Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jun 4, 2015 8:57:44 GMT -5
I've been a season ticket holder for over 20 years, excluding the last year of Esherick, but I've decided not to renew. If you don't care, stop reading and don't reply. But I thought some people might be interested to know why and whether my decision is an indication of things to come. Also, I am not renewing my season tickets but I will continue to attend some games home and away and make my donation to the program and support the Hoyas. A few notes:
This has nothing to do with the team's performance or prospects. Since JTIII's arrival, the team has done great in my opinion. I'm as disappointed as the next guy about NCAA games recently, but I look at it holistically and we have been in position almost every year to win the league and compete for the Final Four. And I think next year they will be very good.
#1 Reason: The home schedule is simply not exciting to me as a whole. Pre-conference, there is one maybe two games of even marginal interest on average. And the conference - I'm sorry, but the Big East, while decent quality, does not approach the Big East of the past in terms of rivalries and emotional connection Maybe it's not rational, but I can't get excited over more than 2 or 3 league opponents. So when I look at the schedule of 14 games and see 3-5 at most that I am burning to attend, then I start questioning whether season tickets make sense. The away non-conference schedule and tournaments are really excellent but that doesn't do anything for me as a season ticket holder other than possibly burn up funds that I could use to attend some of those away games.
#2 Reason: The in-game experience is not pleasant. I love the convenience and facilities of the Verizon Center, but it is the programming that drives me a little nuts. From the time you enter the bowl, you are bombarded by advertisements blaring over the PA system. It is constant pregame and during game. I understand the desire to sell every second of time to generate revenue, but I'd frankly rather pay more for the tickets and not be subjected to this noisy overload of ads. Even the public service announcements annoy me - I don't come to the game with my young kids to hear about sexual abuse, etc. I'm old, but not over the hill, do others feel this way or am I just hyper-sensitive? I made one comment to Verizon Center, no response. At other major sporting events I attend, this doesn't happen - the ads are more visual and not at a high decibel level during every single timeout, halftime, etc. Also, the Wifi is not good and food/drinks are lousy and overpriced (we tend to expect that here, but I've attended games out west in cities like San Fran, LA and Seattle and they do it better).
#3 Reason: This is a "professional" sports team and anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. Our coach makes $3 million per year (many multiples of the University President and other faculty members) and he takes kids like Josh Smith and others I prefer not to name who don't reflect the school at all. I don't mind this actually because this is what it takes to win these days, but I really can't view my season tickets as supporting a charitable/educational endeavor anymore. So if season tickets don't make sense on their own as a 100% sports-oriented purchase, then they aren't worth having.
#4 Reason: It makes no economic sense for the seats I sit in at least (100-level middle section, $1000 per seat). With StubHub and others, tickets are always available in the best seat locations at reasonable prices. Even if I paid top dollar for the 1-2 games each year that demand premium pricing, I'd be paying face value or less at every other game. Rubbing salt in the wound is Georgetown itself offering discounted packages and promotions for people who don't have season tickets. By marketing those offers, they really turned me off as I found myself asking "Why buy the season tickets when I can buy a Big East package or a 5-game package, etc.?"
#5 Reason: Related to the general schedule point, the game dates and times are not good. Lots of games scheduled around the holidays when people travel and 9pm weeknight games are a real burden. Not family-friendly or even working-adult friendly. And all the games are on TV, making the choice of missing a game easier.
#6 Reason: College basketball as a whole is less entertaining than it used to be. A lot has been written over the past few years (see Geno Auriemma's comments for example), but the games are now often over two hours when they used to be 1:45 or so. The foul calls, the incessant time outs, the video reviews, the prolonged ends of games, and some odd rules are really starting to have a negative impact. Sounds like the NCAA is thinking about making some changes, but the jury is still out on that.
Some of these are outside Gtown's control, but it doesn't change the facts of what it means to be (or not be) a season ticket holder. Go Hoyas.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 4, 2015 9:07:11 GMT -5
Seems like the worst time to do this with Syracuse coming to town and Uconn the following year.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 4, 2015 10:51:24 GMT -5
#3 Reason: This is a "professional" sports team and anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. Our coach makes $3 million per year (many multiples of the University President and other faculty members) and he takes kids like Josh Smith and others I prefer not to name who don't reflect the school at all. I don't mind this actually because this is what it takes to win these days, but I really can't view my season tickets as supporting a charitable/educational endeavor anymore. So if season tickets don't make sense on their own as a 100% sports-oriented purchase, then they aren't worth having. #6 Reason: College basketball as a whole is less entertaining than it used to be. A lot has been written over the past few years (see Geno Auriemma's comments for example), but the games are now often over two hours when they used to be 1:45 or so. The foul calls, the incessant time outs, the video reviews, the prolonged ends of games, and some odd rules are really starting to have a negative impact. Sounds like the NCAA is thinking about making some changes, but the jury is still out on that. So I assume you're going to stop following the team all together? It's been a while since I've seen a more "look at me; look how important I am" post.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 4, 2015 11:24:00 GMT -5
#3 Reason: This is a "professional" sports team and anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. Our coach makes $3 million per year (many multiples of the University President and other faculty members) and he takes kids like Josh Smith and others I prefer not to name who don't reflect the school at all. I don't mind this actually because this is what it takes to win these days, but I really can't view my season tickets as supporting a charitable/educational endeavor anymore. So if season tickets don't make sense on their own as a 100% sports-oriented purchase, then they aren't worth having. #6 Reason: College basketball as a whole is less entertaining than it used to be. A lot has been written over the past few years (see Geno Auriemma's comments for example), but the games are now often over two hours when they used to be 1:45 or so. The foul calls, the incessant time outs, the video reviews, the prolonged ends of games, and some odd rules are really starting to have a negative impact. Sounds like the NCAA is thinking about making some changes, but the jury is still out on that. So I assume you're going to stop following the team all together? It's been a while since I've seen a more "look at me; look how important I am" post. Wouldn't it be great if we lived in a world which was just a bit more civil?
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Jun 4, 2015 11:38:10 GMT -5
Some valid points. I don't agree with some of them but i can see your point of view.
1. Very tough to get a great home schedule. As it is, i think JT3 has done a fantastic job beefing up the schedule. In recent years we have played some of the hardiest schedules in the country. Granted, some of the best noncon games are on a neutral court but it ain't easy getting marquee teams to play home and away. But the fact that we have upcoming future home games with Syracuse, UConn, Kansas and Maryland is downright next to impossible. It doesn't matter that they are spread out over 3 years, that's an A plus plus in my book.
2. It's all about the game. Yes, plenty of nuisances, can't argue with you there. All i can say is block it out. Btw, Verizon may be worse but almost every arena has crappy wifi and overpriced and lousy food/drinks.
3. You want a competitive team or a bad team? Every top level team is becoming more and more professional.
4. No argument here.
5. This is Georgetown specific. That's what happens when you share an arena with two pro teams.
6. Once again, it's about the game and the competition. If i came across a grade school basketball game and one team is wearing Hoyas and the other Syracuse, i'd have a bigtime rooting interest. College basketball isn't what it used to be but that's fine.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jun 4, 2015 11:38:10 GMT -5
So I assume you're going to stop following the team all together? It's been a while since I've seen a more "look at me; look how important I am" post. Wouldn't it be great if we lived in a world which was just a bit more civil? Agreed. You may disagree with the substance of DHall's post, but I don't think he wrote it in a self-aggrandizing manner nor do I think it comes off that way. Fact is, this type of post is in the offseason's wheelhouse.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jun 4, 2015 13:22:01 GMT -5
If you can't excited about a top 15 program that you presumably have followed for 20 years that will have a top 5 SOS the next few years with 3 or 4 NBA prospects on the team, then maybe it's time to relinquish your seats.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Jun 4, 2015 13:33:43 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be great if we lived in a world which was just a bit more civil? Agreed. You may disagree with the substance of DHall's post, but I don't think he wrote it in a self-aggrandizing manner nor do I think it comes off that way. Fact is, this type of post is in the offseason's wheelhouse. Agreed. I didn't see any "look at me" in the original post. Agree or disagree, but he has some substantive complaints. On the other hand, kchoyas post was one of the more ironic, lacking-in-self-awareness posts that I've seen in a while. All he does is jump on with snarky comments. It's all about looking at how funny/sarcastic/snide I can be. Pot...meet kettle.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Jun 4, 2015 14:18:33 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing the original post DHall - all reasonable concerns/perspectives. The narcissistic, "look at me post" is the respondent's.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jun 4, 2015 14:47:18 GMT -5
You are also highlighting a lot of reasons why people are just as happy to sit at home and watch on their high def TV. All sports are dealing with this as big football schools are finding it harder to pack a 100K plus stadium during their non-marquee games and NFL teams are now reshaping their stadiums to lower capacity (see Skins, Jags, etc.). A lot of the points are valid with some being Gtown specific and others just the way sports/TV are nowadays. I'll still keep my seats as I enjoy the 15 to 18 trips to Verizon in the fall/winter even if it means a few 9pm games against Depaul or some other less then marquee team. The Old Big East still featured Depaul, South Florida, Rutgers, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Miami and other less then spectacular hoops so I don't buy the new conference alignment bit.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 4, 2015 14:53:01 GMT -5
It makes sense--there's nothing in Dhall's post I haven't heard from friends and colleagues. Ultimately, it's your entertainment budget, and it's a personal call as to what you're spending on. I went through a similar thought process when I gave up my half-season DC United tickets two seasons ago (like Dhall will with Georgetown, I still go to RFK, just not as often).
This of course all mirrors trends going on throughout the college and professional sports world. Live game attendance is taking a hit as more folks either decide the whole live experience isn't worth the time/money/hassle or doesn't provide enough of an experience. One of the sports stories of the week in DC is the Skins taking more seats out of the upper deck at FedEx, a tacit admission they're having trouble selling season tickets. When it's season tickets--a not insignificant chunk of change--it's even more pronounced.
That's to say nothing of improvements to TV coverage, from HD sets to better announcers/analysis/in-game content to actual broadcasts being available. That last part seems simple, but consider that for all the things I think are lame about FS1, that TV deal last season put I believe all but one GU game on a national TV network, vice syndicated regionally or not shown at all. Remember, as recently as 10 years ago, the GU-Syracuse game at the Carrier Dome wasn't shown on TV in DC, and now you can watch us play Texas A&M-CC on your cable package. When you don't have the pull of "I NEED to be at Verizon to even see this game" season tickets lose some value, especially when going to some of those games involves a 9pm tip.
But I'm repeating things we've all heard already. So what's GU to do about it?
I can't know for sure, but the recent spate of non-conference contracts--UConn, Syracuse, Maryland--is almost certainly primarily a way to get fans back in the seats after we took a huge attendance hit in the Big East realignment. No way to sugarcoat that--the home schedule the past two seasons was awful. Now we've added three schools that would almost certainly make the Top 5 if you polled Hoya fans on the non-conference opponents they'd most like to see, cycling through (with Kansas) over the next 3-4 years.
The ticket office also keeps lowering the season ticket price. The per-game cost for season tickets for my section has gone down each year of the new Big East. My total cost (including donation--which hasn't changed in forever) is 40% less than it was at the height of Hibbert-induced demand. IDK how widespread those discounts are (and to be fair, they make more a difference at the $50 donation level than the $1000 level) but someone in McDonough at least has eyes that see empty purple seats in the 100 level.
The in-arena experience...yeah, I'm throwing my hands up. It's dreadful, it's been the exact same kind of dreadful for years, and our in-game announcer/promo guy is worse than Blake Esherick. The location is fine, the arena isn't grand spanking new but it's fine, but my God I want to gouge my eyes out listening to Year #8 of the Hoya Shuffle.
Georgetown could do something about those things, and the Big East could figure out the start times if we'd just send a Time Zones map to HQ. But even those probably don't solve the problem of Life Happens. The Stonewalls section even keeps bleeding people because, ya know, people in their late 20s get busier jobs and get married and move to the burbs and suddenly you don't have time to make a Duck Hunt tifo cause the Peterman Project's due at 0800.
But anyway, see ya at the good games Dhall! And, IDK, I guess use Coakley Realty or something.
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Post by centercourt400s on Jun 4, 2015 15:44:41 GMT -5
Ok, there are some valid points here and I can understand why season tix don't appeal to everyone. I just simply cannot agree with what you list as your #1 point.
Do you come to Verizon to see the Hoyas or their opponent? For me the fun of attending the games is to see the Hoyas, whether they are playing Kansas or Seton Hall or Siena. I appreciate watching games against high caliber opponents but a big name doesn't guarantee a good game. I've had more fun at many early season blowouts than I did watching the Hoyas play Kansas at Verizon last year. Not saying I didn't enjoy the Kansas game but was it the highlight of the home season? Not by any means. Watching bench players get early season or blowout minutes and how they make use of them can be just as fun as watching the starters against a top opponent... because I'm there to watch the Hoyas, not their opponent.
I watch the games in person because of the team, the players, the coaches and the intangibles you get from being there for (most) every game. You get to watch players grow from lost freshmen to question marks to enigmas to important contributors (thanks Aaron!). You get to see how players interact and assist each other even when the cameras aren't on them. Being there lets you watch what you want to watch and if that means I'm watching Tyler Adams on the bench instead of Josh Smith in the paint so be it. Being there lets you see what is going on during timeouts and pre/post game. Being there lets you mingle and share an emotional experience with a community of people that (for the most part) share your passion for the Hoyas. And all this benefit of being there is the same for me whether the opponent is top 20 or top 200.
I'll certainly be happy if the Hoyas bring in a couple of top 20 non-conference opponents every season but if a season or two goes by without them, I'll still have fun and I'll still keep attending because I know that the Hoyas, a team I respect and admire in a sometimes suspect sport, will be on the court each and every time doing their best to win. Isn't that the point after all?
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jun 4, 2015 18:42:51 GMT -5
I appreciate the responses (most of them). Two things jump out - the ease and quality of TV coverage and DVRs and all of that is having a negative impact (Redskins attendance down too) and those factors certainly play into it for me. I wonder if those of you who live outside of DC travel less to the games since you can watch them? Ironically, if the games weren't on TV, I'd probably keep the seats. Secondly, I guess I am not quite as die hard as others since the opponent is important to me when I am putting down $1000 per seat - cheers (honestly) to the fans who will show up each week no matter the opponent, and I will do the same ... sometimes, just not over and over again as is happening with the season tickets.
As I wrote, I don't blame Gtown for all of this, but some of it is within their control and some less-than-ideal choices are being made by them.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Jun 4, 2015 18:51:42 GMT -5
Agreed. You may disagree with the substance of DHall's post, but I don't think he wrote it in a self-aggrandizing manner nor do I think it comes off that way. Fact is, this type of post is in the offseason's wheelhouse. Agreed. I didn't see any "look at me" in the original post. Agree or disagree, but he has some substantive complaints. On the other hand, kchoyas post was one of the more ironic, lacking-in-self-awareness posts that I've seen in a while. All he does is jump on with snarky comments. It's all about looking at how funny/sarcastic/snide I can be. Pot...meet kettle. Nailed It
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 4, 2015 19:07:31 GMT -5
The Old Big East still featured Depaul, South Florida, Rutgers, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Miami and other less then spectacular hoops so I don't buy the new conference alignment bit. It's not that the Old Big East also featured blah opponents, it's that the Old Big East also featured way more marquee opponents. A standard I've mentioned before comes into play: pick a season under JTIII, and list what you consider to be the five best home matchups on paper (not based on how exciting the game turned out to be). The Old Big East, even with unbalanced schedules, offered tremendous depth of interesting matchups even if the non-conference schedule was blah. The New Big East ain't even close to there yet, and that matters when you're asking a Season Ticket holder to commit to 15 games. There will always be uninteresting filler games, but you better balance them out with good ones to keep people renewing. The new home and homes are a good (and welcome) start. Do you come to Verizon to see the Hoyas or their opponent? Let's be fair though: even if you do go to see the Hoyas, certain games are more entertaining, at least on paper. Countless sports teams--including Georgetown basketball!--recognize this by offering variable pricing for single-game tickets depending on the opponent. If Dhall told you he could only attend five games next season, you wouldn't say "well, just throw a dart at the schedule five times, after all you're going to see the Hoyas". You'd tell him: go to Syracuse, Nova, etc. And I'm sure you or I would do the same, schedule permitting.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Jun 4, 2015 19:25:44 GMT -5
I have no interest in attending NFL games because of the high quality of the in-home viewing experience, and the hassles (and cold!) of the in person experience. But for the Hoyas - i just love being in the arena. I feel a whole different level of energy and passion in the arena than when I watch on TV. So i drive 2 hours each way from south central PA to DC for each home game (I usually end up missing one or two games a year because of weather or because of my annual winter cold.) But I realize that my zealous attendance is not particularly rational or normal!
There are definitely fewer home games that feel like "big" games than during the "original" big east days. But I don't think our out of conference schedule is any different in quality than it ever was (with the exception of 2013-14, when we had no really strong non-conference home opponents). It is too bad that the football based money grab knocked the Big East back quite a bit in terms of the number of highest level conference opponents. But that is water under the bridge at this point. Hopefully the conference will continue to improve in quality over time, and we'll get a few more programs playing up to the level that makes games against them more attractive.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 4, 2015 20:09:27 GMT -5
This thread caught my interest in that I too was a season ticket holder--and yes, it's a little crazy to hold season tickets here in the Lone Star State (and there are others that do) but it allowed me to see the games I wanted and to offer them to friends and guests when I wasn't there. Good seats, a good donation, steady revenue for GU over 7 or 8 years.
Two years ago, I simply dropped the seats. Not a single call or e-mail asking to renew, an offer to buy in another section, a call why I didn't renew...nothing. To be fair to Steve Alleva's team, ticket renewals are probably outsourced to Monumental Sports and Georgetown is not going to be their #1 priority, much less someone they had to actually call long distance. But it was an opportunity (and marginal revenue) lost.
An hour after I read the thread, I got a phone call from Southern Methodist University asking if I wanted to buy season tickets for Mustangs football, which is a tough sell under any circumstances, much less a winless home record and a 1-11 season where the coach quit on his own during the season. Three years ago, I had bought tickets as part of a upper deck mini-plan and haven't renewed since (Georgetown might have outdrawn the Mustangs at some home games last season because tickets were so easy to get otherwise). Yet I'm still on their list and that's OK: a customer-centric approach.
As time allows I can comment more on the schedule, the arena, and the other issues raised.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 4, 2015 21:16:52 GMT -5
Agreed. You may disagree with the substance of DHall's post, but I don't think he wrote it in a self-aggrandizing manner nor do I think it comes off that way. Fact is, this type of post is in the offseason's wheelhouse. Agreed. I didn't see any "look at me" in the original post. Agree or disagree, but he has some substantive complaints. On the other hand, kchoyas post was one of the more ironic, lacking-in-self-awareness posts that I've seen in a while. All he does is jump on with snarky comments. It's all about looking at how funny/sarcastic/snide I can be. Pot...meet kettle. Please show me a thread I started where I went on and on about how I no longer care about the team enough to continue the level of support I exhibited the past 10-20 years.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Jun 4, 2015 21:19:01 GMT -5
DFW, I DID THE SAME THING.
" [b]I've been a season ticket holder for over 20 years, excluding the last year of Esherick, but I've decided not to renew. If you don't care, stop reading and don't reply. But I thought some people might be interested to know why and whether my decision is an indication of things to come. Also, I am not renewing my season tickets but I will continue to attend some games home and away and make my donation to the program and support the Hoyas. A few notes:
[/i][/b]
I couldn’t get watching the “boys” out of my system and sent to a half a dozen games, two years ago. Last year, I went to the Kansas game and that’s when I blew my top. To see Georgetown University allow the entire team to come out wearing the “I can’t breathe” T-shirts. GU pays III over $3 million a year and he allows this political crap on national TV? Then the team was out-played and out-coached by Kansas. They have seen my last dollar. The GU experience has been replaced by college hockey and women’s volleyball.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Jun 4, 2015 21:43:24 GMT -5
DFW, I DID THE SAME THING. " [b ]I've been a season ticket holder for over 20 years, excluding the last year of Esherick, but I've decided not to renew. If you don't care, stop reading and don't reply. But I thought some people might be interested to know why and whether my decision is an indication of things to come. Also, I am not renewing my season tickets but I will continue to attend some games home and away and make my donation to the program and support the Hoyas. A few notes:
[/i][/b] I couldn’t get watching the “boys” out of my system and sent to a half a dozen games, two years ago. Last year, I went to the Kansas game and that’s when I blew my top. To see Georgetown University allow the entire team to come out wearing the “I can’t breathe” T-shirts. GU pays III over $3 million a year and he allows this political crap on national TV? Then the team was out-played and out-coached by Kansas. They have seen my last dollar. The GU experience has been replaced by college hockey and women’s volleyball.[/quote] You have issues with the Georgetown Hoyas being political? Then what did you think of Pops? I mean...this is nothing new. And let's be real here...it's a t-shirt. College students have political opinions. So what. I'd rather our students and players express themselves and be engaged in the world around them, even if I don't agree, then to just be mindless basketball players for our enjoyment. Those guys can go play for Syracuse. I'll take our t-shirt wearing' players any day.
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