This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Apr 30, 2015 7:48:46 GMT -5
(Errin Burnett's interview with Baltimore city councilman Carl Stoke)
(CNN's Ashleigh Banfield confronts Baltimore city councilman Carl Stoke over the use of the "N" word)
Due to discussions on HLN, Fox News, and CNN (sparked by Upfront with Errin Burnett's interview with Baltimore city councilman Carl Stoke)s , it appears the word thug has become racialized by and is now substituted for the "N" word.
President Barack Obama and Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake have both come under criticism as African-Americans for using the term "thug".
Also apparently on social media sites like youtube, facebook, and twitter the "N" word and thug have now become interchangeable.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 30, 2015 8:57:31 GMT -5
To quote Felonious Munk, "The N word was a narcotic to racists. If the N word is like heroin, then Thug is like Oxycontin. You can get the same exhilaration, but one you can use in public."
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 30, 2015 9:36:11 GMT -5
To quote Felonious Munk, "The N word was a narcotic to racists. If the N word is like heroin, then Thug is like Oxycontin. You can get the same exhilaration, but one you can use in public." So is it racist to use? Is it something that African-Americans can say, but no one else can (like Obama did yesterday)? Can I use it to refer to non-African-Americans? Additionally, what is an allowed term for folks that choose to loot and riot? I'd like to be able to describe them as pejoratively as possible.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 30, 2015 9:56:43 GMT -5
Yeah, look, I understand the "N-word" thing, because it's a slang term for the color of a person's skin, meant to be used to demean that person, as if the color cheapens or negates the humanity. That's just wrong. "Thug" is a very different situation -- it is a word that describes the way a person acts, and I'm sorry, I'm not going to stop using words that can be an accurate description because of some new PC rule. Can some people use the word poorly or cheaply? They sure can, but I don't think that takes away the right of anyone else to use a legitimate, longstanding descriptive word. Just as often as it is used in a racially charged sense as a "N-word substitute", it is thrown up as a "dog whistle" word to cast aspersion on those merely using it to describe people acting criminally, to cover up for or somehow keep blame away from those who deserve it. As a thinking adult (and one who appreciates words as well), I will not be told by any group or pontificator what words are acceptable for me to use, since I know exactly what I mean when I use them. I will say, I'm with Tbird -- I think stronger pejorative words should actually be used for looters. All "thugs" usually reminds me of is the guys in striped shirts who would be the minions for the bad guys in the old Batman TV series.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 30, 2015 9:58:38 GMT -5
Hoyainspirit, with all due respect, I can call a hockey player or a mob character on TV a thug without any racial connotation or historical context attached whatsoever. I get the point that the word "thug" it's sometimes used as a dog whistle, but do you really think President Obama or Erin Burnett were dog whistling?
Geraldo Rivera called some guy mugging in front of his camera a "vandal" a few nights ago. It sounded ridiculous and prissy and made me laugh.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Apr 30, 2015 10:09:34 GMT -5
Yes.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 30, 2015 10:43:10 GMT -5
Hoyainspirit, with all due respect, I can call a hockey player or a mob character on TV a thug without any racial connotation or historical context attached whatsoever. I get the point that the word "thug" it's sometimes used as a dog whistle, but do you really think President Obama or Erin Burnett were dog whistling? Geraldo Rivera called some guy mugging in front of his camera a "vandal" a few nights ago. It sounded ridiculous and prissy and made me laugh. You were watching Fox News?
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 30, 2015 11:14:57 GMT -5
I saw the video on Facebook or some other site.
Now that Justified is over, I actually tried to cancel my cable but the double play with phone + internet is just as expensive as the triple play with cable, phone, and internet.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Apr 30, 2015 11:15:46 GMT -5
Hoyainspirit, with all due respect, I can call a hockey player or a mob character on TV a thug without any racial connotation or historical context attached whatsoever. I get the point that the word "thug" it's sometimes used as a dog whistle, but do you really think President Obama or Erin Burnett were dog whistling? Geraldo Rivera called some guy mugging in front of his camera a "vandal" a few nights ago. It sounded ridiculous and prissy and made me laugh. Yes, I always thought Guido from the Mafia could be called a thug.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Apr 30, 2015 11:15:52 GMT -5
Thug has a serious racial connotation. It may not exclusively be used in a racial context but far too often it is.
Try this the next time someone is talking about a "thug" ask if the person they are describing is black.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 30, 2015 11:38:38 GMT -5
Thug has a serious racial connotation. It may not exclusively be used in a racial context but far too often it is. Try this the next time someone is talking about a "thug" ask if the person they are describing is black. Ok. So should I have a problem with Obama using it? He was, I believe, describing blacks. I know I'd have a problem with him using the N-word. Should I feel the same way about his use of the word "thug"?
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Apr 30, 2015 13:06:18 GMT -5
Thug has a serious racial connotation. It may not exclusively be used in a racial context but far too often it is. Try this the next time someone is talking about a "thug" ask if the person they are describing is black. Ok. So should I have a problem with Obama using it? He was, I believe, describing blacks. I know I'd have a problem with him using the N-word. Should I feel the same way about his use of the word "thug"? You can't equate thug with the n word. Just the fact we calling it the n word explains the extent of its power. You can however monitor the use of the word thug and see if the speaker is using it as a replacement for the N word. Last year deadspin did a comparison on the language used to describe black athletes vs white athletes and there were significant differences in languages choices so while a word itself isn't racial it can become used as coded language. In Obama's case I don't think it was coded language and I wouldn't say when whites use it to describe blacks it's always coded language. That being said much of its use on the news and in other contexts recently has a negative racial undertone. Here is a link to the deadspin article deadspin.com/which-words-are-used-to-describe-white-and-black-nfl-pr-1573683214
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blueeagle
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Post by blueeagle on Apr 30, 2015 15:21:35 GMT -5
Were the 80's Hoyas referred to as thugs? Were the Bad Boy Pistons, Bill Laimbeer being the worst of the bunch, referred to as thugs?
Hooligans! That's it! Leave it to the British to phrase things just so. Are there thugs in hockey? Is that where we got Black Russian? Bad drink, by the way.
You hear what you want to hear. I do not have extra-sensory perception or telepathic abilities. I suppose some people think they do.
This is not the point of what has happened in Baltimore. Do not get sucked in to this pointless non-story.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 30, 2015 18:18:22 GMT -5
Due to discussions on HLN, Fox News, and CNN (sparked by Upfront with Errin Burnett's interview with Baltimore city councilman Carl Stoke)s , it appears the word thug has become racialized by and is now substituted for the "N" word. In my opinion after watching the video you linked, there is nothing whatsoever to support your thesis. Stokes was not equating the two words. He was making the point that these young men who were rioting, were their (the community's) children. Frustrated, angry, violent - yes. But if we are going to try to heal the community, lets not start that process by using negative, derogatory words such as "thugs". At no time did anyone suggest the word "thug" applies only to African Americans nor that it is now a more acceptable term than and a substitute for the "N" word.
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Apr 30, 2015 18:30:17 GMT -5
Wait...when did the word thug become racial? Was this an overnight thing or a sign of becoming an old fart?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 30, 2015 18:39:59 GMT -5
Thug has been pretty racial ever since I've been alive. No, it's not absolute in any sense, but there's definitely a racial angle in the sense that it gets used more for black people doing the same actions as white people.
Is this really a debate? Georgetown played rough in the 80s and they were thugs. Laettner played the same way - and while plenty of people hated him, the language around him was often different for some people.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 30, 2015 19:17:52 GMT -5
My original post spoke of racists who use the word thug. I knew most of you would miss that! Thought it was a good way to generate discussion and get a laugh. I don't think anyone who posts here and uses the word thug is a racist (at least, I hope not), but the word's use has been co-opted and devolved to now include racist undertones.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 30, 2015 20:35:30 GMT -5
Thug has been pretty racial ever since I've been alive. No, it's not absolute in any sense, but there's definitely a racial angle in the sense that it gets used more for black people doing the same actions as white people. Is this really a debate? Georgetown played rough in the 80s and they were thugs. Laettner played the same way - and while plenty of people hated him, the language around him was often different for some people. Yes, the language around Laettner generally was homophobic, rather than "thuggish". I'm not sure that's a super argument for double standard.
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blueeagle
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Post by blueeagle on Apr 30, 2015 21:12:37 GMT -5
Thug life. Discuss.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 30, 2015 21:27:21 GMT -5
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