Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 12:44:56 GMT -5
Just to further clarify. There were several players from the 80s who were clearly better than DSR. I just don't believe that any of them were as complete (with the exception of Reggie Williams) as DSR. However, I kind of doubt that DSR has the overall ability to play in the NBA (I hope I am wrong) as he doesn't appear to have the quickness or athleticism needed.
|
|
Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
|
Post by Dhall on Mar 5, 2015 12:46:44 GMT -5
I'll wait to see the rest of this year and next before ranking generally, but where he stands out is in making plays at crucial times, particularly last 5 minutes and OT. He makes free throws, big shots, defensive plays and importantly doesn't choke. Best clutch guy since Jeff Green in my opinion. This isn't just the Butler game - he's done it repeatedly.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Mar 5, 2015 12:49:13 GMT -5
Let's not forget Charles Smith ....especially during his senior season. He was clearly a cut above DSR. In fact, there are very few Hoyas in the modern era who had a better single season than Charles Smith....Reggie Williams for sure and possibly Iverson. I agree with this (and the '88-'89 team is really my sweet spot when it comes to Georgetown basketball). This is also why I and several of my classmates will start on goatees after the game Saturday, not to be shaved off until after our final game of the season. The "Charles Smith Final Four Goatee". Sadly, as everyone here knows well, it has only worked once in 26 years. Smith's senior year might be better than any single season DSR has had / will have, but would you take Smith's 4 years over DSR's? Kinda depends on our success in the postseason this year and what happens next year, doesn't it? I think in the post Iverson era the only players clearly ahead of DSR right now are Mike Sweetney, Jeff Green and Roy. I think (and hope) that after this postseason and next year, it'll be clear that he ranks higher than Otto and Greg Monroe. And if he leads the team to a Final Four / BET title? Well, it'll be a lot easier to say where he fits in the pantheon. That all being said, as great as DSR is, it's going to be really hard (aka impossible) to crack the top 5 all time, which probably consists of the greatest player we've ever had (Ewing), the all-time leading scorer (Floyd), the best all around player we've ever had (Reggie Williams) and two other NBA Hall of Famers (Mourning & Iverson). Heck, to crack the top 6 you'd have to be considered better than the greatest point guard we've ever had (Duren). hoyabasketball.com/features/top100.htm
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,238
Member is Online
|
Post by prhoya on Mar 5, 2015 12:52:03 GMT -5
Bay Bay Duren was pretty good, but there are likely few board members who would remember. Bay Bay was the best PG ever to play at GU - and that includes AI, who wasn't really a PG. Iverson was clearly one-of-a-kind. Best athlete ever to play at GU - maybe ever to play NCAA hoops. Best offensive guard ever. Won BE Defensive POY. But Duren understood the game, was tough as nails, played great O and D, and was a real leader of the entire team. He was also the first Hoya to be drafted in Round 1 of the NBA draft. in 79/80 he teamed with Eric "Sleepy" Floyd in the best backcourt ever to play for the Hoyas. Of course, those of us who remember Bay Bay, also remember his HS and GU teammate, forward Craig "Big Sky" Shelton. Both Duren and Shelton are among the top ten Hoyas of all time. More on Johnny Duren: www.hoyabasketball.com/features/top100/j_duren.htmAll that said, DSR is terrific. We are so lucky to have him. Does anyone still wish we had Semaj Christon instead? DSR probably is the best guard of the JT3 era. Freeman had great offensive ability and could shoot the three. Yes, he suffered from Diabetes and that did hold him back, but so did his conditioning - or lack thereof. He was not a good defender and had no mid-range game. DSR can get himself open for those mid-range shots and can and will score in any way necessary - driving layups, treys, mid-range, putbacks, foul shots, he just finds a way to score the ball. And he is the unquestioned leader of the team. Talented as Freeman was, he was never the leader of the team. One could say Austin played out of position at the three too often. I n my view? DSR is number one. Of course, that is why I totally disagreed with that reported comment from Pops that Jabril was the only player on the current team who could have played for his teams in the 80s. If that is what he really said, I can only assume he wasn't really thinking and was simply trying to pay Trawick a compliment. But in the process he dissed DSR (intentionally or not) because there is no question Smith-Rivera could have played on all of those 80s teams and likely started for most of them. AND WE GET HIM FOR ONE MORE YEAR! Agree, except for the Freeman mid-range game. That was his forte coming out of high school. He used it at GU and it was smooth and beautiful. He just didn't use it enough at GU as we all would have liked and that's probably why it's forgettable.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,238
Member is Online
|
Post by prhoya on Mar 5, 2015 12:54:21 GMT -5
I am not sure that DSR isn't the most complete player ever, including during Pops tenure. Now he is nowhere the the player that AI was and may never even play in the NBA. However, he does it all and I don't think we have ever had a player like that at Georgetown. Let's not forget Charles Smith ....especially during his senior season. He was clearly a cut above DSR. In fact, there are very few Hoyas in the modern era who had a better single season than Charles Smith....Reggie Williams for sure and possibly Iverson. Let's wait for DSR's senior season.
|
|
SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
|
Post by SirSaxa on Mar 5, 2015 13:00:39 GMT -5
Just to further clarify. There were several players from the 80s who were clearly better than DSR. I just don't believe that any of them were as complete (with the exception of Reggie Williams) as DSR. I don't agree with that Jerry: Sleepy Duren Michael Jackson Charles Smith Reggie Eric Smith Fred Brown Bill Martin David Wingate Mark Tillmon We had a ton of great players back in the day. Love DSR and he would have held his own with most of those on the list above.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 5, 2015 13:08:56 GMT -5
Just to further clarify. There were several players from the 80s who were clearly better than DSR. I just don't believe that any of them were as complete (with the exception of Reggie Williams) as DSR. However, I kind of doubt that DSR has the overall ability to play in the NBA (I hope I am wrong) as he doesn't appear to have the quickness or athleticism needed. He's an old school type skill player like Joe Dumars or a mini Larry Bird. If Matthew Delladova can play in the NBA I think DSR has a shot as well since DSR is at least as good if not better than Delladova.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 13:39:46 GMT -5
Just to further clarify. There were several players from the 80s who were clearly better than DSR. I just don't believe that any of them were as complete (with the exception of Reggie Williams) as DSR. I don't agree with that Jerry: Sleepy Duren Michael Jackson Charles Smith Reggie Eric Smith Fred Brown Bill Martin David Wingate Mark Tillmon We had a ton of great players back in the day. Love DSR and he would have held his own with most of those on the list above. Hi SirSaxa So you think all of these guys could rebound as well as DSR?? These are all great players, but I am not sure all of the guards could rebound, guard, block shots, assist, run the team, defend, shoot the three and do all of the things DSR does. For example, was sleepy a great rebounder? The players you mentioned are overall better than DSR, I am just claiming that none of them are as complete. Not a major issue. Just brought it up to create some discussion.
|
|
HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,408
|
Post by HoyaChris on Mar 5, 2015 14:34:28 GMT -5
I don't agree with that Jerry: Sleepy Duren Michael Jackson Charles Smith Reggie Eric Smith Fred Brown Bill Martin David Wingate Mark Tillmon We had a ton of great players back in the day. Love DSR and he would have held his own with most of those on the list above. Hi SirSaxa So you think all of these guys could rebound as well as DSR?? These are all great players, but I am not sure all of the guards could rebound, guard, block shots, assist, run the team, defend, shoot the three and do all of the things DSR does. For example, was sleepy a great rebounder? The players you mentioned are overall better than DSR, I am just claiming that none of them are as complete. Not a major issue. Just brought it up to create some discussion. Let me answer for Sir Saxa. Sleepy was as good a rebounder as DSR. He was a good enough passer to have a long career as an NBA point guard even though he was a two in college. He is the career Hoya scoring leader without the three point shot and he absolutely would have been the best three point shooter in Hoya history had it been in play during his career. This is a guy who went off for 57 against the Lakers in a playoff game. I love DSR. I think there is a chance tht he could edge his way into the top ten of Thompson Era Hoyas with a big senior year. But Sleepy was as complete and better.
|
|
playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 244
|
Post by playtyler on Mar 5, 2015 14:48:45 GMT -5
The best comparison for DSR is Braswell. They were similar players. Though, I would say at this stage that DSR is not the complete player that Braswell was. DSR really needs to step up this last game and in the BET and NCAA tournament. DSRs teams have really underperformed for 3 years. 1 NCAA tournament win (Belmont). This year we are 4-9 against RPI Top 50. Braswell ended his GU career 8th all time in scoring, first in assists and first in steals. DSR is a very good shooter and offensive player. But, remains to be seen where he ranks all time. Right now, he should be below Braswell.
P.S. my favorite running subplot on Hoyatalk is the anti-Balla sentiment. Really great work. He was one of the VERY few on this site with any real information about the program. He was the first and strongest on Josh Smith and several others. You guys ran him off the site and now the site brings us these moronic conversations that swing game to game and almost no one with any real clue what is going on in the program. This site is much less valuable without Balla. For those who are constantly negative about Balla, I challenge them to let us know ANYTHING THEY HAVE EVER added to this site that is inside information IN ANY WAY. Balla may have been wrong on Roscoe, but he was also right several times. NONE of you Balla critics have ever broken any information. I invite you to please respond to this post with ANY information you have ever broken on this site about the program. Along those lines thanks to Blueandgray. He always adds information. One of the FEW. Fewer without Balla.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Mar 5, 2015 15:11:45 GMT -5
The best comparison for DSR is Braswell. They were similar players. Though, I would say at this stage that DSR is not the complete player that Braswell was. DSR really needs to step up this last game and in the BET and NCAA tournament. DSRs teams have really underperformed for 3 years. 1 NCAA tournament win (Belmont). This year we are 4-9 against RPI Top 50. Braswell ended his GU career 8th all time in scoring, first in assists and first in steals. DSR is a very good shooter and offensive player. But, remains to be seen where he ranks all time. Right now, he should be below Braswell. Anyone else think its odd to dock DSR for team results when comparing him to Kevin Braswell? Braswell's teams were invited to 3 NITs and made the Sweet 16 once, while accomplishing nothing in the Big East except for playing a lot of overtime games. Not exactly a JWall caliber argument for quality individual play because of team success. I also thought it was odd to compare DSR's team accomplishments to Braswell's individual accomplishments. Also, DSR has a better shooting percentage from behind the arc (37.9% on three pointers) than Braswell did from the floor (36.9% on all field goal attempts).
|
|
|
Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 5, 2015 15:18:47 GMT -5
I wish GPHoya would weigh in on this. Or on anything for that matter.
|
|
playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 244
|
Post by playtyler on Mar 5, 2015 15:21:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. I was wrong about Braswell. He was not 8th all time in scoring. He was 7th when he left. He also has more 3 made 3 pointers than anyone in history of Georgetown. True he played for underperforming (Esherick) teams like DSR, but he did go for 30 in NIT win over UVA and led team to Sweet 16 and a couple upset wins in Big East tournament. Braswell was uneven at times. That is what makes the comparison to DSR such a good one. Though, again, DSR has not achieved anything close to what BRaswell achieved yet. Except a higher shooting percentage.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,438
|
Post by TC on Mar 5, 2015 15:27:34 GMT -5
P.S. my favorite running subplot on Hoyatalk is the anti-Balla sentiment. Really great work. He was one of the VERY few on this site with any real information about the program. He was the first and strongest on Josh Smith and several others. You're absolutely right, he was also the first and strongest on Nerlens Noel to GU!
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 5, 2015 15:29:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. I was wrong about Braswell. He was not 8th all time in scoring. He was 7th when he left. He also has more 3 made 3 pointers than anyone in history of Georgetown. True he played for underperforming (Esherick) teams like DSR, but he did go for 30 in NIT win over UVA and led team to Sweet 16 and a couple upset wins in Big East tournament. Braswell was uneven at times. That is what makes the comparison to DSR such a good one. Though, again, DSR has not achieved anything close to what BRaswell achieved yet. Except a higher shooting percentage. That's the key. Braswell had four full years and all of them as a starter. DSR likely (hopefully!) will pass him in scoring. He's on pace to do that. And he'll finish with a better three point percentage (and overall FG% percentage). Braswell was a volume shooter and frequently had extremely poor games on a percentage basis. He's obviously not going to catch him in assists or steals, but he'll only have played the point for two years (maybe one year if Tre plays most of the time next year), so the assists category would be a long-shot anyway and not a fair comparable. Braswell was a very good player, who deserved far better (certainly his teammate big Mike did), but let me put it this way: if it's not clear that DSR is better than Braswell by the end of his career, we're all going to be very disappointed.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Mar 5, 2015 15:33:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. I was wrong about Braswell. He was not 8th all time in scoring. He was 7th when he left. He also has more 3 made 3 pointers than anyone in history of Georgetown. True he played for underperforming (Esherick) teams like DSR, but he did go for 30 in NIT win over UVA and led team to Sweet 16 and a couple upset wins in Big East tournament. Braswell was uneven at times. That is what makes the comparison to DSR such a good one. Though, again, DSR has not achieved anything close to what BRaswell achieved yet. Except a higher shooting percentage. Putting aside the fact that getting 30 points in a NIT 3OT game isn't exactly a career defining accomplishment, the fun thing is that DSR dropped 32 against WVU last year in the NIT in regulation. I'm also willing to bet that there's almost nothing I can say to convince you that DSR is a better player than Braswell, but I'm not worried that anyone will attempt to make the Braswell > DSR argument with a straight face after next season (also kind of surprised anyone's willing to make it now, to be honest).
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Mar 5, 2015 15:36:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. I was wrong about Braswell. He was not 8th all time in scoring. He was 7th when he left. He also has more 3 made 3 pointers than anyone in history of Georgetown. True he played for underperforming (Esherick) teams like DSR, but he did go for 30 in NIT win over UVA and led team to Sweet 16 and a couple upset wins in Big East tournament. Braswell was uneven at times. That is what makes the comparison to DSR such a good one. Though, again, DSR has not achieved anything close to what BRaswell achieved yet. Except a higher shooting percentage. That's the key. Braswell had four full years and all of them as a starter. DSR likely (hopefully!) will pass him in scoring. He's on pace to do that. And he'll finish with a better three point percentage (and overall FG% percentage). Braswell was a volume shooter and frequently had extremely poor games on a percentage basis. He's obviously not going to catch him in assists or steals, but he only played the point for two years, so the assists category would be a long-shot. Braswell was a good player, who deserved far better (certainly his teammate big Mike did), but let me put it this way: if it's not clear that DSR is better than Braswell by the end of his career, we're all going to be very disappointed. He'll pass him in rebounds and three pointers made too.
|
|
playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 244
|
Post by playtyler on Mar 5, 2015 15:37:06 GMT -5
TC. Great reply. Exactly what I was talking about. Noel came down to us and Kentucky. We will lose that almost every time. Balla provided us all with information on how close we got there. ULtimately the out$ide forces led him to Kentucky. Lets blame Balla. Oh yeah, and please provide us all with that inside information you have provided the site, ever. The site is so much better with people like you criticizing a guy who was almost right on a Top 3 national recruit, than to have that guy regularly posting on the site and giving us the scoop on a 6'10" 350 pound McDonald's All American transferring here. I am sure you will fill that information void TC with all of your scoops. Please tell us one that you have given the site.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,438
|
Post by TC on Mar 5, 2015 15:41:16 GMT -5
Balla provided us with nonsense rumors. And he was a horrible judge of talent. And has said horrible stuff about our student athletes.
I don't provide factual scoops, but neither did he.
|
|
playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 244
|
Post by playtyler on Mar 5, 2015 15:46:50 GMT -5
Balla led us to leads on several players, assistant coaching changes (Cox), transfers in and out, well before they were announced. Josh Smith being the most recent/obvious one.
|
|