Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Feb 29, 2016 12:41:59 GMT -5
Agree. Have a feeling that Trump's financial statement is not consistent with his tax return. You are definitely right about Trump's support. His support is rock solid and no matter what he says or does, his supporters will not waver. Senator Sessions, whatever you may think of him, crystallized why Trump support is so unwavering. He is not part of the oligarchy. He may be very rich, but he is not Washington power and the Trump movement, for lack of a more apt description, is a gigantic middle finger to Washington elites on both sides of the aisle. It is not unlike political road rage. It feels good while you scream, but is often unsafe and does no real good.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 29, 2016 12:42:55 GMT -5
Agree. Have a feeling that Trump's financial statement is not consistent with his tax return. You are definitely right about Trump's support. His support is rock solid and no matter what he says or does, his supporters will not waver. Disagree. The reason his supporters like him is that he's a "winner." They want the country to be a "winner." More to the point, THEY personally want to be "winners." His support is not based on any of his proposals, and it's clearly not impacted by the inane things he says. None of that matters because people believe, quite simply, that he knows how to get "results," in the generic sense. All of that is a crumbled facade if it is shown that he is not really a "winner." If his wealth is in any meaningful sense faked, he loses the very thing that people believe he is good at. Now, his tax returns may not show that. And, even if they do, there may be enough wiggle room in there (all my money is in real estate and it doesn't show there...) that the facade doesn't break. But I do think if there was a way to conclusively show that he wasn't worth nearly what he says, he'd lose significant support.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Feb 29, 2016 13:52:08 GMT -5
Agree. Have a feeling that Trump's financial statement is not consistent with his tax return. You are definitely right about Trump's support. His support is rock solid and no matter what he says or does, his supporters will not waver. Disagree. The reason his supporters like him is that he's a "winner." They want the country to be a "winner." More to the point, THEY personally want to be "winners." His support is not based on any of his proposals, and it's clearly not impacted by the inane things he says. None of that matters because people believe, quite simply, that he knows how to get "results," in the generic sense. All of that is a crumbled facade if it is shown that he is not really a "winner." If his wealth is in any meaningful sense faked, he loses the very thing that people believe he is good at. Now, his tax returns may not show that. And, even if they do, there may be enough wiggle room in there (all my money is in real estate and it doesn't show there...) that the facade doesn't break. But I do think if there was a way to conclusively show that he wasn't worth nearly what he says, he'd lose significant support. Maybe. Maybe not. Was it Forbes that came out with an article about Trump's net worth being about half of what he has stated? I don't think anyone would be surprised by Trump exaggerating his wealth or anything else to suit the situation. That's sort of his wheelhouse, no? Also, he claimed he was worth about 10 billion. If it came to light that he's worth 4, I don't know that that would make that much of a difference to his supporters. He'd still be really wealthy.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,462
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Post by TC on Feb 29, 2016 13:56:13 GMT -5
Senator Sessions, whatever you may think of him, crystallized why Trump support is so unwavering. He is not part of the oligarchy. He may be very rich, but he is not Washington power and the Trump movement, for lack of a more apt description, is a gigantic middle finger to Washington elites on both sides of the aisle. In what world is Sessions not part of the Washington elite?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2016 14:02:48 GMT -5
Agree. Have a feeling that Trump's financial statement is not consistent with his tax return. You are definitely right about Trump's support. His support is rock solid and no matter what he says or does, his supporters will not waver. Disagree. The reason his supporters like him is that he's a "winner." They want the country to be a "winner." More to the point, THEY personally want to be "winners." His support is not based on any of his proposals, and it's clearly not impacted by the inane things he says. None of that matters because people believe, quite simply, that he knows how to get "results," in the generic sense. All of that is a crumbled facade if it is shown that he is not really a "winner." If his wealth is in any meaningful sense faked, he loses the very thing that people believe he is good at. Now, his tax returns may not show that. And, even if they do, there may be enough wiggle room in there (all my money is in real estate and it doesn't show there...) that the facade doesn't break. But I do think if there was a way to conclusively show that he wasn't worth nearly what he says, he'd lose significant support. Almost all financial analysts feel that Trump has grossly inflated his net worth. However, even if that comes out that he is worth much less, I don't think his support will crumble. It is his persona that is driving his campaign and I think this support is rock solid. It will be interesting to see which one of us is correct. Time will tell.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Feb 29, 2016 14:12:56 GMT -5
Senator Sessions, whatever you may think of him, crystallized why Trump support is so unwavering. He is not part of the oligarchy. He may be very rich, but he is not Washington power and the Trump movement, for lack of a more apt description, is a gigantic middle finger to Washington elites on both sides of the aisle. In what world is Sessions not part of the Washington elite? I am sorry if I was not more clear. The appeal of Trump is that he is not part of the Washington elite. Sessions, who clearly is, recognizes this and played to the desire to "bust up the oligarchy". That is why Trump supporters are so entrenched. They hate Washington.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 29, 2016 14:16:56 GMT -5
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Feb 29, 2016 19:39:14 GMT -5
The sad thing is, if Trump's house of cards were finally to come tumbling down (as I hope it does), the choice is then between Rubio and Cruz. Awful. Awful. Awful.
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 29, 2016 21:23:59 GMT -5
If a pair of sandwiches could finish in second place in the GUSA election this year, is it really so far-fetched that the Canine Party could win several states and throw the election into the House of Representatives?
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 2, 2016 9:56:53 GMT -5
Last night Bernie Sanders wins Minnesota, Colorado, Vermont, Oklahoma I understand Clinton won 7 states to 4, but the media keeps insisting the race is over on the Democratic side, but yet insist that Rubio and Cruz have a path to victory when they have won 3 or 4 states between the both them thus far on the Republican side. Bernie Sanders has won 5 states with the upcoming states not in the south favoring him, therefore how can CNN, MSNBC and Fox News declare the race is over for the Democrats?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 2, 2016 10:37:05 GMT -5
Last night Bernie Sanders wins Minnesota, Colorado, Vermont, Oklahoma I understand Clinton won 7 states to 4, but the media keeps insisting the race is over on the Democratic side, but yet insist that Rubio and Cruz have a path to victory when they have won 3 or 4 states between the both them thus far on the Republican side. Bernie Sanders has won 5 states with the upcoming states not in the south favoring him, therefore how can CNN, MSNBC and Fox News declare the race is over for the Democrats? Because the game is so profoundly rigged on the Democrat side that Bernie can not win. On the Republican side, the anti-Trump agenda in both the media and party hierarchy is palpable. He simply refuses to play by their rules and thus they must drive the narrative that this contest remains competitive to justify late attempts to hijack the nomination from him. Finally, much like their meteorologist brethren, they bat about .300 which means they are wrong more than right.
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hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 2, 2016 10:37:14 GMT -5
Agree. Have a feeling that Trump's financial statement is not consistent with his tax return. You are definitely right about Trump's support. His support is rock solid and no matter what he says or does, his supporters will not waver. Senator Sessions, whatever you may think of him, crystallized why Trump support is so unwavering. He is not part of the oligarchy. He may be very rich, but he is not Washington power and the Trump movement, for lack of a more apt description, is a gigantic middle finger to Washington elites on both sides of the aisle. It is not unlike political road rage. It feels good while you scream, but is often unsafe and does no real good. I essentially agree, E, with this take. TJI and JerryLH (and others) have expressed similar thoughts on Trump's support as well. During the course of this theater that is the Republican primaries, Trump has defended Planned Parenthood, praised the Canadian health care system, savaged Fox News and its show hosts, skipped debates, and retweeted white supremacists. When presented with Trump's previous support for higher taxes on the rich or single-payer insurance, heresies of the highest order to most Republicans elected officials, Trump fans shrug it off. I doubt Trump takes his pronouncements seriously, since he, like most of the Republican candidates, just straight up lies and proposes policies which have zero shot at being implemented. His voters don't care. Trump's appeal isn't the solutions he promises so much as the issues and problems he identifies. Trump is unique among major American politicians of either party because he is willing to talk about these things. Trump does not mouth the rote conservative b.s. that government is failing because it can’t work and that the solution is to cut it down to size. Instead, he says it is failing because it is run by dopes and that the solution is for it to instead be run by him. The GOP's tactics for years have centered on stoking fear — of communists, minorities, criminals, gays, terrorists, cultural elites — to win elections and then, once in office, pivoting to its wealthy donor base. That's why Cruz could say to some rich donor whose name I can't remember and I'm too lazy to look up for this post that he doesn't care about gay marriage laws. As its voting base has gained blue-collar whites, the chasm between the means by which Republicans attain power and the ends they pursue once they get elected has widened. This fact has so upset a percentage of voters that Trump's candidacy represents a revolt against the "establishment", or "elites" within the GOP. That support appears strong and unwavering. There are many GOP voters out there fed up with the system, and Trump is their man, ridiculous pronouncements and qualifications be damned.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 12:14:25 GMT -5
Hi Hoyainspirit. I agree with almost everything you posted, except... I don't agree with your first sentence of your second paragraph. I think that you would have a difficult time demonstrating the GOPs tactics have centered on stoking fear of ...minorities. Now if you had rephrased that to say the "far right wing of the GOP" then perhaps you have a better argument. Fortunately, the far right has never attained power. Look, Hilary has moved far to the left as I expected her to do. She is being pragmatic. Once elected (as I suspect she will be), you don't think she will pivot to her wealthy donor base after she is elected President? They all do. I am a registered independent, but lean to the moderate Republican side and I am horrified with what is happening in the Republican party. It is actually embarrassing (in my humble opinion). Unfortunately, so many voters today are "splitters." By that I mean that if someone doesn't like Obama, they criticize everything he says and does. Then there are those who like him who will not criticize anything he says or does. I just think that it is important to realize that sometimes people you really dislike may be right. Once in a while Trump has said something that I agree with (although not very often).
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 2, 2016 12:19:14 GMT -5
Senator Sessions, whatever you may think of him, crystallized why Trump support is so unwavering. He is not part of the oligarchy. He may be very rich, but he is not Washington power and the Trump movement, for lack of a more apt description, is a gigantic middle finger to Washington elites on both sides of the aisle. It is not unlike political road rage. It feels good while you scream, but is often unsafe and does no real good. I essentially agree, E, with this take. TJI and JerryLH (and others) have expressed similar thoughts on Trump's support as well. During the course of this theater that is the Republican primaries, Trump has defended Planned Parenthood, praised the Canadian health care system, savaged Fox News and its show hosts, skipped debates, and retweeted white supremacists. When presented with Trump's previous support for higher taxes on the rich or single-payer insurance, heresies of the highest order to most Republicans elected officials, Trump fans shrug it off. I doubt Trump takes his pronouncements seriously, since he, like most of the Republican candidates, just straight up lies and proposes policies which have zero shot at being implemented. His voters don't care. Trump's appeal isn't the solutions he promises so much as the issues and problems he identifies. Trump is unique among major American politicians of either party because he is willing to talk about these things. Trump does not mouth the rote conservative b.s. that government is failing because it can’t work and that the solution is to cut it down to size. Instead, he says it is failing because it is run by dopes and that the solution is for it to instead be run by him. The GOP's tactics for years have centered on stoking fear — of communists, minorities, criminals, gays, terrorists, cultural elites — to win elections and then, once in office, pivoting to its wealthy donor base. That's why Cruz could say to some rich donor whose name I can't remember and I'm too lazy to look up for this post that he doesn't care about gay marriage laws. As its voting base has gained blue-collar whites, the chasm between the means by which Republicans attain power and the ends they pursue once they get elected has widened. This fact has so upset a percentage of voters that Trump's candidacy represents a revolt against the "establishment", or "elites" within the GOP. That support appears strong and unwavering. There are many GOP voters out there fed up with the system, and Trump is their man, ridiculous pronouncements and qualifications be damned. To be fair to the Romans, at least they appointed competent people as Consuls.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 2, 2016 12:22:20 GMT -5
Trump attacks firms for exporting manufacturing to China, yet... Trump is a carnaval barker, a used car salesman. He'll do or say whatever it takes to get you into that car. But if he wins the nomination, the Democrats must take him seriously because he's a damn good used car saleman. Attacking Trump on policy likely will have little effect. His business record and racist sentiments, however, expose his vulnerability.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 2, 2016 12:30:12 GMT -5
Hi Hoyainspirit. I agree with almost everything you posted, except... I don't agree with your first sentence of your second paragraph. I think that you would have a difficult time demonstrating the GOPs tactics have centered on stoking fear of ...minorities. Willie Horton. Of course she recognizes the need to raise money, but I doubt she governs or espouses policies which so heavily favor the 1%. That Republican strategy provides strong rationality for Trump supporters, IMO.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Mar 2, 2016 12:50:46 GMT -5
Hi Hoyainspirit. I agree with almost everything you posted, except... I don't agree with your first sentence of your second paragraph. I think that you would have a difficult time demonstrating the GOPs tactics have centered on stoking fear of ...minorities. Willie Horton. Willie Horton was stoking the fear of criminals released too early.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Mar 2, 2016 12:57:34 GMT -5
The sad thing is, if Trump's house of cards were finally to come tumbling down (as I hope it does), the choice is then between Rubio and Cruz. Awful. Awful. Awful. But, considering the candidates on the other side, they are practically statesmen.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 2, 2016 13:00:48 GMT -5
Willie Horton was stoking the fear of criminals released too early. C'mon, CD. That was about as transparent a racial reference without coming out and saying it as there could be. All Lee Atwater, whose history as a strategist I guess you've forgotten.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Mar 2, 2016 13:05:50 GMT -5
Willie Horton was stoking the fear of criminals released too early. C'mon, CD. That was about as transparent a racial reference without coming out and saying it as there could be. All Lee Atwater, whose history as a strategist I guess you've forgotten. I haven't forgotten. Just never saw it that way, despite all the celebrities who told me I should have.
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