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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 2, 2015 13:10:03 GMT -5
sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coachI was a little bit surprised by this. At 2.8 million, this makes JTIII the highest paid of all non-BCS schools followed closely by Wright. I like JTIII, but frankly I would expect more results on the recruiting trail and in the post season for this sort of outlay. This accounts for most of the FOX TV deal money and you still have all of the expenses of running the program. At this pay grade, I would expect to see results as soon as the hoops practice facility is completed because there aren't really any other excuses once that is done. One other note is it is insane these guys make this much at educational institutions. It is obviously the market at work but man, it is hard to fathom.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 2, 2015 13:26:55 GMT -5
Think of JT III's deal like a baseball contract. He is getting paid for past deeds, to wit the 2007 Final Four and the back to back titles of 2007 and 2008.
Like MLB, most guys are not earning the last few years of their deal. They are being compensated for being underpaid early on.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 2, 2015 13:30:18 GMT -5
sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coachI was a little bit surprised by this. At 2.8 million, this makes JTIII the highest paid of all non-BCS schools followed closely by Wright. I like JTIII, but frankly I would expect more results on the recruiting trail and in the post season for this sort of outlay. This accounts for most of the FOX TV deal money and you still have all of the expenses of running the program. At this pay grade, I would expect to see results as soon as the hoops practice facility is completed because there aren't really any other excuses once that is done. One other note is it is insane these guys make this much at educational institutions. It is obviously the market at work but man, it is hard to fathom. I mean, this all comes back to whether your think the tournament results are truly systematic. I will update my general program results after the tourney is over, but Georgetown under III ranks 9th in average Pomeroy rating and close by in any number of complete season evaluations. So 11th in salary isn't that off, if it is off at all. Of course, that's if you think that his struggles in the tourney are largely or mostly not driven by him. The list above him is largely a group of highly successful coaches (cough, Crean), but look immediately behind III and it's clear that he's nowhere near the most overpaid guy. Matt Painter? Mark Turgeon? Mike Anderson? MIKE ANDERSON? It's also worth noting that the "other compensation" is nowhere near accurate, and I find it hard to believe Roy Williams doesn't have a bunch of camps and speaking engagements purchased by boosters that catapults him up the lists.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 2, 2015 13:34:28 GMT -5
sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coachI was a little bit surprised by this. At 2.8 million, this makes JTIII the highest paid of all non-BCS schools followed closely by Wright. I like JTIII, but frankly I would expect more results on the recruiting trail and in the post season for this sort of outlay. This accounts for most of the FOX TV deal money and you still have all of the expenses of running the program. At this pay grade, I would expect to see results as soon as the hoops practice facility is completed because there aren't really any other excuses once that is done. One other note is it is insane these guys make this much at educational institutions. It is obviously the market at work but man, it is hard to fathom. why should this be a surprise. Shaka Smart has been to one final four with Anthony Grants players and is about to get 3 million a year from Texas.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 2, 2015 13:41:57 GMT -5
Couldn't you say JTIII made one final four with Esherick's players (I don't believe that but it is worth noting)? It is easy to provide excuses. The junior & rising senior classes are huge misses on the recruiting front outside of DSR. That talent evaluation falls on the assistants and coach.
I think three learned his lesson and now that Brennan & Hunter have moved on, we have Broadus & Hardy turning up the types of guys that we need and I think the last two classes are winners and that needs to continue. One final four and a lot of early outs is what people care about, just look at Izzo and the praise (correctly) heaped on him this week. I am just saying that we clearly are competing with the big budget football schools so there shouldn't be an excuse for us not getting the players we need if we are putting in that type of money.
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b52legend
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Post by b52legend on Apr 2, 2015 13:51:40 GMT -5
sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coachI was a little bit surprised by this. At 2.8 million, this makes JTIII the highest paid of all non-BCS schools followed closely by Wright. I like JTIII, but frankly I would expect more results on the recruiting trail and in the post season for this sort of outlay. This accounts for most of the FOX TV deal money and you still have all of the expenses of running the program. At this pay grade, I would expect to see results as soon as the hoops practice facility is completed because there aren't really any other excuses once that is done. One other note is it is insane these guys make this much at educational institutions. It is obviously the market at work but man, it is hard to fathom. I mean, this all comes back to whether your think the tournament results are truly systematic. I will update my general program results after the tourney is over, but Georgetown under III ranks 9th in average Pomeroy rating and close by in any number of complete season evaluations. So 11th in salary isn't that off, if it is off at all. Of course, that's if you think that his struggles in the tourney are largely or mostly not driven by him. The list above him is largely a group of highly successful coaches (cough, Crean), but look immediately behind III and it's clear that he's nowhere near the most overpaid guy. Matt Painter? Mark Turgeon? Mike Anderson? MIKE ANDERSON? It's also worth noting that the "other compensation" is nowhere near accurate, and I find it hard to believe Roy Williams doesn't have a bunch of camps and speaking engagements purchased by boosters that catapults him up the lists. Why the Mike Anderson hate? He won a national title at Arkansas as an assistant, so there is a lot of love within the state and at the program for him, not unlike our affinity for the Thompson name. He turned UAB into a relevant program (3 straight NCAA tournaments, sweet 16) after they were a disaster; he got Missouri to the Elite 8 and after Quinn Snyder tried to destroy the program, and then left the team loaded with talent; and he just got Arkansas an NCAA win after a 10 year drought and has multiple top 100 recruits coming in next year. Seems to me like a guy who has a pretty good track record of winning at places that others have struggled.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 2, 2015 14:07:19 GMT -5
Couldn't you say JTIII made one final four with Esherick's players (I don't believe that but it is worth noting)? It is easy to provide excuses. The junior & rising senior classes are huge misses on the recruiting front outside of money. You could say that and it would still be worth 3 mil a year. Same could be said for Greg Marshall. 1 final four and he's at 3 million. That's basically the going rate.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Apr 2, 2015 14:25:53 GMT -5
sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coachI was a little bit surprised by this. At 2.8 million, this makes JTIII the highest paid of all non-BCS schools followed closely by Wright. I like JTIII, but frankly I would expect more results on the recruiting trail and in the post season for this sort of outlay. This accounts for most of the FOX TV deal money and you still have all of the expenses of running the program. At this pay grade, I would expect to see results as soon as the hoops practice facility is completed because there aren't really any other excuses once that is done. One other note is it is insane these guys make this much at educational institutions. It is obviously the market at work but man, it is hard to fathom. why should this be a surprise. Shaka Smart has been to one final four with Anthony Grants players and is about to get 3 million a year from Texas. The insane amounts of money generated by college basketball (and at other schools, college football) has to flow somewhere. You can't pay the players, so who are you going to pay?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 2, 2015 14:42:40 GMT -5
sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coachI was a little bit surprised by this. At 2.8 million, this makes JTIII the highest paid of all non-BCS schools followed closely by Wright. I like JTIII, but frankly I would expect more results on the recruiting trail and in the post season for this sort of outlay. This accounts for most of the FOX TV deal money and you still have all of the expenses of running the program. JT3 made similar amounts prior to the Fox deal, so it's not like the extra new money is specifically being allocated toward him. I think JT3 is in the unique position of being more valuable to Georgetown (and Georgetown more valuable to him) than any other university would be. The fact that he's a Thompson at Georgetown increases his value. I highly doubt the administration would pay any other coach a similar salary. Even when he first started at Georgetown, JT3 made a lot less money.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 2, 2015 14:55:58 GMT -5
sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coachI was a little bit surprised by this. At 2.8 million, this makes JTIII the highest paid of all non-BCS schools followed closely by Wright. I like JTIII, but frankly I would expect more results on the recruiting trail and in the post season for this sort of outlay. This accounts for most of the FOX TV deal money and you still have all of the expenses of running the program. JT3 made similar amounts prior to the Fox deal, so it's not like the extra new money is specifically being allocated toward him. I think JT3 is in the unique position of being more valuable to Georgetown (and Georgetown more valuable to him) than any other university would be. The fact that he's a Thompson at Georgetown increases his value. I highly doubt the administration would pay any other coach a similar salary. Even when he first started at Georgetown, JT3 made a lot less money. I would guess some of the money was a good faith payment by the university that it was committed to basketball and getting the practice facility built.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 2, 2015 14:56:16 GMT -5
why should this be a surprise. Shaka Smart has been to one final four with Anthony Grants players and is about to get 3 million a year from Texas. The insane amounts of money generated by college basketball (and at other schools, college football) has to flow somewhere. You can't pay the players, so who are you going to pay? A chunk of it goes to fan message board administrators and moderators.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 2, 2015 15:01:18 GMT -5
As much as I would like to think otherwise, III is overpaid. I am happy we recovered from last season's absence from the NCAAs, but not having a single significant rising Junior or Senior is inexcusable. That just should not happen unless you are bringing in MCD AAs every year like UK, Duke, etc.
It is also hard to accept Gtown will likely not be a Top 25 team over a 3 season span - 13/14, 14/15 and most likely 15/16. I am hoping he can work some coaching magic next season and get this team to play well together, but at this point there is no reason to assume they will be better than this past season. III did take steps in overhauling his staff a fea years back, but another borderline relevant season will not help.
Boy, that 2016/2017 season could be the most important one in III's tenure. Is he going to be considered a top coach, or not? That season will likely determine the story, coming an exact 10 years after the Final Four run.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 2, 2015 15:07:21 GMT -5
As much as I would like to think otherwise, III is overpaid. I am happy we recovered from last season's absence from the NCAAs, but not having a single significant rising Junior or Senior is inexcusable. That just should not happen unless you are bringing in MCD AAs every year like UK, Duke, etc. It is also hard to accept Gtown will likely not be a Top 25 team over a 3 season span - 13/14, 14/15 and most likely 15/16. I am hoping he can work some coaching magic next season and get this team to play well together, but at this point there is no reason to assume they will be better than this past season. III did take steps in overhauling his staff a fea years back, but another borderline relevant season will not help. Boy, that 2016/2017 season could be the most important one in III's tenure. Is he going to be considered a top coach, or not? That season will likely determine the story, coming an exact 10 years after the Final Four run. Wait...am I missing something? Didn't we finish the season ranked in the top 25 this year?
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 2, 2015 15:14:50 GMT -5
As much as I would like to think otherwise, III is overpaid. I am happy we recovered from last season's absence from the NCAAs, but not having a single significant rising Junior or Senior is inexcusable. That just should not happen unless you are bringing in MCD AAs every year like UK, Duke, etc. It is also hard to accept Gtown will likely not be a Top 25 team over a 3 season span - 13/14, 14/15 and most likely 15/16. I am hoping he can work some coaching magic next season and get this team to play well together, but at this point there is no reason to assume they will be better than this past season. III did take steps in overhauling his staff a fea years back, but another borderline relevant season will not help. Boy, that 2016/2017 season could be the most important one in III's tenure. Is he going to be considered a top coach, or not? That season will likely determine the story, coming an exact 10 years after the Final Four run. Wait...am I missing something? Didn't we finish the season ranked in the top 25 this year? shhh. . . That wouldn't fit the anti JTIII narrative. *ap 22, coaches 24
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 2, 2015 15:19:53 GMT -5
Wait...am I missing something? Didn't we finish the season ranked in the top 25 this year? shhh. . . That wouldn't fit the anti JTIII narrative. *ap 22, coaches 24 It's bad enough when he's getting killed for losing in the NCAA, now people are erasing his regular season accomplishments from history. I can't wait for people to say...damn it, when will he ever earn a top 4 seed!?!?!? or win the regular season big east title?!?!?!
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 2, 2015 15:33:58 GMT -5
For the record, I am in the pro, but frustrated, JTIII camp. Not sure where NCHoya was coming from on that one. Up until last year, I think we had sneaked into the AP top 10 every year for a long stint due to early season success. My point is for 2.8 million, you should be in the tourney just about every year (CHECK), you should be competing for conference titles most years (CHECK), you should consistently pull in top recruits (MEH, not consistent) and you should make the second weekend of the tourney half the time you are there (NO BUENO).
I think JTIII is on a path of fixing recruiting and hopefully that will fix the tourney.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Apr 2, 2015 15:35:48 GMT -5
I used to think JTIII was overpaid...until I saw the rest of that list. Sweet mercy, a third of the field is pulling down 2 bucks a year and that's spotting it about 20 low majors.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 2, 2015 15:45:55 GMT -5
shhh. . . That wouldn't fit the anti JTIII narrative. *ap 22, coaches 24 It's bad enough when he's getting killed for losing in the NCAA, now people are erasing his regular season accomplishments from history. I can't wait for people to say...damn it, when will he ever earn a top 4 seed!?!?!? or win the regular season big east title?!?!?! You guys are kidding right. I am one of the biggest III supporters on this board. But the man is overpaid right now. Like Elvado stated with his baseball analogy, he is being paid for past accomplishments. If you believe we deserved a #4 seed, ok, we can agree to disagree. But then you also have to believe losing to #5 Utah was just another legitimate tourney disappointment for the 6th year in a row. And if you think the team this year was a legit Top 25 team, ok, again we can just disagree. 3 weeks of showing up in the poll over the course of an entire season does not make me view the Hoyas as a Top 25 team. If you think he has performed as the #9 best coach in college basketball over the last 5 seasons or so, OK. But the man has not made a Sweet 16 in 8 seasons and has not exactly been a great recruiter (empty Jr/Sr classes). He is good coach, but #9 implies he is a great coach and I am simply not willing to go there.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 2, 2015 15:47:05 GMT -5
Keep in mind that the list is solely of those coaches whose teams made the NCAA tournament; it doesn't include those highly paid coaches at other institutions who did not make the tourney (i.e,., Oliver Purnell, to pull out a name).
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 2, 2015 15:54:14 GMT -5
It's bad enough when he's getting killed for losing in the NCAA, now people are erasing his regular season accomplishments from history. I can't wait for people to say...damn it, when will he ever earn a top 4 seed!?!?!? or win the regular season big east title?!?!?! You guys are kidding right. I am one of the biggest III supporters on this board. But the man is overpaid right now. Like Elvado stated with his baseball analogy, he is being paid for past accomplishments. If you believe we deserved a #4 seed, ok, we can agree to disagree. But then you also have to believe losing to #5 Utah was just another legitimate tourney disappointment for the 6th year in a row. And if you think the team this year was a legit Top 25 team, ok, again we can just disagree. 3 weeks of showing up in the poll over the course of an entire season does not make me view the Hoyas as a Top 25 team. If you think he has performed as the #9 best coach in college basketball over the last 5 seasons or so, OK. But the man has not made a Sweet 16 in 8 seasons and has not exactly been a great recruiter (empty Jr/Sr classes). He is good coach, but #9 implies he is a great coach and I am simply not willing to go there. So you're not using the objective standard of finishing the season in the top 25 in both of the major polls or the actual seeding awarded by the committee, but how it really should have gone down if all was fair in the universe?
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