:22 GMT -5
So where could he meet me in the middle? Answer is that he could not. You've just made my point. You're beating him over the head for not compromising on things you or the Republican party are not willing to compromise on. I didn't start a thread complaining about your intransigence, you started one complaining about Obama's inability to make a deal with you. If you're not willing to compromise, own it. I wouldn't support a climate deal that built new coal-fired plants, but I wouldn't blame a Republican President for not "compromising" and giving me my checklist - that's entitled, disingenuous and petty. I'd just say he or she was wrong. And just to be clear, I don't only blame your intransigence, I also blame the utter lack of cohesiveness or purpose of the Republican House. They couldn't reach a deal with themselves on what sort of lunch to order. There's no way to reach a deal with them because it would be like herding rabid feral cats - their own leadership can't bring them to vote on anything that gives a little to the other side. They barely can elect a leader.
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Elvado
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Jan 14, 2016 11:52:57 GMT -5
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Post by Elvado on Jan 14, 2016 11:52:57 GMT -5
So where could he meet me in the middle? Answer is that he could not. You've just made my point. You're beating him over the head for not compromising on things you or the Republican party are not willing to compromise on. I didn't start a thread complaining about your intransigence, you started one complaining about Obama's inability to make a deal with you. If you're not willing to compromise, own it. I wouldn't support a climate deal that built new coal-fired plants, but I wouldn't blame a Republican President for not "compromising" and giving me my checklist - that's entitled, disingenuous and petty. I'd just say he or she was wrong. And just to be clear, I don't only blame your intransigence, I also blame the utter lack of cohesiveness or purpose of the Republican House. They couldn't reach a deal with themselves on what sort of lunch to order. There's no way to reach a deal with them because it would be like herding rabid feral cats - their own leadership can't bring them to vote on anything that gives a little to the other side. They barely can elect a leader. We substantially agree except that I started a thread castigating him for lecturing on unwillingness to compromise when he has an exposed flank of his own on that topic.
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TC
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Jan 14, 2016 16:04:49 GMT -5
Post by TC on Jan 14, 2016 16:04:49 GMT -5
Again, he has no exposed flank on this topic because Republicans have never been at the table long enough to say "he can't compromise".
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Elvado
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Jan 14, 2016 18:00:54 GMT -5
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Post by Elvado on Jan 14, 2016 18:00:54 GMT -5
Again, he has no exposed flank on this topic because Republicans have never been at the table long enough to say "he can't compromise". My we like to speak in absolutes don't we? You realize yours is not a universally-held opinion, right?
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AvantGuardHoya
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Jan 18, 2016 12:58:11 GMT -5
Post by AvantGuardHoya on Jan 18, 2016 12:58:11 GMT -5
That Faux News flaming "liberal", Juan Williams, weighs in: Obama is not responsible for the unprecedented obstructionism employed by McConnell’s Senate Republicans to block nearly all of his nominees and proposals. He has not even used executive action to get around Congress as extensively as did Presidents Clinton and George W. Bush. But his critics deride him as a constitutional outlaw.
Similarly, ObamaCare is based on Republican proposals such as the healthcare plan Mitt Romney put in place as governor of Massachusetts. How is Obama to blame for Congressional Republicans stopping cap-and-trade proposals to reduce air pollution when the idea originated with them? thehill.com/opinion/juan-williams/266155-juan-williams-gop-to-blame-for-civilitys-breakdown
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