DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 8, 2015 15:06:22 GMT -5
This is Washington. Everything leaks, even secret trade deals and armament deals with Iran. Washington could learn a little from Georgetown when it comes to secrecy. What happens in 2nd Healy (and McDonough) stays there.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jun 29, 2016 13:55:04 GMT -5
Below is a video of Ross Perot discussing how NAFTA was negotiated by U.S. Officials and released to the public, a lot of similarities as to how T.P.P. is being leaked to the public From my studies of the issue, at that time in 1993, it did not matter if Bill Clinton or George H.W. Bush was President NAFTA would have been signed into law as it was started under the Bush Administration and finished under the Clinton Administration.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 29, 2016 14:57:35 GMT -5
Below is a video of Ross Perot discussing how NAFTA was negotiated by U.S. Officials and released to the public, a lot of similarities as to how T.P.P. is being leaked to the public From my studies of the issue, at that time in 1993, it did not matter if Bill Clinton or George H.W. Bush was President NAFTA would have been signed into law as it was started under the Bush Administration and finished under the Clinton Administration. Hi. Welcome to 2016.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jul 1, 2016 14:52:59 GMT -5
Below is more information about what is in the Trans Pacific Partnership: Intellectual Property
The TPP would extend copyright beyond the international 50 year standard after an author’s death by an additional 20 years, thus effectively prohibiting works from entering the public domain.3
Article 16 of the TPP wants signatories to find legal incentives to strong-arm ISPs into privately enforcing TPP copyright rules. The result could be arbitrary filtering of content, complete blockage of websites, and disclosure of ISP customer identities.3
The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has expressed serious concern that the TPP will:
Place Greater Liability on Internet Intermediaries, as noted above.
Compel signatory nations to enact laws banning circumvention of digital locks on movies on DVDs, video games, and players, and for embedded software.
Create New Threats for Journalists and Whistleblowers.
Enact a "Three-Step Test" Language That Puts Restrictions on Fair Use.
Adopt Criminal Sanctions: Adopt criminal sanctions for copyright infringement that is done without a commercial motivation.1
Immigration
The US Constitution gives Congress exclusive authority over immigration, immigrants, and work authorizations. Yet fast-track trade legislation essentially relinquishes that authority to the President.
NumbersUSA has pointed out that as a result of fast-track trade authority on the TPP, any President could much more easily expand guest worker programs without public debate. Indeed, that occurred under President Bush during five years of fast-track authority.17 As a result, in 2003, Congress objected to President Bush including immigration in trade agreements.
Environment
The TPP would elevate foreign-owned corporations to the same status as sovereign governments. These corporations would be able to challenge in foreign tribunals any environmental laws and regulations that they deemed a threat to their profitability. For example, provisions would disadvantage organic farmers and those who adopt more environmentally-sound farming practices.
Sovereignty Subverting Trans Pacific Partnership
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 10:17:13 GMT -5
Perot was dead wrong. FYI NAFTA has been great for this country. This concept of "bringing jobs back to the US" is absolute nonsense. Almost all of the jobs exported to other countries are low paying jobs. And you want to bring them back?? We can't even fill the low paying jobs we have here. Many of those such as installing carpets tiles, are filled by illegal aliens. You can walk into any fast food restaurant and get a job tomorrow. You can buy a dress shirt for $12 because it is made in another country. You want to bring these jobs back here?? Those $12 shirts will now cost $35.00. The US economy is based on services and for the most part, they can't be exported. You can't export your doctor or lawyer, or your barbers, or contractors. I could go on and on. You want these jobs back?? Just be careful what you wish for.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jul 3, 2016 3:30:33 GMT -5
Perot was dead wrong. FYI NAFTA has been great for this country. This concept of "bringing jobs back to the US" is absolute nonsense. Almost all of the jobs exported to other countries are low paying jobs. And you want to bring them back?? We can't even fill the low paying jobs we have here. Many of those such as installing carpets tiles, are filled by illegal aliens. You can walk into any fast food restaurant and get a job tomorrow. You can buy a dress shirt for $12 because it is made in another country. You want to bring these jobs back here?? Those $12 shirts will now cost $35.00. The US economy is based on services and for the most part, they can't be exported. You can't export your doctor or lawyer, or your barbers, or contractors. I could go on and on. You want these jobs back?? Just be careful what you wish for. Do you support the T.P.P.?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 6:12:07 GMT -5
I actually can't say at this point because I don't know enough of the details. I probably will, but I want to read the comments by people who know more than I do of which there are many. I just happen to support free trade in general. I do support NAFTA. Getting back to Trump. He states that the Chinese are cheating. That is true, but it is not anything to do with free trade. What they are doing is hacking into our technology and using it themselves. We need to stop that. Trump remarked about the Chinese cheating, but he used as an example the Chinese devaluing their currency. Actually, that is good for us as it will make Chinese goods less expensive.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jul 3, 2016 9:37:48 GMT -5
Perot was dead wrong. FYI NAFTA has been great for this country. This concept of "bringing jobs back to the US" is absolute nonsense. Almost all of the jobs exported to other countries are low paying jobs. And you want to bring them back?? We can't even fill the low paying jobs we have here. Many of those such as installing carpets tiles, are filled by illegal aliens. You can walk into any fast food restaurant and get a job tomorrow. You can buy a dress shirt for $12 because it is made in another country. You want to bring these jobs back here?? Those $12 shirts will now cost $35.00. The US economy is based on services and for the most part, they can't be exported. You can't export your doctor or lawyer, or your barbers, or contractors. I could go on and on. You want these jobs back?? Just be careful what you wish for. How do you say NAFTA has been good for this counrty? Comparative advantage -- The ability to produce a good at a lower opportunity cost than another producer. When you strip away your countries manufacturing capabilities for a "comparative advantage" that allows multinational corporations to pocket bloated compensation for running the tax base of your country out of existence and destroy the multiplier effect that production had in your own country. Not only does this offshoring and shutting down factories destroy jobs as there is no replacement jobs for these. It has set off a chain reaction of other well intended consequences. Older people cannot simply retrain. What are they to do, become hair stylists? While we are at it now that we produce almost nothing that plugs into the wall, we are suppose to jump for joy at the low prices? Those low prices are not low when people got kicked out of 15 or 25 dollar an hour manufacturing jobs for 5.75 an hour burger flipping jobs now are they? Next problem is the tax base that has been destroyed by this. Now that money doesn't flow from factory worker to service jobs such as restaurants and other places families go to spend extra money the tax base further erodes. Carrier that just let go of 1600 people solely because they decided to move their plant to Mexico. Everyone of those 1600 jobs were lost solely because of NAFTA. The same for Nabisco who is closing a Chicago plant to move to Mexico. The same as when Maytag closed up to move to Mexico. The list goes on and on where every one of those jobs were lost solely because of NAFTA. NAFTA has left all companies in this country at a major disadvantage to be able to compete with foreign nations. Our labor cost more. Our massive government regulations ad huge costs to companies here. Our having the highest corporate tax than all foreign countries ad to the cost of companies here. Our companies here being hit with a huge tax on anything they try to export into other countries while they pay us no tax at all to import their goods here. Our companies cannot compete on a level playing field where not only are we forcing companies here to leave the U.S., but it has forced companies completely out of business because of it. All this is solely because of NAFTA! And the TPP will be a 100 times worse than NAFTA is which will destroy most of the remaining jobs we have left in this country. Below is a PBS in depth discussion about the effect of NAFTA on the U.S. economhy on the subject:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 11:23:54 GMT -5
I cannot begin to tell you how much I respectfully disagree with you. There has been and continues to be job dislocations. I know that companies have and continue to move off shore. What you don't appreciate is that the huge majority of those that lose their jobs, lose NON skilled jobs. There are thousands and thousands of unskilled jobs in this country that are unfilled. That is why illegal immigrants can come in and find work. There are plenty of unskilled jobs for those who lost their jobs. Now it is true that they will lose their seniority, but those things happen. For example, printers all lost their jobs in the early 1990s as computer technology made their skills obsolete. Coal miners are losing their jobs and will continue to lose their jobs and their seniority as the economy changes. These dislocations have had nothing to do with NAFTA. The more perceptive workers go to school and develop new skills (There are numerous computer jobs available). If you bring these manufacturing jobs back, it will result in the most massive inflation this country has ever seen. BTW, our unemployment rate is quite low at the present time in spite of your claims that NAFTA is resulting in unemployment.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 3, 2016 11:55:24 GMT -5
I cannot begin to tell you how much I respectfully disagree with you. There has been and continues to be job dislocations. I know that companies have and continue to move off shore. What you don't appreciate is that the huge majority of those that lose their jobs, lose NON skilled jobs. There are thousands and thousands of unskilled jobs in this country that are unfilled. That is why illegal immigrants can come in and find work. There are plenty of unskilled jobs for those who lost their jobs. Now it is true that they will lose their seniority, but those things happen. For example, printers all lost their jobs in the early 1990s as computer technology made their skills obsolete. Coal miners are losing their jobs and will continue to lose their jobs and their seniority as the economy changes. These dislocations have had nothing to do with NAFTA. The more perceptive workers go to school and develop new skills (There are numerous computer jobs available). If you bring these manufacturing jobs back, it will result in the most massive inflation this country has ever seen. BTW, our unemployment rate is quite low at the present time in spite of your claims that NAFTA is resulting in unemployment. "I cannot begin to tell you how much I respectfully disagree with you." [goes on for three more paragraphs]
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jul 3, 2016 16:08:31 GMT -5
I cannot begin to tell you how much I respectfully disagree with you. There has been and continues to be job dislocations. I know that companies have and continue to move off shore. What you don't appreciate is that the huge majority of those that lose their jobs, lose NON skilled jobs. There are thousands and thousands of unskilled jobs in this country that are unfilled. That is why illegal immigrants can come in and find work. There are plenty of unskilled jobs for those who lost their jobs. Now it is true that they will lose their seniority, but those things happen. For example, printers all lost their jobs in the early 1990s as computer technology made their skills obsolete. Coal miners are losing their jobs and will continue to lose their jobs and their seniority as the economy changes. These dislocations have had nothing to do with NAFTA. The more perceptive workers go to school and develop new skills (There are numerous computer jobs available). If you bring these manufacturing jobs back, it will result in the most massive inflation this country has ever seen. BTW, our unemployment rate is quite low at the present time in spite of your claims that NAFTA is resulting in unemployment. Trade policies (in 2 mins)
The US constitution came into force in 1789 George Washington was inaugurated as America’s first president and the 1st document he signed was the Tariff Act, on July 4, 1789. Alexander Hamilton wrote this act to ”the encouragement and protection of manufactures” He laid out 11 points to make America strong 1. “Protecting duties.” (Tariffs.) 2. “Prohibition of rival articles or duties equivalent to prohibitions.” (Outright import bans.) 3. “Prohibition of the exportation of the materials of manufactures.” (Export bans on industrial inputs, car parts and machine parts) 4. “Pecuniary bounties.” (Export subsidies, like those provided today by the Export-Import Bank and other programs.) 5. “Premiums.” (Subsidies for key innovations. Today, we would call them research and development tax credits.) 6. “The exemption of the materials of manufactures from duty.” (Import liberalization for industrial inputs, so some other country can be the raw materials exporter.) 7. “Drawbacks of the duties which are imposed on the materials of manufactures.” (Same idea, by means of tax rebates.) 8. “The encouragement of new inventions and discoveries at home, and of the introduction into the United States of such as may have been made in other countries; particularly those, which relate to ma- chinery.” (Prizes for inventions and, more importantly, patents.) 9. “Judicious regulations for the inspection of manufactured commodities.” (Regulation of product standards, as the USDA and FDA do today.) 10. “The facilitating of pecuniary remittances from place to place.” (A sophisticated financial system.) 11. “The facilitating of the transportation of commodities.” (Good infrastructure.) For the next 150 years our federal government’s only source of income was the 15% tariff on all imported goods. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson , Theodore Roosevelt , and Abraham Lincoln (draw MT Rushmore), all supported tariffs for a strong manufacturing base. Our country’s citizen’s wealth and manufacturing base grew, under this trade policy, until we became a superpower. #1 in manufacturing, education, wealth, medium income, life expectancy, tallest buildings, fastest trains and the most exports. the American dream was alive. In 1993 president bill Clinton which was started under George H.W. Bush, abandoned tariffs, signed NAFTA and ushered in Free trade. At the time America made the most cars and computers in the world. 12.7 million cars. China was making 1 million cars and no computers. 12 free trade agreements later, we take a 2nd global snapshot. ASEAN Free Trade Area (AFTA) Asia-Pacific Trade Agreement (APTA) Central American Integration System (SICA) Central European Free Trade Agreement (CEFTA)[1] Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) G-3 Free Trade Agreement (G-3) Greater Arab Free Trade Area (GAFTA) - June 1957[2] Dominican Republic–Central America Free Trade Agreement (DR-CAFTA) Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)[3] Pacific Alliance[4] South Asia Free Trade Agreement (SAFTA)[5] Southern African Development Community (SADC) Southern Common Market (MERCOSUR) T The united states now produces 5 million cars and year and Zero computers China makes 23 million cars and 454 million computers/year America has lost between 6 million and 20 million jobs to free trade agreements. 60,000 US plants have been shut down, boxed up and moved overseas. Our country’s citizen’s wealth and manufacturing base has shrunk, under free trade. #13 in manufacturing, 36th education, 19th wealth,6th medium income, 34th in life expectancy and 3rd in exports. Asia now has 9 of the 10 tallest buildings in the world, the fastest trains and is ranked #1 in education, manufacturing and exports. How did China do this? They copied Alexander Hamilton’s list of 11 things to make America strong and renamed it, 11 things to make China strong. And now you know the rest of the story.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 19:18:34 GMT -5
I don't know where to start. First of all, are you saying that we are 34th in life expectancy is due to Free Trade Agreements?? You don't think that obesity, sedentary life style, etc. has anything to do with it. I would say that our falling rankings in most of those categories have absolutely nothing to do with free trade, but everything to do with our rising entitlements and general lack of a work ethic in this country. This country is much wealthier than we were 30 years ago. It's just that other countries are catching up. In spite of that, the dollar remains the strongest currency in the world. Asia has the fastest trains because we don't put any emphasis on trains. Everyone (or almost everyone) in this country drives a car. The average Asian (especially in China) doesn't own a car and that is why their train service and other public transportation is so good. What we have lost in manufacturing jobs has been more than made up for by jobs in other sectors of the work force. Our unemployment rate remains low. I have another interesting question. If we brought those 6-20 million jobs back to this country, where would we find the people to fill those positions? ?? For the most part, they are unskilled jobs. Right now a significant proportion of those unskilled labor positions are being filled by undocumented aliens. Don't believe that we are 36th in education. We don't have a very good primary school educations, but our secondary education in the college system is second to none and that is why so many foreign students come here to attend our Universities. While we don't manufacture Automobile parts, most cars are assembled in this country. You seem oblivious to the fact that if we bought those manufacturing jobs back here, we would experience dramatic inflation. Those $11.00 shirts that you buy here, but manufactured elsewhere, would now cost between $30-40. China is not strong and has had to devalue the Yuan recently. It's just that they started from next to nothing which explains their rapids growth rate. That we are no longer #1 in so many of the examples to point to has nothing to do with free trade, but everything to do with us.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jul 3, 2016 20:58:25 GMT -5
I don't know where to start. First of all, are you saying that we are 34th in life expectancy is due to Free Trade Agreements?? You don't think that obesity, sedentary life style, etc. has anything to do with it. I would say that our falling rankings in most of those categories have absolutely nothing to do with free trade, but everything to do with our rising entitlements and general lack of a work ethic in this country. This country is much wealthier than we were 30 years ago. It's just that other countries are catching up. In spite of that, the dollar remains the strongest currency in the world. Asia has the fastest trains because we don't put any emphasis on trains. Everyone (or almost everyone) in this country drives a car. The average Asian (especially in China) doesn't own a car and that is why their train service and other public transportation is so good. What we have lost in manufacturing jobs has been more than made up for by jobs in other sectors of the work force. Our unemployment rate remains low. I have another interesting question. If we brought those 6-20 million jobs back to this country, where would we find the people to fill those positions? ?? For the most part, they are unskilled jobs. Right now a significant proportion of those unskilled labor positions are being filled by undocumented aliens. Don't believe that we are 36th in education. We don't have a very good primary school educations, but our secondary education in the college system is second to none and that is why so many foreign students come here to attend our Universities. While we don't manufacture Automobile parts, most cars are assembled in this country. You seem oblivious to the fact that if we bought those manufacturing jobs back here, we would experience dramatic inflation. Those $11.00 shirts that you buy here, but manufactured elsewhere, would now cost between $30-40. China is not strong and has had to devalue the Yuan recently. It's just that they started from next to nothing which explains their rapids growth rate. That we are no longer #1 in so many of the examples to point to has nothing to do with free trade, but everything to do with us. Do you have any figures to support your claim that Free Trade has been good for America?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 5:20:31 GMT -5
Hi Thisjustin I wouldn't be honest if I said that I could provide such figures. This debate is much like the global warming debate in that it is impossible to prove either point of view. You look at the facts and come to your own conclusions. That is why there are people on both sides of these issues. There are very knowledgeable people who agree with you on free trade. As for my point of view, I look at the unemployment rate which is low. Every time I buy clothes I note that the prices are very reasonable. Every time I think about the jobs that have migrated overseas, I can understand the feelings of those who have lost their jobs. Although most can find other jobs, they have lost their seniority. While I have strong feelings on this issue, I do realize that it is not black and white.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jul 31, 2016 19:30:21 GMT -5
Edit note: TPP is the one area where Obama & Republicans in Congress have found common ground. If someone has a video or info as to why this trade agreement is good, please post.
Below is Obama in his own words:
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jul 31, 2016 21:49:52 GMT -5
Hi Thisjustin I wouldn't be honest if I said that I could provide such figures. This debate is much like the global warming debate in that it is impossible to prove either point of view. You look at the facts and come to your own conclusions. That is why there are people on both sides of these issues. There are very knowledgeable people who agree with you on free trade. As for my point of view, I look at the unemployment rate which is low. Every time I buy clothes I note that the prices are very reasonable. Every time I think about the jobs that have migrated overseas, I can understand the feelings of those who have lost their jobs. Although most can find other jobs, they have lost their seniority. While I have strong feelings on this issue, I do realize that it is not black and white. That's a horrible equivalency with global warming. Find a friend in Greenland and ask them what they think. Heck, ask a friend in Maryland about what's going on this week. Luckily, you have science to help on the global warming thing. The USA was always going to lose manufacturing jobs to NAFTA. And if it wasn't NAFTA, it would have been regular foreign trade. One of the larger problems was that we didn't re-tool our educational system to create a workforce that would be qualified to lose those jobs knowing that we can't compete in that arena any longer in many industries. It's a bit chicken/egg. But, given the cost of living and the real cost of sending your kids to college in the States, the manufacturing had to die out or the cost of living and education needed to drop. I can very easily imagine a world where kids no longer go away to college because it's exceedingly cost prohibitive. Georgetown was a stretch for my family when I attended, even with FA, and it's downright impossible for my nephews now.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Jul 31, 2016 22:01:49 GMT -5
Hi Thisjustin I wouldn't be honest if I said that I could provide such figures. This debate is much like the global warming debate in that it is impossible to prove either point of view. You look at the facts and come to your own conclusions. That is why there are people on both sides of these issues. There are very knowledgeable people who agree with you on free trade. As for my point of view, I look at the unemployment rate which is low. Every time I buy clothes I note that the prices are very reasonable. Every time I think about the jobs that have migrated overseas, I can understand the feelings of those who have lost their jobs. Although most can find other jobs, they have lost their seniority. While I have strong feelings on this issue, I do realize that it is not black and white. That's a horrible equivalency with global warming. Find a friend in Greenland and ask them what they think. Heck, ask a friend in Maryland about what's going on this week. Luckily, you have science to help on the global warming thing. The USA was always going to lose manufacturing jobs to NAFTA. And if it wasn't NAFTA, it would have been regular foreign trade. One of the larger problems was that we didn't re-tool our educational system to create a workforce that would be qualified to lose those jobs knowing that we can't compete in that arena any longer in many industries. It's a bit chicken/egg. But, given the cost of living and the real cost of sending your kids to college in the States, the manufacturing had to die out or the cost of living and education needed to drop. I can very easily imagine a world where kids no longer go away to college because it's exceedingly cost prohibitive. Georgetown was a stretch for my family when I attended, even with FA, and it's downright impossible for my nephews now. The cost of higher education is at the root of the class warfare in the country. You basically have need based financial aid for those that show truly elite standards and can't afford it which university's tout as accepting anyone and then you get the normal prep school kids, alumni (with the cash) and other crowds who get a ticket because they pay. It's not fair but that's the current system.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Aug 1, 2016 4:14:52 GMT -5
Hi Thisjustin I wouldn't be honest if I said that I could provide such figures. This debate is much like the global warming debate in that it is impossible to prove either point of view. You look at the facts and come to your own conclusions. That is why there are people on both sides of these issues. There are very knowledgeable people who agree with you on free trade. As for my point of view, I look at the unemployment rate which is low. Every time I buy clothes I note that the prices are very reasonable. Every time I think about the jobs that have migrated overseas, I can understand the feelings of those who have lost their jobs. Although most can find other jobs, they have lost their seniority. While I have strong feelings on this issue, I do realize that it is not black and white. That's a horrible equivalency with global warming. Find a friend in Greenland and ask them what they think. Heck, ask a friend in Maryland about what's going on this week. Luckily, you have science to help on the global warming thing. The USA was always going to lose manufacturing jobs to NAFTA. And if it wasn't NAFTA, it would have been regular foreign trade. One of the larger problems was that we didn't re-tool our educational system to create a workforce that would be qualified to lose those jobs knowing that we can't compete in that arena any longer in many industries. It's a bit chicken/egg. But, given the cost of living and the real cost of sending your kids to college in the States, the manufacturing had to die out or the cost of living and education needed to drop. I can very easily imagine a world where kids no longer go away to college because it's exceedingly cost prohibitive. Georgetown was a stretch for my family when I attended, even with FA, and it's downright impossible for my nephews now. Wait, my thumbs up was for the last part, not the global warming part
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 1, 2016 4:41:18 GMT -5
TPP is just like NAFTA in so much as Hillary has done her customary politically expedient 180 on it.
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 1, 2016 7:36:12 GMT -5
TPP is just like NAFTA in so much as Hillary has done her customary politically expedient 180 on it. Who cares? You're supporting a guy who can't maintain cohesion on a position between different questions in the same interview.
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