This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jun 20, 2015 22:53:41 GMT -5
Is It Time For S.Carolina To Take Down The Conferderate Flag?
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Jun 21, 2015 9:36:41 GMT -5
In 1865 it was time
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 21, 2015 11:51:21 GMT -5
It is way past time. There is zero redeeming value to flying that flag on any government building in the United States of America.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jun 21, 2015 23:25:42 GMT -5
How the Confederacy lives on in the flags of seven Southern statesAn excerpt from article is below: The shooting of nine black Charleston churchgoers by a young man allegedly inspired by white supremacist ideology has reignited a controversy over the proper place of the Confederate flag in contemporary society. Photos have surfaced showing the suspect, 21-year-old Dylann Roof, brandishing the flag. It adorned the license plates on his car. And due to an odd quirk of South Carolina law, the Confederate flag on the statehouse ground -- seen above, in the form of the Confederate Battle Flag -- flew at full mast this week even as the state and U.S. flag were lowered.
Defenders of the flag say it's a symbol of Southern heritage. Detractors maintain that hatred and racism are an inextricable part of that heritage. With all the focus on South Carolina, it's easy to forget that Confederate symbolism still adorns many official state flags in the South. Some states, like Georgia and Mississippi, have seen fierce political battles over explicit Confederate imagery in their flags. In other states, the references are subtler.
As of the 2010 Census, these state were home to about 60 million Americans -- including 12 million African-Americans, meaning roughly one third of the nation's black population lives under a state flag that evokes, at least in the eyes of many, the Confederacy.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jun 23, 2015 10:43:01 GMT -5
MSNBC's Chris Hayes conversation with S. Carolina's Representative Mark Sanford Thursday night, which was less than 24 hrs after the shooting...the momentum of the Confederate Flag debate definitely picked up speed.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 25, 2015 7:21:37 GMT -5
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jun 25, 2015 11:46:13 GMT -5
Bill O'Reilly declares war on "Yahoo News"!!!!....
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 25, 2015 12:32:16 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 25, 2015 13:11:53 GMT -5
Perhaps the more pertinent question is whether we should erase all references to the Confederacy and slavery? A movement appears to be afoot across the country: Historical cleansing is a dangerous and slippery slope. What is past is not meant to be excised but be learned from. Remember, this is a University whose founder owned slaves and where a large number of its student body hailed from the Confederacy during the War. www.thehoya.com/slavery/
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 25, 2015 13:18:52 GMT -5
Let us also be mindful that unless and until monuments, statues, etc are removed, they are public and/or private property and destruction in the name of protest is against the rule of law. If you hate the Robert E Lee statue have a rally, sing, carry placards ,but no one has the right to destroy.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jun 25, 2015 14:03:36 GMT -5
Let us also be mindful that unless and until monuments, statues, etc are removed, they are public and/or private property and destruction in the name of protest is against the rule of law. If you hate the Robert E Lee statue have a rally, sing, carry placards ,but no one has the right to destroy. I think that is fair and completely correct, but it also requires a willingness to have a discussion about the impact of certain celebrations of southern "heritage."
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 25, 2015 14:06:57 GMT -5
You and I are in complete accord.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jun 25, 2015 14:18:33 GMT -5
I think that somewhere, an angel just got its wings.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 25, 2015 17:11:47 GMT -5
Perhaps the more pertinent question is whether we should erase all references to the Confederacy and slavery? A movement appears to be afoot across the country: Historical cleansing is a dangerous and slippery slope. What is past is not meant to be excised but be learned from. Remember, this is a University whose founder owned slaves and where a large number of its student body hailed from the Confederacy during the War. www.thehoya.com/slavery/And now Apple is removing all Civil War games from its App Store.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jun 25, 2015 17:17:20 GMT -5
As others have said, we shouldn't go around trying to erase history. But we also don't need to glorify certain aspects of it. I always bristle when people dismiss Jefferson's contributions to this country out of hand "because he owned slaves," but I do have a real problem with glorifying people who are only historically significant/well known because they took up arms against this country in order to preserve slavery, costing hundreds of thousands of American lives in the process. It's bad enough that individual southern states insist on naming their counties, roads, etc. after Confederate figures, but it's downright it appalling that there are Confederate generals with statues in the U.S. Capitol. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Statuary_Hall_Collection#Collection
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 25, 2015 17:41:18 GMT -5
What took them so long?
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Jun 25, 2015 21:39:38 GMT -5
I'm no fan of the Confderate flag and its continued display, but DFW's comment got me thinking: should Georgetown drop the "grey" color from its school colors because of its origins? (Rhetorical question only, but illustrates perhaps the challenge of drawing the line at what something represents.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jun 25, 2015 21:57:26 GMT -5
I'm no fan of the Confderate flag and its continued display, but DFW's comment got me thinking: should Georgetown drop the "grey" color from its school colors because of its origins? (Rhetorical question only, but illustrates perhaps the challenge of drawing the line at what something represents. It's a challenge, but I think in the vast majority of cases it's not a particularly difficult one. For starters, one should, like the Supreme Court, look at original intent. The reason for running the Stars & Bars up the flagpole in Columbia, SC was to give a defiant middle finger to the forces of integration. Uses of the Confederate Battle Flag, as in the state flags of Mississippi and Georgia, tend to come from a similar place. The purpose of including the color gray in Georgetown's school colors was to symbolize reconciliation, not celebrate the ideals of the Confederacy. The difference is pretty obvious. There may be some gray (no pun intended), as with the stained glass windows in Riggs. In most cases, though, it's pretty evident what the right course of action is, and whether a particular purpose is to inform (historical) or glorify (hagiographic). Removing all traces from computer games is exceedingly dumb, especially since shooting up Nazis is the gist of every other computer/video game ever. Oftentimes, reflexive moves like that are made in order to avoid precisely the sort of difficult engagement with an issue that is absolutely necessary. Such things tend to autocorrect... in the U.S., anyway.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 26, 2015 9:56:25 GMT -5
I would not want to be the kid that walks on Scalia's lawn this week. Good lord.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 26, 2015 16:21:18 GMT -5
As others have said, we shouldn't go around trying to erase history. But we also don't need to glorify certain aspects of it. I always bristle when people dismiss Jefferson's contributions to this country out of hand "because he owned slaves," but I do have a real problem with glorifying people who are only historically significant/well known because they took up arms against this country in order to preserve slavery, costing hundreds of thousands of American lives in the process. It's bad enough that individual southern states insist on naming their counties, roads, etc. after Confederate figures, but it's downright it appalling that there are Confederate generals with statues in the U.S. Capitol. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Statuary_Hall_Collection#CollectionWhile we're purging all references to those that believed that African-Americans were racially inferior to whites, lets get rid of all monuments and structures named after Woodrow Wilson. Any suggestions for the new name for the Beltway drawbridge? Maybe the Wilson Center can become the Nancy Pelosi International Center for Scholars?
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