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Post by bicentennial on Apr 1, 2015 8:42:05 GMT -5
This is a pretty ridiculous discussion. We won't have a guard recruit who is a 2 star there are always 3 star guards to recruit in the spring. I suspect even William and Allen would be considered at least 2 star caliber and they are walk-ons. Give the staff a little while to fill the recruiting hole before assuming we will have 2 open 2015 spots. As for the depth chart.
PG SG SF PF C Campbell White Peak Copeland Hayes Peak Cameron Derrickson Govan Allen WilliamsJohnson Mourning Agau (Jan.)
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Apr 1, 2015 8:42:51 GMT -5
At least we won't have recruits scared off by a potential lack of minutes ... How old is Harry now? Can he go to his left? Has he committed?
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Apr 1, 2015 8:46:36 GMT -5
Peak and Johnson were already going to be two-guards even with DSR here.
If Peak is going to have a shot at the NBA it will be as a guard not as a forward.
What little I have seen of Johnson on video he plays more like a guard than a forward already.
So all we really need is a back up point guard.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 1, 2015 8:46:41 GMT -5
Thanks DFW and Jake for pulling the numbers. The recruiting posters on this site have noted the backcourt depth issue for over a year and now it has blown up in the staff's face. You can't leverage frontcourt talent with no experience in the backcourt. Pulling rabbits out of the hat last minute on the recruiting trail aren't the habits and formulas of sweet sixteen caliber programs, much less programs with higher aspirations. This falls under the category of poor risk management of a basketball program. Here's the thing: It's hindsight withot even yet being hindsight! We don't know who they're going to get either as a transfer or a late signee. Complain if we come up empty (or do much worse than we would have done had we taken a two or three star guy initially). Regardless and to state the obvious: If you constantly take a two or three star recruit as a hedge against not getting a four or five, you never even have a chance to get a four or five. Oh, and to those saying we never get an elite guard (and my apologies if this has been raised): what about DSR? Wasn't he a top 30 or 40 overall recruit? I know he wasn't top 10 or anything, but it's not unrealistic to think that the staff thinks they can get someone similar to a guy that is currently on the roster and a successful example when they map out recruiting strategies. Every single recruiting situation is different and fact-specific: how good do you feel about your chances of getting five-star guard recruit Mr. _____; how good do you feel about still getting someone for depth purposes late in the game; what do you think of your reasonable returning players. We're simply not Kentucky or Duke -- a two-star guard likely isn't going to sign here knowing that he's being recruited over; and it may be that the staff thinks it can get a two-star type guard late in any given year anyway (through transfer or late signing). We already may have a two-star in Allen. No need to look elsewhere for that.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Apr 1, 2015 8:48:26 GMT -5
After a few minutes in the HT sandbox arguing the educational merits of a degree to those who would suggest otherwise, here's my real concern with DSR's departure: a depth chart which reflects a recruiting strategy that really hurts Georgetown in 2016-17: the lack of guards. I read through that entire thread. Show me one comment that debated the merits of a degree. Not one person suggested he shouldn't get one. That's just ridiculous. Sorry to bring it up and the general snarkiness, but when I open up a thread that I'm interested in and you're still throwing bombs from some other thread, well...that's what you get.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 1, 2015 8:51:23 GMT -5
After a few minutes in the HT sandbox arguing the educational merits of a degree to those who would suggest otherwise, here's my real concern with DSR's departure: a depth chart which reflects a recruiting strategy that really hurts Georgetown in 2016-17: the lack of guards. Sorry to bring it up and the general snarkiness, but when I open up a thread that I'm interested in and you're still throwing bombs from some other thread, well...that's what you get. Duly noted. I'll pass on the incendiary reference.
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Post by bicentennial on Apr 1, 2015 8:57:46 GMT -5
Wasn't done with the depth chart PG Campbell, Peak, Allen SG White, Cameron, Williams SF Peak, Copeland, Johnson PF Copeland, Agau, Mourning, Derrickson C Hayes, Govan, Mourning, Derrickson
We would have no small ball team but I have always hated when we played small ball! I particularly like the following line ups. 1. Campbell, White, Peak, Copeland, Hayes our traditional dribble up the court to break the press! Peak, White, Copeland, Agau, Govan where we don't bother dribbling we just pass the ball over the other teams head and dunk!
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 1, 2015 9:01:58 GMT -5
At least we won't have recruits scared off by a potential lack of minutes ... How old is Harry now? Can he go to his left? Has he committed? He is mostly righty and only 9. He has given an early verbal to Coach Wiese and the soccer team. Class of '24 from HS.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 1, 2015 10:45:57 GMT -5
Wasn't done with the depth chart PG Campbell, Peak, Allen SG White, Cameron, Williams SF Peak, Copeland, Johnson PF Copeland, Agau, Mourning, Derrickson C Hayes, Govan, Mourning, Derrickson We would have no small ball team but I have always hated when we played small ball! I particularly like the following line ups. 1. Campbell, White, Peak, Copeland, Hayes our traditional dribble up the court to break the press! Peak, White, Copeland, Agau, Govan where we don't bother dribbling we just pass the ball over the other teams head and dunk! No way Peak gets many minutes at the 3 unless we have a front-court injury or get a combo guard. As the depth chart sits like now its like this: PG: Campbell, Peak/Allen (splitting the 5-10 min that Tre sits) SG: Peak, Johnson, White/Allen SF: White, Copeland, Johnson PF: Copeland, Derrickson, Agau, Mourning C: Hayes, Govan, Derrickson, Agau Obviously we won't go 12 deep. I don't think Mourning will get much time. Only one of Allen or Williams will get the leftover back court minutes so I only put one in for now. That leaves us with a 10 man rotation which is possible. I won't be surprised if we end up only going 9 often with one of our C prospects needing more development time. Another thing that I don't think will happen but would be nice is Reggie Cameron developing confidence/shot/whatever he needs. I don't think he'll ever have the handles that we will be comfortable with but if he can find his range he will fight for minutes.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 1, 2015 11:20:35 GMT -5
Wasn't done with the depth chart PG Campbell, Peak, Allen SG White, Cameron, Williams SF Peak, Copeland, Johnson PF Copeland, Agau, Mourning, Derrickson C Hayes, Govan, Mourning, Derrickson We would have no small ball team but I have always hated when we played small ball! I particularly like the following line ups. 1. Campbell, White, Peak, Copeland, Hayes our traditional dribble up the court to break the press! Peak, White, Copeland, Agau, Govan where we don't bother dribbling we just pass the ball over the other teams head and dunk! No way Peak gets many minutes at the 3 unless we have a front-court injury or get a combo guard. As the depth chart sits like now its like this: PG: Campbell, Peak/Allen (splitting the 5-10 min that Tre sits) SG: Peak, Johnson, Williams/Allen SF: White, Copeland, Johnson PF: Copeland, Derrickson, Agau, Mourning C: Hayes, Govan, Derrickson, Agau Obviously we won't go 12 deep. I don't think Mourning will get much time. Only one of Williams or Allen will get the leftover back court minutes. That leaves us with a 10 man rotation which is possible. I won't be surprised if we end up only going 9 often with one of our C prospects needing more development time. Another thing that I don't think will happen but would be nice is Reggie Cameron developing confidence/shot/whatever he needs. I don't think he'll ever have the handles that we will be comfortable with but if he can find his range he will fight for minutes. White will get time at shooting guard if the roster stays as is. Derrickson/Agau are likely going to be better players and deserve more time than Johnson next year and moving White to the 2 would free up some time for them at the 4. I have the feeling that Johnson will probably be the odd man out next year, as he seems like the biggest project. Not having seen any of the frosh play, obviously, I'll defer to those who have seen them if they disagree. I'd assume its something like a nine man rotation, looking something like this (with Johnson splitting his 5mpg at SG/SF depending on match-ups, foul trouble, etc). PG: Campbell (35+), Peak/Allen (splitting the time that Tre sits) SG: Peak (30), White (10), Johnson (2.5), Williams/Allen SF: White (20), Copeland (15), Johnson (2.5) PF: Copeland (15), Derrickson (15), Agau (10), Mourning C: Govan (20), Hayes (10), Agau (10), Derrickson That leaves the minutes like this: Campbell--35+ minutes (35-PG) Peak--30+ minutes (30-SG, 0-5-PG) White--30 minutes (20-SF, 10-SG) Copeland--30 minutes (15-PF, 15-SF) Agau--20 minutes (10-PF, 10-C) Govan--20 minutes (20-C) Derrickson--15 minutes (15-PF) Hayes--10 minutes (10-C) Johnson--5 minutes (SF/SG) The center minutes could break differently between Agau, Govan and Hayes. Depending on if Govan can handle more, if Hayes actually can handle 10 minutes, whether Agau can handle position, etc. A graduate transfer combo guard probably gets 25 minutes split between point and shooting guard, with the time coming from Campbell, Peak, White and Johnson.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 1, 2015 11:31:30 GMT -5
White will get time at shooting guard if the roster stays as is. Derrickson/Agau are likely going to be better players and deserve more time than Johnson next year and moving White to the 2 would free up some time for them at the 4. I have the feeling that Johnson will probably be the odd man out next year, as he seems like the biggest project. Not having seen any of the frosh play, obviously, I'll defer to those who have seen them if they disagree. I'd assume its something like a nine man rotation, looking something like this (with Johnson splitting his 5mpg at SG/SF depending on match-ups, foul trouble, etc). PG: Campbell (35+), Peak/Allen (splitting the time that Tre sits) SG: Peak (30), White (10), Johnson (2.5), Williams/Allen SF: White (20), Copeland (15), Johnson (2.5) PF: Copeland (15), Derrickson (15), Agau (10), Mourning C: Govan (20), Hayes (10), Agau (10), Derrickson That leaves the minutes like this: Campbell--35+ minutes (35-PG) Peak--30+ minutes (30-SG, 0-5-PG) White--30 minutes (20-SF, 10-SG) Copeland--30 minutes (15-PF, 15-SF) Agau--20 minutes (10-PF, 10-C) Govan--20 minutes (20-C) Derrickson--15 minutes (15-PF) Hayes--10 minutes (10-C) Johnson--5 minutes (SF/SG) The center minutes could break differently between Agau, Govan and Hayes. Depending on if Govan can handle more, if Hayes actually can handle 10 minutes, whether Agau can handle position, etc. A graduate transfer combo guard probably gets 25 minutes split between point and shooting guard, with the time coming from Campbell, Peak, White and Johnson. I agree with this, I meant to put White in where I put Williams. As far as your minute break-down, I agree completely. Although I think White will stay around 25-30 mpg and same with Peak if we do end up with another guard on the roster. Finally, I'm not sure what to expect from Johnson. On paper he is the biggest project coming in next year but he blew up this year and momentum is quite a thing. Plus he brings in some ball handling skills, which at the moment, is a need.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 1, 2015 13:46:42 GMT -5
Why did this need it's own thread? Couldn't it fit in the 2015/2016 thread?
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 1, 2015 13:54:04 GMT -5
Why did this need it's own thread? Couldn't it fit in the 2015/2016 thread? Because this is the negative, blame staff/JT III 15-16 thread which is different than the other 15/16 Neutral thread.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 8, 2015 10:14:47 GMT -5
White will get time at shooting guard if the roster stays as is. Derrickson/Agau are likely going to be better players and deserve more time than Johnson next year and moving White to the 2 would free up some time for them at the 4. I have the feeling that Johnson will probably be the odd man out next year, as he seems like the biggest project. Not having seen any of the frosh play, obviously, I'll defer to those who have seen them if they disagree. I'd assume its something like a nine man rotation, looking something like this (with Johnson splitting his 5mpg at SG/SF depending on match-ups, foul trouble, etc). PG: Campbell (35+), Peak/Allen (splitting the time that Tre sits) SG: Peak (30), White (10), Johnson (2.5), Williams/Allen SF: White (20), Copeland (15), Johnson (2.5) PF: Copeland (15), Derrickson (15), Agau (10), Mourning C: Govan (20), Hayes (10), Agau (10), Derrickson That leaves the minutes like this: Campbell--35+ minutes (35-PG) Peak--30+ minutes (30-SG, 0-5-PG) White--30 minutes (20-SF, 10-SG) Copeland--30 minutes (15-PF, 15-SF) Agau--20 minutes (10-PF, 10-C) Govan--20 minutes (20-C) Derrickson--15 minutes (15-PF) Hayes--10 minutes (10-C) Johnson--5 minutes (SF/SG) The center minutes could break differently between Agau, Govan and Hayes. Depending on if Govan can handle more, if Hayes actually can handle 10 minutes, whether Agau can handle position, etc. A graduate transfer combo guard probably gets 25 minutes split between point and shooting guard, with the time coming from Campbell, Peak, White and Johnson. With DSR coming back, I think the roster is now the deepest we've ever had, talent-wise. This is the first year I can think of where each player has a capable back-up. Assuming the players develop somewhat like we'd expect, there isn't a single player you'd point to and say "if he gets in foul trouble, we lose" like there is in most years. PG: DSR (20) Campbell (20) SG: Peak (25), DSR (15) White (5), Johnson SF: White (20), Copeland (15), Peak (5), Johnson PF: Copeland (15), Derrickson (15), Agau (10), Mourning C: Govan (20), Hayes (10), Agau (10), Derrickson That leaves the minutes like this: DSR--35 minutes (20-PG, 15 SG) Peak--30 minutes (30-SG, 5-SF) Copeland--30 minutes (15-PF, 15-SF) White--25 minutes (20-SF, 5-SG) Campbell--20 minutes (20-PG) Agau--20 minutes (10-PF, 10-C) Govan--20 minutes (20-C) Derrickson--15 minutes (15-PF) Hayes--10 minutes (10-C) Johnson--spot minutes (SF/SG)
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 8, 2015 10:32:59 GMT -5
I think plugging a freshman center in for 20 minutes is naive but I hope you are right. I also might be the only one, but couldn't we get 25 lbs on Mourning and a jump from him? If he gets stronger, it seems like he could be a capable defender and passer on O.
Of Big east teams that will have prototypical centers, I can only think of Nova with Ochefu. The rest will have power forwards playing 5 or maybe a guy like Chukwu who is skinny. Of the OOC games, MD (Stone), Cuse (Coleman), Duke (plumlee), Wisconsin (no one)...Not exactly a murder's row. I think we just might get away with the bigs we have by playing Hayes & Govan some but also going with three guys who can all play the 3/4 like Copeland, White, Agau, Derrickson.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Apr 8, 2015 10:37:22 GMT -5
In today's era of college basketball, I'm not sure how plugging an All-American center into the lineup for 20 minutes as a freshman can be considered naive, especially one as talented as Govan.
Freshmen contribute. Remember the freshman center that dominated us in the second round of the NCAA Tournament?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 8, 2015 10:45:15 GMT -5
I think that's a strong statement at center. I like Jessie, but he's not a certain positive at center, let alone pegging Hayes and Agau as capable back-ups. Can they all be? Sure. But it's the position of concern for next year.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 8, 2015 10:57:02 GMT -5
I think that's a strong statement at center. I like Jessie, but he's not a certain positive at center, let alone pegging Hayes and Agau as capable back-ups. Can they all be? Sure. But it's the position of concern for next year. I agree that it's a position of concern, but I think part of that is mitigated by the fact that we are losing: (1) One center with great offensive skill (scoring near the basket), but who could not stay on the floor for any prolonged period. He also wasn't great defensively. (2) A forward playing center who could not finish shots and was extremely inefficient, yet he could defend well. If we were losing a total package (like Greg Monroe, or even Sims as a senior), I might be more concerned, but I do not think the bar is all that high for the incoming freshman (and Agau) to bring a solid contribution in the front court. While I admit there are tons of question marks, I actually feel good about the front court. It will certainly be very different than what we've had the last 2-3 years. Really, what I am looking for out of Govan, Hayes, Agau, and Derrickson (and Mourning, if he plays): (1) Playing adequate defense that improves throughout the season. (2) Not fouling excessively. (3) Rebounding (4) Some offense. If we get all that, I think we are in no worse shape than last year overall.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 8, 2015 10:57:57 GMT -5
I didn't know that Govan was an all-american? I thought he was a consensus top 60 player, but he isn't coming with the Okafor, Anthony-Towns or even Alexander/Turner type hype. I hope I am wrong and I certainly think he can be productive, but I could also see these guys getting schooled by some 6'7 mid-major center or Chrabascz who will take them outside or do some up & under moves. My point is I think we will see more teams playing SF/PF at center then teams with true scoring threats at Center.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 8, 2015 11:11:41 GMT -5
I think that's a strong statement at center. I like Jessie, but he's not a certain positive at center, let alone pegging Hayes and Agau as capable back-ups. Can they all be? Sure. But it's the position of concern for next year. That's true. Probably overstating the case with our centers next year, but then again, there's so much talent everywhere else on the roster that a platoon that produced at a comparable level to the 2013 Hopkins & Moses platoon would be enough to have a really successful season. And it seems unlikely that Govan getting in foul trouble would cause us to lose. Govan/Hayes/Agau isn't going to be as important as Starks was in 2013, Wright was in 2011 or Roy was in 2008. And I don't think its unreasonable to expect Govan to play 20 minutes next year, since we just had 4 freshman of comparable talents/rankings each average 15-25 minutes last year.
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