dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Apr 8, 2015 21:04:24 GMT -5
Kind of hard to say that a guy that hit fewer than 25% of his threes can shoot the three, isn't it? He can obviously improve, but his 3 point percentage was ugly this past year. I can respect that. However, I am just basing that on all of the comments on Peak coming out of high school where it was stated that in several games he showed off his entire arsenal of shots. There were several games where he scored 38 plus and basically carried his team on his back. Granted that's high school against lesser opponents, but still a guy does not consistently wrack up those kinds of numbers by not being able to hit the three. To be honest with you, I think a lot of it boils down to confidence. I think you will see Peak the scoring from all over the court machine that he is next year. The guy really is a natural scorer, as JT3 has pointed out. As a matter of fact, Coach has compared him to Jeff Green in that respect. I agree. I think that was caused by an adjustment to college. The guy can shoot, not JW shoot but he can shoot. But he needs to be motivated. He was too passive this year.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Apr 8, 2015 21:07:12 GMT -5
I'd rather see the staff go with Tre and bring in an unsigned 2015 kid to be honest.. Bringing in Collins & playing a 3 guard line-up with DSR, Peak & Collins will prevent Tre from getting the experience he'll need to be the lead guy in 2016.. Imo Collins isn't head & shoulders above Tre anyway so why bother? If Collins were a high percentage 3pt kid like Smith or Lewis or if he were coming in to play 12+ minutes in a back-up role, I wouldn't like it much but would deal with it.. But a pass, pass, pass first pg that can't shoot doesn't do it for me in JT3's system.. Collin's assist #'s are good but not only doesn't he shoot it well from 3, he doesn't shoot period.. He took 206 shots in 1084 minutes of play this past season, his lack of shooting results in a lack of FT's too, he took 56 all year.. Last season Markel avg'd 4.1 assists per game on a team that had one consistent shooter in DSR, he did this while taking over 400 shots & getting 150+ Ft attempts.. Why is Collins 5.2apg total so impressive? True but III has intimated a ton the last few years that the system is going to be tweaked. Curious to see how a pass-first guard (finally!) would do with III
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lda05816
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 606
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Post by lda05816 on Apr 8, 2015 21:07:43 GMT -5
I understand the complaints about him not being able to shoot but I think the spacing issues due to lack of shooters won't be as much of an issue without Josh. Josh clogged the lane a lot and when teams sagged off, it was tough to get him the ball. The offense this year won't have a 5 who is clogging the lane as much. Govan, Hayes and possibly Derrickson in a really small lineup will be able to play a little more away from the basket and provide space for Collins to penetrate.
If Peak can become respectable from 3, a lineup of Collins DSR Peak Copeland and whoever at 5 could be very good offensively.
For those who are worried about Tre's playing time if Collins commits, what happens if one of the 3 guards gets injured? Imo there is no downside in taking him unless it prevents a kid like Lee or possibly Williams from coming.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,812
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 8, 2015 21:09:01 GMT -5
I'd rather see the staff go with Tre and bring in an unsigned 2015 kid to be honest.. Bringing in Collins & playing a 3 guard line-up with DSR, Peak & Collins will prevent Tre from getting the experience he'll need to be the lead guy in 2016.. Imo Collins isn't head & shoulders above Tre anyway so why bother? If Collins were a high percentage 3pt kid like Smith or Lewis or if he were coming in to play 12+ minutes in a back-up role, I wouldn't like it much but would deal with it.. But a pass, pass, pass first pg that can't shoot doesn't do it for me in JT3's system.. Collin's assist #'s are good but not only doesn't he shoot it well from 3, he doesn't shoot period.. He took 206 shots in 1084 minutes of play this past season, his lack of shooting results in a lack of FT's too, he took 56 all year.. Last season Markel avg'd 4.1 assists per game on a team that had one consistent shooter in DSR, he did this while taking over 400 shots & getting 150+ Ft attempts.. Why is Collins 5.2apg total so impressive? I'm with Etomicb on this one. I know most see no down side but Tre development could be delayed. The one positive of DSR declaring was it would have forced the freshmen to sink or swim. Now lets hope that the freshmen/sophs step up and don't wait for DSR to do everything.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Apr 8, 2015 21:14:08 GMT -5
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wnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 497
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Post by wnyhoya on Apr 8, 2015 21:22:49 GMT -5
Want this kid. We can't be picky people. Be real we aren't getting Lee. I haven't heard anything on Smith. Yes, he can't shoot but we need guards and this kid fills a need. We just spent the past week talking about how badly we need guards and we have a shot at a decent one and people start saying "pass on him and shoot for better." That's been our recruiting strategy with guards the last couple years. We swing and miss on the top dogs and then we get left with nothing. We need to take this kid if he wants to come. Can't gamble in this situation when we are close to being really good next year. If Tre or DSR is hurt our entire season hangs in the balance and could go to waste. We need depth, he checks that box and although he can't shoot we've always wanted a guard who can get in the lane and create for someone when the shot clock is winding down. This kid can do that. We should know by now not to be greedy
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,123
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 8, 2015 21:30:09 GMT -5
There are better options. I want to explore those first before settling on Collins. I do not want to bring in Collins and take away minutes from Tre. Campbell needs to play 25 minutes and if DSR plays 33 minutes then that only leaves 22 minutes for Collins and whoever else. I just remember watching Big East games and teams playing 4 feet off the guy because he can't shoot from outside. If he is fine with 15 minutes then that is fine by me but no more. I get this - but on the other hand, how many guys have we lost because we put them on the back burner while "exploring other options"? Can be a dangerous game to play. Not a fan of determining PT in advance like that. Bring in as many guys as the scholarship will allow and the best players get the most minutes. If Campbell outplays Collins he gets the bulk of the minutes and Collins settles into a backup role. If Collins outplays Campbell, then he gets more minutes and Tre serves another year coming off the bench before taking the reigns. Win/win situation for us. Next year is a real opportunity for us to make a run at winning the conference and advancing deep in the tournament, I'm not willing to hamper that at all because "Campbell needs to play 25 minutes." Bring in as many good players as you can and the minutes will be determined by who produces. Just goes to show you can't please everyone. So many Hoya fans have spent the last week after the DSR announcement complaining about "How could JT3 let the guard situation get this dire???" Then DSR comes back and suddenly some are ready to pass on a legit point guard who can contribute for 1 year? 3 guard rotations have worked out decently well for us in the past when we've had sufficient frontcourt talent (ie. Wallace/Cook/Sapp in 2006 or Wallace/Sapp/Rivers in 2007) but it's a very risky proposition, especially when all 3 aren't at least good enough ballhandlers to be considered a combo guard (which I'd say is the case now, as DSR can be called a combo but is not a natural at point, and Peak is more of a swingman than a combo guard). What happens if (knock on wood) Tre Campbell suffers a serious injury and misses a chunk of the season. Do we play DSR at point guard for 40 minutes a game every game? Do we try to make Peak or White--2 guys who are listed as Forwards by the school--into our primary ballhandler for stretches? Hard to see any way that that goes well.... Rotating Campbell/DSR/Peak a the guard spots is probably enough if all 3 are healthy and on the court every single game, but there's a pretty decent chance that at some point one of them has an injury or some kind of off-the-court issue that keeps them out of the lineup. Having a veteran ballhandler to call on in that situation would be terrific, and he basically has no impact on the scholarship situation. If Collins ends up being more than that for us, all the better.
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 8, 2015 21:43:07 GMT -5
Man, Collins has that one move really down pat -- instead of posting up (which he can't do due to height), he turns a quick corner on a defender to get by him and then moves quickly laterally so the defender is directly behind his back. I've seen guys put players on their hip before, but he puts them right on his back. That has to be a really frustrating thing to guard, and that video shows that he does it a lot. Great way to open up the lane or give space for the shorter shot (especially when you consider he's not a great long-range shooter). I don't have much of an opinion either way on his coming to GU, but that move is very crafty and shows he is very aware of what he can and can't do, and has worked on maximizing what he can.
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Post by daymondmyles on Apr 8, 2015 21:57:23 GMT -5
3 things:
1. Having him here could be great for Tre's development. Tre would get to practice against and learn from a good veteran point guard. We don't have that on the roster right now unlike in the past when JWall was there to hand off to Wright who was there to hand off to Markel.
2. Seeing him dribble all through Cuse's zone makes me want him more.
3. Man, Stan Heath's offense is terrible.
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Post by daymondmyles on Apr 8, 2015 22:00:08 GMT -5
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 8, 2015 22:02:40 GMT -5
The guy is a floor general the likes we have not seen since Jon Wallace. Love him! Folks, listen, not only will this guy fit into our system, he will thrive in it. Not only that, but he is clearly a ball distributer, who likes to get everyone involved.
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 8, 2015 22:06:41 GMT -5
3 things: 1. Having him here could be great for Tre's development. Tre would get to practice against and learn from a good veteran point guard. We don't have that on the roster right now unlike in the past when JWall was there to hand off to Wright who was there to hand off to Markel. 2. Seeing him dribble all through Cuse's zone makes me want him more. 3. Man, Stan Heath's offense is terrible. Generally dribbling through a zone isn't a great idea -- you should try to pass it to the seams by the foul line quickly, etc -- but this kid really knows how to get to those spots in the zone using the dribble guys usually have to pass it into. Very creative. If nothing else, he could provide a change of pace with those skills, and I love what JT3 is doing right now with talented depth. I would LOVE to get back to the JT Jr mold, where the second team was almost as scary as the starters, and the players in that second unit really prided themselves on it. Adding another quality guard would go a long way toward making substitutions a lot more than "breathers for the starters".
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 8, 2015 22:13:00 GMT -5
Maybe we can convince him to go on to grad school.
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 8, 2015 22:17:13 GMT -5
OK, after watching more clips and reading those articles, i've changed my "no opinion" on him -- I'd be very happy for the Hoyas to get this guy. Seems like the perfect "coach on the floor" kind of guy to have around for a year to help the younger guys along and teach them a few tricks. Plus, if we were to land one of the other short, quick PGs we are targeting, the offense might be already adapted to it, with a year of Collins in the mix. Tre and this guy would make for some really solid PG talent, distributing to some very talented longer guys. Hope it happens!
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 8, 2015 22:20:51 GMT -5
Kind of hard to say that a guy that hit fewer than 25% of his threes can shoot the three, isn't it? He can obviously improve, but his 3 point percentage was ugly this past year. I can respect that. However, I am just basing that on all of the comments on Peak coming out of high school where it was stated that in several games he showed off his entire arsenal of shots. There were several games where he scored 38 plus and basically carried his team on his back. Granted that's high school against lesser opponents, but still a guy does not consistently wrack up those kinds of numbers by not being able to hit the three. To be honest with you, I think a lot of it boils down to confidence. I think you will see Peak the scoring from all over the court machine that he is next year. The guy really is a natural scorer, as JT3 has pointed out. As a matter of fact, Coach has compared him to Jeff Green in that respect. Could be the one foot difference in the 3pt line between college and high school. Might take some time to adjust to it. Otto had the same problem. Went from .226 to .422 his sophomore year.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 8, 2015 22:25:17 GMT -5
Man, Collins has that one move really down pat -- instead of posting up (which he can't do due to height), he turns a quick corner on a defender to get by him and then moves quickly laterally so the defender is directly behind his back. I've seen guys put players on their hip before, but he puts them right on his back. That has to be a really frustrating thing to guard, and that video shows that he does it a lot. Great way to open up the lane or give space for the shorter shot (especially when you consider he's not a great long-range shooter). I don't have much of an opinion either way on his coming to GU, but that move is very crafty and shows he is very aware of what he can and can't do, and has worked on maximizing what he can. So he was in the Big East back when USF was here. I guess we must have played him a couple times and he had a chance to visit the city and be cordial with JTIII. I'm not sure if we land him but he does have some familiarity with the school and area.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,746
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Post by blueandgray on Apr 8, 2015 22:26:34 GMT -5
As another poster mentioned, feels like a two horse race here. Pre-DSR returning I'd say we were the frontrunners. Now may be a different story. Like I said however, the staff loves him and the kid would be running the show. Kid would get big minutes.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 8, 2015 22:36:43 GMT -5
As another poster mentioned, feels like a two horse race here. Pre-DSR returning I'd say we were the frontrunners. Now may be a different story. Like I said however, the staff loves him and the kid would be running the show. Kid would get big minutes. Yeah, I think we are 3rd choice since DSR is back. He's from Houston and Baylor is home and Rick Barnes from Texas is at Tennessee so I'm sure there's a stronger and longer connection and relationship there. It would be great to have him but the huge minute opportunity when DSR left was probably a big enticement to come here.
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by kchoya on Apr 8, 2015 22:39:15 GMT -5
The guy is a floor general the likes we have not seen since Jon Wallace. Love him! Folks, listen, not only will this guy fit into our system, he will thrive in it. Not only that, but he is clearly a ball distributer, who likes to get everyone involved. Chris Wright and Markel Starks say hello.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Apr 8, 2015 22:42:40 GMT -5
This sounds like a terrific situation and good luck to the staff on recruiting Collins.
For the few that would prefer an unranked 2015 recruit, keep in mind that this would take away one of the few open scholarships for 2016. Plus, with DSR coming back next season is the year to go all in on this team. Tre is great and I want to see him develop, but I would also hate to pass up on Collins who would definitely make this team better next year.
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