bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 31, 2015 9:03:13 GMT -5
I agree that the long-term tournament success of both Izzo and Pitino is their focus on defense and rebounding. That keeps them in games, so when they make shots they can go on a tournament run.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 31, 2015 9:06:30 GMT -5
You do not understand my point. I am agreeing they have good players and a good team and that their NCAA record is worthy of all the praise it receives. But they shouldn't get extra praise for winning as a 7-seed when if they had played up to their ability during the regular season they would have been a 4-seed. Michigan State has talent at least equal to UVA, Oklahoma, and Louisville they just didn't play like it during the regular season. It is still a great run to beat them all. I am only objecting to the 538 chart that rates coaches for playing above their seeds without considering that in many cases they were lower seeds because their teams did not live up to expectations during the regular season. I was more annoyed by Calipari being 3rd on the list behind Izzo and Pitino. Calipari should not get extra credit for taking Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Patterson, Orton, et al to the Final Four as a 4-seed when they should not have lost 6 SEC games and should not have been a 4-seed. Unless you think that not showing up for half a dozen conference games somehow helped them play better in March. Some good discussion here, including the posts subsequent to this one. I agree on the overall point, that some of these guys are getting credit for under-achieving during the regular season. It may have a little to do with gelling, etc., but I think it has more to do with some of the teams -- essentially all-star teams --just going on cruise control and then bearing down come the post-season. Nothign wrong with that, really, if they are succeeding in the post-season, but I think the logic is flawed if the conclusion is that the coach is over-achieving compared to seeding. As far as Izzo, let's also not pretend that he is taking a bunch of scrubs to the Final Four each year. He gets some damn good talent at Mcihigan State. Having said that, I may be wrong and the facts may not back me up, but my impression is that the overall "individual" talent of his teams is not even close to what UK, Duke, Louisville, UNC, Kansas get year-over-year. Yet he does manage to succeed in the post-season. I think he is in a class by himself.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Apr 1, 2015 8:26:13 GMT -5
Kansas City columnist Sam Mellinger in response to an Izzo vs. Self question: www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/dont-kill-the-mellinger/article17006498.html"...Izzo has a much better NCAA Tournament record than Self, though even with this year’s Final Four, their records over the last decade are very similar:
Six Sweet 16s, three Final Fours, no titles, 23 total wins for Izzo.
Six Sweet 16s, two Final Fours, one title, 23 total wins for Self.
The big difference, of course, is in regular-season performance and NCAA Tournament seeding. Nobody regularly outplays their seeding like Michigan State. This really is pretty crazy. In the last decade, the Spartans’ average seeding is 5.7. Over that same time, Kansas has been seeded first five times, second three times, third twice, fourth once, and never worse.
It’s obviously very close, and I guess what it comes down to in large part is expectation. Self’s teams have been regularly terrific in the regular season, which builds up expectation. Izzo’s teams have often muddied their way through the regular season, which means tournament wins are celebrated a little more."There also is a ranking of Self's NCAA losses at Kansas. Most notable to me is that he ranks losing to VCU in the Elite 8 as the 2nd worse loss, worse than one loss in the round of 64 and three losses in the round of 32.
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Post by flyoverhoya on Apr 1, 2015 8:47:39 GMT -5
Crazy fact - 8 of Chad Ford's projected first round picks will be playing in the UW-Kentucky game on Saturday.
Also, Bo Ryan may have some serious work to do next year to keep his streak of top 4 finishes in the Big 10 alive.
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TBird41
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"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 1, 2015 9:00:45 GMT -5
Crazy fact - 8 of Chad Ford's projected first round picks will be playing in the UW-Kentucky game on Saturday. Also, Bo Ryan may have some serious work to do next year to keep his streak of top 4 finishes in the Big 10 alive. I don't have insider, so I'm trying to figure out how he gets to 8? I assume he has the following, but who is the 8th? Kentucky: 5 (Towns, Cauley-Stein, Booker, Lyles & Dakari Johnson) Wisconsin: (Kaminsky & Dekker)
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Apr 1, 2015 9:08:59 GMT -5
Crazy fact - 8 of Chad Ford's projected first round picks will be playing in the UW-Kentucky game on Saturday. Also, Bo Ryan may have some serious work to do next year to keep his streak of top 4 finishes in the Big 10 alive. I don't have insider, so I'm trying to figure out how he gets to 8? I assume he has the following, but who is the 8th? Kentucky: 5 (Towns, Cauley-Stein, Booker, Lyles & Dakari Johnson) Wisconsin: (Kaminsky & Dekker) Nigel Hayes. He is actually ranked ahead of Dakari Johnson in most boards. I dont think Johnson goes in the first round.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 1, 2015 9:21:36 GMT -5
I don't have insider, so I'm trying to figure out how he gets to 8? I assume he has the following, but who is the 8th? Kentucky: 5 (Towns, Cauley-Stein, Booker, Lyles & Dakari Johnson) Wisconsin: (Kaminsky & Dekker) Nigel Hayes. He is actually ranked ahead of Dakari Johnson in most boards. I dont think Johnson goes in the first round. That makes sense. And I agree with you on Dakari Johnson--I just figured he had to be included if Ford was going to get to 8.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Apr 4, 2015 7:39:06 GMT -5
Final Four Picks:
(7) Michigan State vs (1) Duke Winner (7) Michigan State
(1) Wisconsin vs (1) Kentucky Winner (1) Kentucky
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 4, 2015 11:06:22 GMT -5
Great to talk about the tournament and the teams in it. But I get a little upset when we start comparing JT3 with these tournament coaches. Folks, those coaches are playing with a much stronger hand than we have. One simple fact. In the last 30 years (since the GU, Nova! st John's) Final Four 120 teams have made it to the Final four. Of those 7, yes 7, have been small, private schools (Duke excluded). We just have to accept the fact that swimming in this pond is brutal. unless we get lucky again and land a guy like Roy Hibbert who is not heavily recruited but develops into a first round pick we will have to settle for the occasional BE championship and maybe a run to the sweet 16 or elite 8. Not saying that I don't hope for more every year but I'm not going to knock JT3 for not getting us there.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Apr 4, 2015 12:05:06 GMT -5
Which, if this is the case and the Big East is nothing more than a mid-major conference with no ability to produce a national title contender, then there is no way our present situation with a $2.8 million coach, a 20,000 seat arena and FOX cable contract is sustainable beyond about 2 years. We either have to upgrade as a basketball only member of the ACC or punt and take our programs to a conference of our academic peers-the Ivy League. Or win.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 4, 2015 12:09:53 GMT -5
Which, if this is the case and the Big East is nothing more than a mid-major then there is no way our present situation with a $2.8 million coach, a 20,000 seat arena and FOX cable contract is sustainable beyond about 2 years. Except its been sustainable for a lot longer than that. Why do people always feel the need to be extremist and alarmist?
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 4, 2015 17:44:31 GMT -5
IN THE FIRST HALF National Semifinal Game at Indianapolis IN: South #1 Duke 23, East #7 Michigan State 20 (5:23 to play)
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 4, 2015 18:23:04 GMT -5
AT HALFTIME National Semifinal Game at Indianapolis IN: South #1 Duke 36, East #7 Michigan State 25
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Apr 4, 2015 18:46:29 GMT -5
Okafor is an outstanding college player in the damning with faint praise sense. Lacks athleticism and the impact you're looking for on the defensive end from a top pick center. Rich man's Al Jefferson.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 4, 2015 19:03:08 GMT -5
IN THE SECOND HALF National Semifinal Game at Indianapolis IN: South #1 Duke 65, East #7 Michigan State 51 (6:02 to play)
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 4, 2015 19:25:09 GMT -5
FINAL SCORE National Semifinal Game at Indianapolis IN: South #1 Duke 81, East #7 Michigan State 61
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Apr 4, 2015 20:23:31 GMT -5
The twins are absolute garbage. How these kids were ever considered Top 5 in their class is beyond me except for recruiters obsessions with big strong guards that can dominate 16 year olds but can't succeed at the next level (Isaiah Whitehead please stand up)
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 4, 2015 20:35:32 GMT -5
FINAL SCORE National Semifinal Game at Indianapolis IN: South #1 Duke 81, East #7 Michigan State 61
IN THE FIRST HALF National Semifinal Game at Indianapolis IN: West #1 Wisconsin 23, Midwest #1 Kentucky 16 (7:41 to play)
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Apr 4, 2015 20:47:50 GMT -5
Add another way Nova screwed everyone. This should be the final. What a game!
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 4, 2015 20:54:24 GMT -5
FINAL SCORE National Semifinal Game at Indianapolis IN: South #1 Duke 81, East #7 Michigan State 61
AT HALFTIME National Semifinal Game at Indianapolis IN: West #1 Wisconsin 37, Midwest #1 Kentucky 36
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