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Post by tullamore2 on Mar 20, 2015 0:36:36 GMT -5
After watching that last 8 minutes of the Eastern Washington game and seeing turnover after turnover, it's obvious our poor point guard play needs to improve. Next year we have only DSR who is a combo guard and Tre. Who else on this team can handle the ball? Basically after those two, we don't even have another guard on the team. No....LJ Peak isn't a guard.
JT3 needs to put more emphasis on recruiting guards. Guards that are quick, can handle and can run a team. Guard play wins come tournament time. We seem to have trouble playing smaller schools that have short, quick guards. I love getting all these 6'8" guys that are skilled but we need some ball handlers that are quick.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Mar 20, 2015 0:40:34 GMT -5
This is your post after we won?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 20, 2015 0:54:24 GMT -5
Tonight was not a dribbling problem. It was DSR making bonehead passes, forcing some, lazy in others. In terms of handling, next year is no Jabril, a lot more of experienced Tre. I think we will be even better than this year in handling.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 20, 2015 1:49:23 GMT -5
After watching that last 8 minutes of the Eastern Washington game and seeing turnover after turnover, it's obvious our poor point guard play needs to improve. Next year we have only DSR who is a combo guard and Tre. Who else on this team can handle the ball? Basically after those two, we don't even have another guard on the team. No....LJ Peak isn't a guard. JT3 needs to put more emphasis on recruiting guards. Guards that are quick, can handle and can run a team. Guard play wins come tournament time. We seem to have trouble playing smaller schools that have short, quick guards. I love getting all these 6'8" guys that are skilled but we need some ball handlers that are quick. Tullamore2 hates making intelligent posts. Seriously, you post this after a huge win? Have you made any posts in the main board?
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Post by tullamore2 on Mar 20, 2015 7:28:21 GMT -5
This is your post after we won? Maybe I should have worded the title of this post differently but I feel most people get my concerns. We have been lacking a floor general. When was the last time JT3 landed a top 50 point guard? Top 75 point guard? Chris Wright comes to mind but he was more of a scoring point guard. Starks was a great kid. He was a leader, a shooter but wasn't a "beat his man, drive the lane & get to the rim" whenever he wanted point guard. I look at this roster and we lack that lightening quick point guard that can get beat his man and get to the basket whenever he feels like it. Hopefully Tre develops into that. With the departure of Trawick we essentially have two guards on the entire roster next year (Tre, DSR). We have no guards coming in the 2015 recruiting class and the lack of depth could be big problem. The 2016 recruiting class (DSR won't be on the team) needs three guards in my opinion. Hopefully we can land Daquan Bracey, Fultz and another true guard.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 20, 2015 8:14:11 GMT -5
Maybe I should have worded the title of this post differently That's what the edit function is for. Feel free to go back and do just that.
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lucky
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Post by lucky on Mar 20, 2015 8:21:57 GMT -5
I don't think he hates recruiting them, the staff is on points every year. However, they also have to want to come here. That's a big key. The system utalizes a point forward roll and thus diminishes the roll of the true point guard. Top point guards would rather be running the show and not just needed to handle the ball at crunch time.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 20, 2015 8:22:49 GMT -5
Maybe I should have worded the title of this post differently Yes, think what a guard recruit would think if he checks HoyaTalk and sees the title of your thread. It reads like a statement of fact when it's just not true and just your incorrect perception.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 20, 2015 8:33:48 GMT -5
Tre Campbell is a point. Peak needs to take on the Jabril job from a handling standpoint and hopefully a defensive standpoint too.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 20, 2015 8:43:59 GMT -5
After watching that last 8 minutes of the Eastern Washington game and seeing turnover after turnover, it's obvious our poor point guard play needs to improve. Next year we have only DSR who is a combo guard and Tre. Who else on this team can handle the ball? Basically after those two, we don't even have another guard on the team. No....LJ Peak isn't a guard. JT3 needs to put more emphasis on recruiting guards. Guards that are quick, can handle and can run a team. Guard play wins come tournament time. We seem to have trouble playing smaller schools that have short, quick guards. I love getting all these 6'8" guys that are skilled but we need some ball handlers that are quick. Did we lose last night? And, yes, LJ is a guard.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 20, 2015 9:18:25 GMT -5
Tonight was not a dribbling problem. It was DSR making bonehead passes, forcing some, lazy in others. In terms of handling, next year is no Jabril, a lot more of experienced Tre. I think we will be even better than this year in handling. This. Although we looked a bit panicked handling the full-court pressure, I really did not see this as a point guard problem at all. DSR, and some others, just had a bunch of unforced turnovers to complement the forced turnovers. Very unusual for DSR, since he had done a great job taking care of the ball this year. For the most part, the staff did not handle the pressure all that well either.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Mar 20, 2015 9:40:51 GMT -5
I actually thought Tre was very good breaking the press for the most part. He's so fast he just outruns double teams whereas DSR is more methodical about it. DSR made some dumb passes, but that's really not a long term issue with him. He'll be fine. Having Tre and DSR to run point next year looks pretty damn good to me. That's a position of strength.
Getting Bracey in 2016 would be a great way to keep it going.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 20, 2015 9:48:14 GMT -5
Exactly. He had a 6 TOs last night. When was the last time that happened?
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 20, 2015 9:54:38 GMT -5
I don't think you brought up bad points OP. Just bad timing.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 20, 2015 10:46:38 GMT -5
So when his the timing good? After a loss, or after the seson.
All points raised are very valid. This wasn't The Villes pressure from a couple of years ago. It was EW. and it gave us a lot of trouble. Outside of Novas Zone traps and pressure we haven't seen much this year or last.
Its not just some bonehead passes by DSR that were wtf and can easily be corrected but its the mental pressure that the press will eventually cause those errors.
Going forward jabrill has not been replaced at what ever position you want to call it. A combo, Pt forward, or a traditional 2.
Is Tre the answer I'm far from convinced,he has speed but his handle and passing are a far cry from what is needed.
Those who say we don't need your classic pg may be right i just don't see the classic Point Forward yet in either Copeland or White. We aren't even running much of the offense that we have been accustomed to.
Still think we need to add depth to the position for next year and quality for 16 and it would be great if we could find a guard that could defend.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 20, 2015 11:30:01 GMT -5
His points to me are good regardless of a win or a loss. But most people won't want to see anything negative about their team after an emotional loss. Flip side is I am not a fan of people who rip the team minutes after a loss. Let it breath.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Mar 20, 2015 11:42:06 GMT -5
The thing is it doesn't even make sense. JT3 has recruited Jon Wallace, Chris Wright, Markel Starks, DSR, and now Tre Campbell. Those first four guys were all league level players or better. Tre is pretty damn good too. He had no turnovers under pressure. And yes, it really was mostly a product of bad passes by DSR that made their pressure look better than it was.
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Post by tullamore2 on Mar 20, 2015 11:55:25 GMT -5
The thing is it doesn't even make sense. JT3 has recruited Jon Wallace, Chris Wright, Markel Starks, DSR, and now Tre Campbell. Those first four guys were all league level players or better. Tre is pretty damn good too. He had no turnovers under pressure. And yes, it really was mostly a product of bad passes by DSR that made their pressure look better than it was. It does make sense. All I'm saying is JT3 has done incredibly well recruiting frontcourt players. He finds talented players that are 6' 7" and taller. He just doesn't find great talent with guards. Yes.....Wallace, Freeman, Wright, Starks & DSR are decent to good college players but not great. List of frontcourt players that made the NBA under JT3 Monroe Summers Sims Porter Green Hibert Thompson List of guards that made the NBA under JT3 0.00
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Mar 20, 2015 12:07:59 GMT -5
I don't think he hates recruiting them, the staff is on points every year. However, they also have to want to come here. That's a big key. The system utalizes a point forward roll and thus diminishes the roll of the true point guard. Top point guards would rather be running the show and not just needed to handle the ball at crunch time. It's really this simple. Our offense helps us get guys like Porter, Copeland, White, but is going to hurt us with elite true points. Whether or not this is beneficial... It definitely is at the NBA level where point guards aren't winning you titles. In NCAA it's closer because talented forwards (like Porter) are apt to leave early because that's a rare skillset, whereas 6' guys who can play are far more common and thus likely to stay 4 years.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 20, 2015 12:29:02 GMT -5
The thing is it doesn't even make sense. JT3 has recruited Jon Wallace, Chris Wright, Markel Starks, DSR, and now Tre Campbell. Those first four guys were all league level players or better. Tre is pretty damn good too. He had no turnovers under pressure. And yes, it really was mostly a product of bad passes by DSR that made their pressure look better than it was. It does make sense. All I'm saying is JT3 has done incredibly well recruiting frontcourt players. He finds talented players that are 6' 7" and taller. He just doesn't find great talent with guards. Yes.....Wallace, Freeman, Wright, Starks & DSR are decent to good college players but not great. List of frontcourt players that made the NBA under JT3 Monroe Summers Sims Porter Green Hibert Thompson List of guards that made the NBA under JT3 0.00 I don't think it is worth getting into a Editeding match, but your point is pretty weak when you say JTIII "doesn't find great talent with guards" and support that point by saying that "Wallace, Freeman, Wright, Starks & DSR are decent to good college players." Three of those five were HIGHLY recruited guards coming out of high school, so the statement utterly undermines the point you are trying to make.
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