prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 7, 2015 17:46:37 GMT -5
Freeman set the mark at 17.6 ppg/season and DSR matched it last year. Markel's best was 17.3. Yeah and I said if I wasn't mistaken. Either way they're the only thee to average 17 under III....which speaks to the point I was trying to make. Not to mention the difference in their scoring averages is negligible. I'll bet DSR breaks that mark next year. It's going to be fun. Trivia: What's the ppg record for a Hoya under JT3 in the BET? NCAA Tournament?
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SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 7, 2015 22:01:41 GMT -5
The top eight individual season scoring average ppg in the JT3 era Player PPG Year Austin Freeman
| 17.6 | Senior | DSR | 17.6 | Sophomore | Markel Starks
| 17.3 | Senior | Austin Freeman | 16.5 | Junior | Otto Porter
| 16.2 | Sophomore | Greg Monroe
| 16.1 | Sophomore | DSR | 16.0 | Junior | Chris Wright
| 15.2 | Junior
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,318
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Post by tashoya on Mar 7, 2015 22:31:06 GMT -5
Freeman set the mark at 17.6 ppg/season and DSR matched it last year. Markel's best was 17.3. Yeah and I said if I wasn't mistaken. Either way they're the only thee to average 17 under III....which speaks to the point I was trying to make. Not to mention the difference in their scoring averages is negligible. And then you got a little touchy when you were mistaken. These are easy things to research. Takes no time at all. It's not really negligible. Context and team construction means a lot with regard to personal stats. It helps greatly when the team is balanced and opponents are forced to focus on multiple offensive threats. When you're one of 2 or 3 offensive options on a 5 man team, your numbers, necessarily, are more difficult to achieve.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 8, 2015 10:51:25 GMT -5
Yeah and I said if I wasn't mistaken. Either way they're the only thee to average 17 under III....which speaks to the point I was trying to make. Not to mention the difference in their scoring averages is negligible. And then you got a little touchy when you were mistaken. These are easy things to research. Takes no time at all. It's not really negligible. Context and team construction means a lot with regard to personal stats. It helps greatly when the team is balanced and opponents are forced to focus on multiple offensive threats. When you're one of 2 or 3 offensive options on a 5 man team, your numbers, necessarily, are more difficult to achieve. I wasn't really mistaken, only if we're talking semantics. Not touchy at all, just pointing out there's not point in trying to correct someone when they self-admittedly have a vague answer and the specific facts don't refute any of the points I was trying to make. They are negligible for the same exact same reasons you listed. .3 ppg difference over the course of the seaso isn't significant enough to stand on its own. As several posters have argued in this thread, having better balance does not necessarily correlate to higher offensive numbers. I'd say last year we were even less balanced in terms of where shots would come from and he averaged more with more responsibility (scoring-wise) on his shoulders. And not to mention over the course of the second half of the season without Josh and being very efficient while doing so. Plus, DSR averaged 17 as a soph, and Austin as a senior. Austin may be my favorite player of the III era, and he was a phenomenal scorer and athlete but I think DSR has already proven to be the better offensive player with his current body of work. The backcourt a Afree ran with gave him a lot of space to operate with. My gut reaction tells me Austin is the better pure scorer, but DSR is the more skilled and more efficient scorer. Both have great FT strokes, but you gotta give the edge to DSR because he is just so much more cerebral, clutch and does more with less.
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SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 12, 2015 20:51:08 GMT -5
Smith-Rivera just took over the Creighton game at the BET with GU down 5 (46-51) and under 5 minutes to go. He scored 12 of our final 14 points as Hoyas went on a 14-5 run to win the game. 4:48 - Hits a Three 4:09 - Gets defensive board 2:50 - Layup + 1 (and he converted the FT) 1:01 - Unbelievable drive and finish with a short jumper in traffic 0:18 - 2 FTs 0:04 - 2 FTs
Wherever we were ranking him before, he just moved up. Best guard of the JT3 era? Really, who was better? I know. We still have the rest of the BET to go, and the NCAAs. And he has another season. But DSR took this team on his back and won the game. He is easily our best player. His talent is matched only by his poise. I don't know how many minutes he had, but he was almost always out there. He shot 7/13, 4/7 Treys, and 7/7 FTs. Had 3 boards and only 1 TO. Team needs to find some other cats besides Josh to help him out.
DSR is continuing to build his legacy and added to it big time tonight.
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hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445
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Post by hoya95 on Mar 12, 2015 20:59:36 GMT -5
He flat out saved us tonight. Not sure I've seen any Hoya do that in any tournament game since Jeff Green. So I don't know where to rank him, but I'm happy as hell that he's ours!
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Mar 12, 2015 22:09:23 GMT -5
He flat out saved us tonight. Not sure I've seen any Hoya do that in any tournament game since Jeff Green. So I don't know where to rank him, but I'm happy as hell that he's ours! I mentioned something similar in another thread. You rank him 1 under JT3. That's where he belongs. I texted that exact thing to my (long ago) roommate of 3 years after the game. For me it was Austin and JW. In that order and probably closer than many would group them. But DSR separates himself from JW for me in terms of finding a way to score. He doesn't have elite speed or bounce or agility. He just does it. Wallace was money in the bank on open threes and could get in the lane a bit but not nearly on the level of DSR. In terms of Austin, DSR is a better rebounder and has come a long way in terms of his passing (even just this year) but Austin couldn't hold a candle to DSR's defense and, if he did hold that candle, it'd probably be in a waving motion with no movement of his feet. J-Wall and Austin were very good fits for the teams they were on but DSR is a better all around player than both of them. He was asked to carry the offense and close the show tonight and he did that. He also did a great job on D. I still don't get how he does it sometimes but he does it.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 13, 2015 8:59:29 GMT -5
I think last night added a fairly definitive punctuation mark to any debate about whether or not DSR is the best guard of the JTIII era. Onions.
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aristides
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by aristides on Mar 13, 2015 9:51:26 GMT -5
DSR is the best guard in the JTIII era in my book. Wallace holds a unique spot in that book though... He never had DSR's talent, but he was special in his own way.
DSR had a number of critics when he came to this program, ballacup, etc., but he's proven them wrong imo.
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playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by playtyler on Mar 31, 2015 19:16:30 GMT -5
Not trolling. Just asking. In light of his performance in the BE Tournament and NCAA Tournament, and the fact that he is leaving, we now have all of the information on his Georgetown career. Where does he fit in? Did he have a better career than recent lead guards, Chris Wright, Markel Starks, Jon Wallace, when you take into account defense, assists, scoring? DSRs defense was always an issue for me. In the Utah game 5 of the 8 three pointers they made were his man. Offensively he was as good as the other guards (though Wallace was a better shooter) and Starks/Wright were more pure point guards (assists). Where does he rank?
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McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
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Post by McBricks on Mar 31, 2015 19:22:00 GMT -5
In my opinion, it's Wallace at #1 with DSR, Starks and Wright behind.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 31, 2015 19:55:24 GMT -5
1. Wallace 2. Starks/Wright 3. DSR/Freeman 5. Sapp/Trawick
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 31, 2015 22:03:37 GMT -5
I would like to know where Elvado now ranks DSR?!!
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 8, 2015 9:44:44 GMT -5
Looks like we'll have to keep this thread active for another year. In my eyes, DSR has the chance to beat Starks/Wright with a solid, injury-less season. If he gets us to the Final 4 then he takes J. Wallace's spot.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 8, 2015 10:24:07 GMT -5
Looks like we'll have to keep this thread active for another year. In my eyes, DSR has the chance to beat Starks/Wright with a solid, injury-less season. If he gets us to the Final 4 then he takes J. Wallace's spot. JWall gets so much credit for being on Roy and Jeff's team in 2007. Great player, but it seems weird saying JT3's best guard was a guard in an offense that ran through our center/power forward for (at least) three years, and who had his defensive liabilities covered up by an All-NBA rim protector. Not to mention his struggles with the press and that he shared a large amount of the point guard duties with Jesse Sapp. So, yeah, it seems odd that even if DSR leads his team to the Elite 8 or Sweet 16 next year, finishes in the top 5 in points scored all time, is the best rebounding guard the Hoyas have had since the 1980s and continues to make game winning defensive plays (like he did twice against Butler), he won't be able to surpass JWall as the best Hoya guard since Iverson.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 8, 2015 10:51:11 GMT -5
Looks like we'll have to keep this thread active for another year. In my eyes, DSR has the chance to beat Starks/Wright with a solid, injury-less season. If he gets us to the Final 4 then he takes J. Wallace's spot. JWall gets so much credit for being on Roy and Jeff's team in 2007. Great player, but it seems weird saying JT3's best guard was a guard in an offense that ran through our center/power forward for (at least) three years, and who had his defensive liabilities covered up by an All-NBA rim protector. Not to mention his struggles with the press and that he shared a large amount of the point guard duties with Jesse Sapp. So, yeah, it seems odd that even if DSR leads his team to the Elite 8 or Sweet 16 next year, finishes in the top 5 in points scored all time, is the best rebounding guard the Hoyas have had since the 1980s and continues to make game winning defensive plays (like he did twice against Butler), he won't be able to surpass JWall as the best Hoya guard since Iverson. It doesn't matter what team sport it is, I think the natural human tendency is to inflate the importance of almost any team member relative to the performance of a team. Wallace was a great shooter. He was sneaky opportunistic at driving and actually pretty good at converting those shots. He became a good enough defender, was a coach on the floor and was always steady. He ran the offense and I think he was likely a key leader on the team buying in and working hard. He was a super efficient complementary player and a big reason why those teams succeeded -- if you have creators, you don't need another one -- you need efficiency. (Efficient creators are the best, of course). Normally, it's tough to compare efficient complementary players and less efficient creators. Very often they can't do each other's job. I don't think with less shots Victor Page would have shot 44% from three. But I also don't think Jon Wallace could have gotten that many shots of quality. But a comp to DSR really isn't that hard. He's sort of wedged in between Creator and Complementary -- he's as efficient as Wallace was, but he takes more shots, dishes more assists, commits less turnovers, rebounds better and I think he's a better defender. And if he was playing with Green and Hibbert, I think he might shoot 50% from 3. I love Wallace, but DSR is a better player.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 8, 2015 11:31:35 GMT -5
Looks like we'll have to keep this thread active for another year. In my eyes, DSR has the chance to beat Starks/Wright with a solid, injury-less season. If he gets us to the Final 4 then he takes J. Wallace's spot. JWall gets so much credit for being on Roy and Jeff's team in 2007. Great player, but it seems weird saying JT3's best guard was a guard in an offense that ran through our center/power forward for (at least) three years, and who had his defensive liabilities covered up by an All-NBA rim protector. Not to mention his struggles with the press and that he shared a large amount of the point guard duties with Jesse Sapp. So, yeah, it seems odd that even if DSR leads his team to the Elite 8 or Sweet 16 next year, finishes in the top 5 in points scored all time, is the best rebounding guard the Hoyas have had since the 1980s and continues to make game winning defensive plays (like he did twice against Butler), he won't be able to surpass JWall as the best Hoya guard since Iverson. I agree with this. DSR is definitely a better basketball player overall. Even if we don't make a Final Four with him, I have no doubt he'll be right up there with Wallace on my personal (subjective) list of favorite JT3 guard. As far as stats go (objective), there is no question in my mind DSR will be JT3's best.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Apr 8, 2015 13:37:34 GMT -5
We don't need to limit DSR to JTIII era guard comparisons.
With a Final 4 run next year and finishing with close to 2,000 points, DSR easily blows by guys like Wallace, Freeman, Wright, Clark, and Starks, and puts himself in the discussion for Top 10 all-time, competing for a spot alongside guys like Duren, Wingate, Jackson, and Smitty.
He just needs NCAA success to validate an otherwise exemplary career.
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ahoya2
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by ahoya2 on Apr 8, 2015 14:42:39 GMT -5
I have been a season ticket holder since 1980. If he comes back I would rate him as one of the best guards. Best Floyd. Other top notch guards: John Duren Michael Jackson David Wingate Charles Smith Iverso- and then Wallace, Clark, Freeman The guy can rebound, improved defender, few turnovers, shoot, made himself a better ball handler,fewer wild trips to the hoop like Wright. The guy can just play.
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ahoya2
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 135
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Post by ahoya2 on Apr 8, 2015 14:51:30 GMT -5
forgot Starks
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