This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jun 24, 2015 11:35:30 GMT -5
What is Trans Pacific Partnership Fast Track (TPP) Agreement? (This Bill Passed The Senate Yesterday)
This is the Largest Trade Deal in US history.
For kchoya... There will not be a cable news video as ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC (excluding the Ed Shultz Show & Rachel Maddow Show) are not talking about the issue.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jun 24, 2015 15:21:08 GMT -5
The media blackout, the secrecy surrounding the negotiations, the presence of corporate representatives in negotiations, all of these things point to something ugly. The leaked parts of the treaty confirm it.
This would be an issue that left and right can come together on, if only there wasn't such a concerted effort to keep it quiet.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jun 25, 2015 11:10:35 GMT -5
The media blackout, the secrecy surrounding the negotiations, the presence of corporate representatives in negotiations, all of these things point to something ugly. The leaked parts of the treaty confirm it. This would be an issue that left and right can come together on, if only there wasn't such a concerted effort to keep it quiet. Trans Pacific Partnership The TPP is a corporatist, piece of legislation that is essentially just like NAFTA for the Pacific. I would think every U.S. citizen would be outraged as it takes away our national sovereignty. Corporations will now have the power to sue the U.S. and take it to an international court to over rule local environmental laws and labor laws. President Obama, 13 Democrats and majority vote of Republican Senators voted to get this bill passed (the bill has already passed the house). It also gives whomever the President is, Executive (Single) Authority on trade deals. A letter was signed and sent to New York State's Congressional Delegation to urge them to support the trade agreement and not to oppose President Obama's on this issue. People who signed the letter: Rupert Murdoch (News Corp, Fox News) John Paulson (Goldman Sachs) Steven Schwarzman Wilbur Ross Jerry Speyer Henry Kravis
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jun 25, 2015 14:17:28 GMT -5
Here’s how much corporations paid US senators to fast-track the TPP billExceprt below from the Guardian: Two days before the fast-track vote, Obama was a few votes shy of having the filibuster-proof majority he needed. Ron Wyden and seven other Senate Democrats announced they were on the fence on 12 May, distinguishing themselves from the Senate’s 54 Republicans and handful of Democrats as the votes to sway.
In just 24 hours, Wyden and five of those Democratic holdouts – Michael Bennet of Colorado, Dianne Feinstein of California, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Patty Murray of Washington, and Bill Nelson of Florida – caved and voted for fast-track.
Bennet, Murray, and Wyden – all running for re-election in 2016 – received $105,900 between the three of them. Bennet, who comes from the more purple state of Colorado, got $53,700 in corporate campaign donations between January and March 2015, according to Channing’s research.
Almost 100% of the Republicans in the US Senate voted for fast-track – the only two non-votes on TPA were a Republican from Louisiana and a Republican from Alaska.
Senator Rob Portman of Ohio, who is the former US trade representative, has been one of the loudest proponents of the TPP. (In a comment to the Guardian Portman’s office said: “Senator Portman is not a vocal proponent of TPP - he has said it’s still being negotiated and if and when an agreement is reached he will review it carefully.”) He received $119,700 from 14 different corporations between January and March, most of which comes from donations from Goldman Sachs ($70,600), Pfizer ($15,700), and Procter & Gamble ($12,900). Portman is expected to run against former Ohio governor Ted Strickland in 2016 in one of the most politically competitive states in the country.
Seven Republicans who voted “yea” to fast-track and are also running for re-election next year cleaned up between January and March. Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia received $102,500 in corporate contributions. Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, best known for proposing a Monsanto-written bill in 2013 that became known as the Monsanto Protection Act, received $77,900 – $13,500 of which came from Monsanto.
Arizona senator and former presidential candidate John McCain received $51,700 in the first quarter of 2015. Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina received $60,000 in corporate donations. Eighty-one-year-old senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, who is running for his seventh Senate term, received $35,000. Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, who will be running for his first full six-year term in 2016, received $67,500 from pro-TPP corporations.
“It’s a rare thing for members of Congress to go against the money these days,” said Mansur Gidfar, spokesman for the anti-corruption group Represent.Us. “They know exactly which special interests they need to keep happy if they want to fund their reelection campaigns or secure a future job as a lobbyist.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jul 5, 2015 17:14:42 GMT -5
Members of Congress only allowed 88 seconds to debate a bill under TPP.
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Post by badgerhoya on Jul 6, 2015 12:07:49 GMT -5
A bit disingenuous, as Congress will definitely be able to debate and see the final bill... once the negotiations have been completed. Rather than doing an up or down vote on this level of tariffs, or that level of enforcement, it makes sense to put it all together in a single package that can be assessed at once. Unless the idea of free trade is so reprehensible that you'd rather stop it before it even begins.
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Post by This Just In on Jul 6, 2015 17:20:05 GMT -5
A bit disingenuous, as Congress will definitely be able to debate and see the final bill... once the negotiations have been completed. Rather than doing an up or down vote on this level of tariffs, or that level of enforcement, it makes sense to put it all together in a single package that can be assessed at once. Unless the idea of free trade is so reprehensible that you'd rather stop it before it even begins. Does anything about the TPP seem unconstitutional to you? The United States sovereignty is under attack. No one in Congress fully knows what is in the agreement. It is being sold to the public as a free trade agreement but it is really a treaty between 12 nations made by Corporatist.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 6, 2015 18:49:15 GMT -5
Not to worry. Should anything be fundamentally in error in the bill as written and signed by Chairman Obama, the Roberts Court will ride to the rescue.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jul 7, 2015 8:51:31 GMT -5
A bit disingenuous, as Congress will definitely be able to debate and see the final bill... once the negotiations have been completed. Rather than doing an up or down vote on this level of tariffs, or that level of enforcement, it makes sense to put it all together in a single package that can be assessed at once. Unless the idea of free trade is so reprehensible that you'd rather stop it before it even begins. A bit disingenuous indeed.
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Post by badgerhoya on Jul 7, 2015 23:16:05 GMT -5
A bit disingenuous, as Congress will definitely be able to debate and see the final bill... once the negotiations have been completed. Rather than doing an up or down vote on this level of tariffs, or that level of enforcement, it makes sense to put it all together in a single package that can be assessed at once. Unless the idea of free trade is so reprehensible that you'd rather stop it before it even begins. Does anything about the TPP seem unconstitutional to you? The United States sovereignty is under attack. No one in Congress fully knows what is in the agreement. It is being sold to the public as a free trade agreement but it is really a treaty between 12 nations made by Corporatist. I'm sorry for not watching the link. Did Alex Jones claim that the 12 countries working on TPP were doing so to create a secret alien landing zone in the Pacific, a liberal utopia where no one speaks English and everyone has plural marriage, or a constitution where everyone's sovereignty was passed over to a panel chaired by the Dalai Lama, Ban Ki-Moon and George Soros. I can never keep all of them straight.
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Post by badgerhoya on Jul 7, 2015 23:21:35 GMT -5
Not to worry. Should anything be fundamentally in error in the bill as written and signed by Chairman Obama, the Roberts Court will ride to the rescue. Except that Congress still has to pass it. It's not done just because USTR has closed negotiations. I'm also not arguing for passing this thing out of hand either. But to say that anyone really knows today exactly what the final product will look like is a farce - these things will change and change and change again til the deal is done or it isn't . All you have to do is look at the last 20+ years of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations to see an example.
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Post by This Just In on Jul 8, 2015 8:01:16 GMT -5
Does anything about the TPP seem unconstitutional to you? The United States sovereignty is under attack. No one in Congress fully knows what is in the agreement. It is being sold to the public as a free trade agreement but it is really a treaty between 12 nations made by Corporatist. I'm sorry for not watching the link. Did Alex Jones claim that the 12 countries working on TPP were doing so to create a secret alien landing zone in the Pacific, a liberal utopia where no one speaks English and everyone has plural marriage, or a constitution where everyone's sovereignty was passed over to a panel chaired by the Dalai Lama, Ban Ki-Moon and George Soros. I can never keep all of them straight. I get the skepticism with Alex Jones, but like a broken clock which is right 2x's a day, I believe Alex Jones is correct in his critic of TPP. Below is Senator Elizabeth Warren delivering the same message about TPP as Alex Jones.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 8, 2015 8:42:26 GMT -5
And who would know better about unfair treaties than a full blooded Native Anerican like Liz Warren?
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jul 8, 2015 10:10:01 GMT -5
Great joke, mind if I use it during my nursing home standup tour?
I think the issue with the secret negotiations is that many of the issues that need to be finalized are details about provisions that are in and of themselves very controversial. For conservatives who seem to adamantly protect American sovereignty, they seem to be very quiet on this issue. Similarly, liberals who claim to be strong proponents of worker protections are also suspiciously quiet.
Having read a lot of the leaked material, the intellectual property provisions are what bother me the most. Basically they're trying to do with the TPP what they couldn't do democratically with SOPA and PIPA.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 8, 2015 11:12:21 GMT -5
Great joke, mind if I use it during my nursing home standup tour? No. I can not and will not be party to elder abuse...
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Post by This Just In on Jul 8, 2015 11:39:49 GMT -5
Great joke, mind if I use it during my nursing home standup tour? No. I can not and will not be party to elder abuse... All jokes aside, does anything about TPP's secrecy concern you or what affect it might have on the lives of your children? Robert Reich Former United States Secretary of Labor.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 8, 2015 11:47:42 GMT -5
Everything about this deal and its shadowy birth troubles me.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 8, 2015 12:43:12 GMT -5
All jokes aside, does anything about TPP's secrecy concern you or what affect it might have on the lives of your children? Can you explain how TPP is more "secret" than any still-being-negotiated trade deal of the past? I understand that Elizabeth Warren and others might have justifiable concerns about some of the provisions which have been negotiated or want to move other provisions yet-to-be negotiated in their direction. I don't understand how you can successfully negotiate a trade deal out in the open given that they aren't a zero sum game.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 8, 2015 14:22:33 GMT -5
All jokes aside, does anything about TPP's secrecy concern you or what affect it might have on the lives of your children? Can you explain how TPP is more "secret" than any still-being-negotiated trade deal of the past? I understand that Elizabeth Warren and others might have justifiable concerns about some of the provisions which have been negotiated or want to move other provisions yet-to-be negotiated in their direction. I don't understand how you can successfully negotiate a trade deal out in the open given that they aren't a zero sum game. I think the active enforcement (often accompanied by disparagement of opponents of the deal) of the secrecy of the proposed text is what is bothering a lot of people. This is Washington. Everything leaks, even secret trade deals and armament deals with Iran. For Members of Congress to be told they have to go in a black box in the basement to be able to read anything is offensive to them (justifiably or not). Additionally, I think the secrecy with this particular deal is giving a lot people the heebie jeebies because there have been a few details leaked out, like changes to intellectual property rights (as noted by quickplay) and possible backdoors to immigration quotas and the like. Third, I think the adoption of TPA at the same time the TPP treaty is being negotiated gives people pause as well.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jul 8, 2015 14:48:18 GMT -5
All jokes aside, does anything about TPP's secrecy concern you or what affect it might have on the lives of your children? Can you explain how TPP is more "secret" than any still-being-negotiated trade deal of the past? I understand that Elizabeth Warren and others might have justifiable concerns about some of the provisions which have been negotiated or want to move other provisions yet-to-be negotiated in their direction. I don't understand how you can successfully negotiate a trade deal out in the open given that they aren't a zero sum game. Look at who's doing the negotiation... For 1 a general concession can be made that NAFTA was discussed openly in Congress and the media. NAFTA had transparency so that the public could look at it to determine their own opinions and members of Congress were allowed to talk about the details of the agreement to the public. TPP is different, Congress is being asked to vote on it, then they are allowed full enlightenment as to what is in it. The media has been almost at full black out as far as discussing the largest trade agreement in U.S. history. Members of Congress are not allowed to discuss what is in the agreement to public/media. How come no one knows what is fully in this agreement except for the President, his advisors and attorney's representing the largest corporations in America like Disney, Monsanto, Coca-Cola, News Corp, Caterpillar, Google, Ebay, Facebook, Fed Ex, GAP, General Motors, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Viacom,Visa, Wal-mart, Conoco Phillips, Phillip Morris, Microsoft..this is just some, but it is the who's who of global companies. Do you believe anyone these companies have your best interest at heart, especially when this agreement will allow them to sue the U.S. in international tribunals? Citizens United gave corporations, person hood. The Trans-Pacific Partnership will make corporations, nations unto themselves and give whomever the President is unprecedented authority... And this information had to be leaked, not told the public. This video speaks about Australia's view of TPP.
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