rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 27, 2015 8:13:49 GMT -5
Taking a game fr the end of his soph season to compare what the showed as a frosh? How does that make sense? Because he didn’t all of a sudden have a great motor his Soph season he had a Great motor from day one.. Then pick the first game he played in....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 11:09:25 GMT -5
Because he didn’t all of a sudden have a great motor his Soph season he had a Great motor from day one.. Then pick the first game he played in.... I don’t need to watch his 1st game to be reminded of how good he was.. Your comments remind me of why I don’t engage you on this board. You need to relax man, you’re way to confrontational over stupid ish...
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 27, 2015 11:47:51 GMT -5
Then pick the first game he played in.... I don’t need to watch his 1st game to be reminded of how good he was.. Your comments remind me of why I don’t engage you on this board. You need to relax man, you’re way to confrontational over stupid ish... I'm not being confrontational, you must be the only one getting worked up apparently nothing cab be said without you taking it personally. You just used an outlier to try and justify an opinion, that's not how you form a credible argument....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 11:51:11 GMT -5
I don’t need to watch his 1st game to be reminded of how good he was.. Your comments remind me of why I don’t engage you on this board. You need to relax man, you’re way to confrontational over stupid ish... I'm not being confrontational, you must be the only one getting worked up. You just used an outlier to try and justify an opinion, that's not how you form a credible argument.... So I have to watch his 1st game to be reminded of how good he was day 1?? Makes sense…
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 27, 2015 11:57:43 GMT -5
I'm not being confrontational, you must be the only one getting worked up. You just used an outlier to try and justify an opinion, that's not how you form a credible argument.... So I have to watch his 1st game to be reminded of how good he was day 1?? Makes sense… I never told you to watch anything that's how you can tell you're getting caught up in emotion. You used his best Hoya performance to make the argument that it was generally indicative of his overall body of work in terms of effort and you stated he has had a good motor from day one so I simply asked why you didn't use his first game as evidence instead if his motor was always at that level because it would make for a more credible argument instead of using the best performance of his life. do you seriously not follow? If not just let me know
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 27, 2015 12:01:54 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 12:02:03 GMT -5
So I have to watch his 1st game to be reminded of how good he was day 1?? Makes sense… I never told you to watch anything that's how you can tell you're getting caught up in emotion. You used his best Hoya performance to make the argument that it was generally indicative of his overall body of work in terms of effort and you stated he has had a good motor from day one so I simply asked why you didn't use his first game as evidence instead if his motor was always at that level because it would make for a more credible argument instead of using the best performance of his life. do you seriously not follow? If not just let me know Otto averaged 7 Boards a game as a skinny Freshman in The BE. The game simply reminded me of how good he was in ALL aspects nothing else… Do you seriously not follow? If not let me know...
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Post by michaeldm9 on Mar 27, 2015 12:21:05 GMT -5
I think each year GTown has a team that can make a run. Next year all depends on if the team can get back to style of play like they have played in JTIII early years and had BE and NCAA tourney success. Last 2 years, the team has been disjointed. What I mean is that the style of defense JTIII want to play could not be played with Josh and they are limited on offence when Hopkins is on the Court. So if Hayes or Govan can prove that they can stay on the court and be productive on both side of the ball, the 2015/2016 team should be able to win the BE. Hayes will have to develop lot more in order to get significant minutes. Also JTIII will have to play Cameron and Mourning. Again if those things happen they can win the BE.
But my prediction is that Govan(Starting Center) and Dickerson(1st 4 off the bench) will get the nod. Both will be too green for the physical play in the BE. Mourning and Cameron will see little time and it will be back to the "Next Year Will Be ...." song. The team will probably finish 2nd to 4th in BE.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 27, 2015 12:26:29 GMT -5
Do we need a separate Ike V. Otto thread
I'll ad my 2 cents
I think if you went back and looked at a general consensus on this board after his freshman year Otto with expected improvement going forward was talked about as a potential 2 and done not the high lottery choice he became but concerned was voiced here that we might only have him for one more year.
We have not seen anywhere near the same level of excitement for Ike.
That said Otto came in from day one and was more than prepared to fit into the college game with a very high skill level and feel for the game.
Ike may have as much if not more natural abilities but unless he works extensively on his handle, passing, rebounding and defense there is very little reason to compare the two.
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Mar 27, 2015 12:42:58 GMT -5
I think each year GTown has a team that can make a run. Next year all depends on if the team can get back to style of play like they have played in JTIII early years and had BE and NCAA tourney success. Last 2 years, the team has been disjointed. What I mean is that the style of defense JTIII want to play could not be played with Josh and they are limited on offence when Hopkins is on the Court. So if Hayes or Govan can prove that they can stay on the court and be productive on both side of the ball, the 2015/2016 team should be able to win the BE. Hayes will have to develop lot more in order to get significant minutes. Also JTIII will have to play Cameron and Mourning. Again if those things happen they can win the BE. But my prediction is that Govan(Starting Center) and Dickerson (1st 4 off the bench) will get the nod. Both will be too green for the physical play in the BE. Mourning and Cameron will see little time and it will be back to the "Next Year Will Be ...." song. The team will probably finish 2nd to 4th in BE. LOL! Uh, we won't have a Dickerson on next year's team.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Mar 27, 2015 12:46:24 GMT -5
I posted this in another thread but I'll just repost it here since it's relevant:
I'm an enormous Copeland homer but I think it's Copeland or bust and his development is the key to this team next season. He's not that far behind freshman Otto. In BE games, Porter played 529 minutes, and Copeland 479 (Copeland in 3 extra games). On overall offensive rating, Copeland isn't stellar: 106.0 to 112.5. But Copeland scored more points (173 to 171) on a better eFG (53.6 to 52.6). The A/TO gap isn't huge (18/28 for Copeland and 25/24 for Otto). The big gap in ORating I think is actually created by Otto's advantage on the offensive glass (42 to 22). But if you're just comparing freshman Otto to freshman Copeland in terms of ability to be a lead scorer, the edge goes to Copeland. Copeland also wins on DR% (21.0 to 19.3).
The two big issues of course are that sophomore Porter's development was way beyond any reasonable extrapolation from freshman Porter's play; and Copeland's behind in several other areas, first and foremost that Otto had a gift for being in passing lanes and Copeland, to put it lightly, doesn't.
But Copeland doesn't have to be sophomore Otto Porter. The supporting cast will be vastly better next year than it was in 2013 at pretty much every position.
I'll add on that I disagree with anyone who thinks that Copeland lacks two-and-done potential. It is far from guaranteed he is here 2016-17.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 27, 2015 13:00:43 GMT -5
I think each year GTown has a team that can make a run. Next year all depends on if the team can get back to style of play like they have played in JTIII early years and had BE and NCAA tourney success. Last 2 years, the team has been disjointed. What I mean is that the style of defense JTIII want to play could not be played with Josh and they are limited on offence when Hopkins is on the Court. So if Hayes or Govan can prove that they can stay on the court and be productive on both side of the ball, the 2015/2016 team should be able to win the BE. Hayes will have to develop lot more in order to get significant minutes. Also JTIII will have to play Cameron and Mourning. Again if those things happen they can win the BE. But my prediction is that Govan(Starting Center) and Dickerson(1st 4 off the bench) will get the nod. Both will be too green for the physical play in the BE. Mourning and Cameron will see little time and it will be back to the "Next Year Will Be ...." song. The team will probably finish 2nd to 4th in BE. I think next year's offense will look a lot like the 2009-10 team's offense. That was JT3's fastest and highest scoring team, and with Tre, DSR, Peak, Copeland and White, there are a lot of guys that can push the ball, attack the basket and that have a lot of offensive talent. Ideally, all of those guys can shoot the three competently / really well also. I would be a little shocked to see us slow it down with so much talent on the roster, and based on our tempo this year (we ranked 193 this year and 188 in 2010 v. 328 and 316 in 07 & 08), I would assume we're going to speed it up. Hopefully, our defense doesn't fall off, at which point we could be really dangerous.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Mar 27, 2015 13:10:37 GMT -5
Key to next season is how we will be defensively. The frosh need to step it up in this regard. We know that everyone will make a jump offensively, but to me this will be a key.
The nice thing about Josh being gone, and you can pontificate all you want about whether he was a + or - overall, but we don't need to play a completely different style with subs. It was hard to adjust imho trying to play two different ways depending on if he was out there or not.
Would definitely like a 5th year senior guard to provide some depth, but other than that I love our pieces.
Excited for next season!
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Mar 27, 2015 14:45:45 GMT -5
Ike has a long way to go to be a two and done. That said, he has all of the physical tools to be a first round draft pick after next year. Will be very interesting to see how hard he works and how much better and confident he becomes. He is a more fluid athlete than Otto..more like a Jeff Green in that respect. However, as a frosh, Ike displayed very little of Otto's defense and rebounding ability. Both of those can and should improve greatly. Will be very cool to watch for next year.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 27, 2015 15:03:03 GMT -5
I would love to see Trey get stronger and get some pt next season. It would be nice to have 2 pfs that can shoot from the perimeter. I also agree with Tbird that next years team should resemble the 2010 team. We should have no problems scoring 70+ pts/gm. What I'm worried about is replacing Brilly, Bowen and Hop on defense. The only person that I can see at this moment that shows the intensity required to lead on defense is DSR and I don't want him to have that responsibility.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Mar 27, 2015 15:03:36 GMT -5
The guy Copeland reminds me of is Sam Dekker - 6'9, explosive athleticism, good outside shooter. After last night, Dekker is an attractive comparison! But Dekker has been a bit of a disappointment overall. He gets passive at times, then gets overly aggressive at others. It seems like the more structured Wisconsin offense can sometimes make it hard for Dekker to figure out how to use all his athletic gifts while still playing within the basic structure of the offense. Sound familiar?
But when everything is clicking - a talent like Dekker can dominate a game against top level competition, as he did last night, and as we saw Copeland do in little glimpses this year. It still might take some time/experience for Copeland to figure it all out - but if he develops the way we hope, he has the potential to be a pretty dominant college player, and a high NBA draft choice.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 27, 2015 19:12:00 GMT -5
I think each year GTown has a team that can make a run. Next year all depends on if the team can get back to style of play like they have played in JTIII early years and had BE and NCAA tourney success. Last 2 years, the team has been disjointed. What I mean is that the style of defense JTIII want to play could not be played with Josh and they are limited on offence when Hopkins is on the Court. So if Hayes or Govan can prove that they can stay on the court and be productive on both side of the ball, the 2015/2016 team should be able to win the BE. Hayes will have to develop lot more in order to get significant minutes. Also JTIII will have to play Cameron and Mourning. Again if those things happen they can win the BE. But my prediction is that Govan(Starting Center) and Dickerson(1st 4 off the bench) will get the nod. Both will be too green for the physical play in the BE. Mourning and Cameron will see little time and it will be back to the "Next Year Will Be ...." song. The team will probably finish 2nd to 4th in BE. I think next year's offense will look a lot like the 2009-10 team's offense. That was JT3's fastest and highest scoring team, and with Tre, DSR, Peak, Copeland and White, there are a lot of guys that can push the ball, attack the basket and that have a lot of offensive talent. Ideally, all of those guys can shoot the three competently / really well also. I would be a little shocked to see us slow it down with so much talent on the roster, and based on our tempo this year (we ranked 193 this year and 188 in 2010 v. 328 and 316 in 07 & 08), I would assume we're going to speed it up. Hopefully, our defense doesn't fall off, at which point we could be really dangerous. I hope this is right. It would be nice for the first time since 2010 not to have one completely useless offensive player in the starting lineup (yes I know by the end Hopkins was not starting). And frankly before Lubick, Julian Vaughn wasn't much.
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Post by hoya2023 on Mar 27, 2015 19:19:56 GMT -5
Jessie Govan is currently playing in the state semifinals and is STRUGGLING. We will get to see him on ESPNU against Oak Hill, though
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 28, 2015 8:28:14 GMT -5
You've been pretty consistently bullish on the hoyas the last few seasons right? I applaud the optimism and wish I shared it. To be better than 2007 (while remotely possible I guess) would require so many things happening it just seems a little silly. But here's hoping. 1) I didn't say they would be better. Read what I wrote. 2) Don't call what I write silly, because nothing I write is silly. 3) This team next season has a chance to be special. I didn't stutter. People on this board are unreal sometimes.....smh..... Touchy touchy.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 28, 2015 11:15:44 GMT -5
Two things. Regarding Ike v. Porter. I don't have the numbers but the thing that impressed everyone about Otto on day one was how good a rebounder he was. I distinctly remember friends (and TV announcers) remarking on how many key offensive and defensive rebounds he was getting. No way Ike can compare. Regarding Govan. I've said this many times but expecting a lot out of a big man based on his high school numbers is very dangerous. Unless he's playing for an Oak Hill or other elite prep school it is doubtful he is facing the kind of competition he will face in the BE or another Division 1 conference. I go to a lot of high school games and I can attest to the fact that a guy 6'8" and above can dominate in high school without much effort. Look at Hop and Lubicks high school numbers. And you also can't look at how they do in AAU and other games because most of those are offensive showcases and don't reward defense. In fact, several of my friends have commented on how few dominant big men we see in public high school games and tournaments nowadays. More and more of them are going to the private basketball academies. Went to the semifinal of the Pa. Quad A state championship and was surprised not to see a decent big man on the court. Also didn't see any D1 coaches in the stands. 10 years ago you could always expect to see potential D1 players (especially big men) and coaches at these games.
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