dense
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Post by dense on Feb 24, 2015 1:01:46 GMT -5
You win a bunch of conference titles you become the national brand of excellence. You mean like the 2013 Big East champions that established that national brand of excellence. No one remembers what happens in the BET unless you win the whole thing. Everyone remembers success or failure in the NCAAs. If you don't think a first round win as a higher seed would be a huge deal for this team, to say nothing of a possible Sweet Sixteen berth, you haven't been paying attention to what has gone on around here recently. What? Yes that's what I mean if you win the BET. I want to win it. People don't remember anyone but the final four teams in terms of the tourney unless you were a cinderella. Establishing yourself as the big dominant dog in your conference even when you don't finish first by winning the BET is important. The 2013 year I don't even get what you mean. I am talking titles, multiple titles!! The 80s teams even after Ewing left were winning BET or conference titles. We need to get back to that. Bowing out in the sweet sixteen does nothing. It makes you basically Marquette. A sweet sixteen bid may make people around here breathe relief but making the 2nd week of the tourney consistently will then breed apathy. So yes I have seen what goes around here and it's a bunch of schizophrenia.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 24, 2015 10:09:36 GMT -5
You mean like the 2013 Big East champions that established that national brand of excellence. No one remembers what happens in the BET unless you win the whole thing. Everyone remembers success or failure in the NCAAs. If you don't think a first round win as a higher seed would be a huge deal for this team, to say nothing of a possible Sweet Sixteen berth, you haven't been paying attention to what has gone on around here recently. What? Yes that's what I mean if you win the BET. I want to win it. People don't remember anyone but the final four teams in terms of the tourney unless you were a cinderella. Establishing yourself as the big dominant dog in your conference even when you don't finish first by winning the BET is important. The 2013 year I don't even get what you mean. I am talking titles, multiple titles!! The 80s teams even after Ewing left were winning BET or conference titles. We need to get back to that. Bowing out in the sweet sixteen does nothing. It makes you basically Marquette. A sweet sixteen bid may make people around here breathe relief but making the 2nd week of the tourney consistently will then breed apathy. So yes I have seen what goes around here and it's a bunch of schizophrenia. That's all generally true, but hard to be considered any kind of successful program when you lose to a double digit seed in the NCAAs every year.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Feb 24, 2015 10:16:40 GMT -5
I don't understand the point of this side discussion. Is any Hoya fan really not going to watch a BET game or care about the outcome -- just because NCAA tournament results are (much) more important?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 24, 2015 10:34:22 GMT -5
What? Yes that's what I mean if you win the BET. I want to win it. People don't remember anyone but the final four teams in terms of the tourney unless you were a cinderella. Establishing yourself as the big dominant dog in your conference even when you don't finish first by winning the BET is important. The 2013 year I don't even get what you mean. I am talking titles, multiple titles!! The 80s teams even after Ewing left were winning BET or conference titles. We need to get back to that. Bowing out in the sweet sixteen does nothing. It makes you basically Marquette. A sweet sixteen bid may make people around here breathe relief but making the 2nd week of the tourney consistently will then breed apathy. So yes I have seen what goes around here and it's a bunch of schizophrenia. That's all generally true, but hard to be considered any kind of successful program when you lose to a double digit seed in the NCAAs every year. No matter all the explanations/excuses/etc., there's no way of getting around that...
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 24, 2015 11:00:54 GMT -5
I don't understand the point of this side discussion. Is any Hoya fan really not going to watch a BET game or care about the outcome -- just because NCAA tournament results are (much) more important? Not to mention they are obviously not mutually exclusive and neither extreme perspective is right. It absolutely helps to get to the sweet 16, to win the BET, or to do both. End of story
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 24, 2015 11:03:58 GMT -5
You mean like the 2013 Big East champions that established that national brand of excellence. No one remembers what happens in the BET unless you win the whole thing. Everyone remembers success or failure in the NCAAs. If you don't think a first round win as a higher seed would be a huge deal for this team, to say nothing of a possible Sweet Sixteen berth, you haven't been paying attention to what has gone on around here recently. What? Yes that's what I mean if you win the BET. I want to win it. People don't remember anyone but the final four teams in terms of the tourney unless you were a cinderella. Establishing yourself as the big dominant dog in your conference even when you don't finish first by winning the BET is important. The 2013 year I don't even get what you mean. I am talking titles, multiple titles!! The 80s teams even after Ewing left were winning BET or conference titles. We need to get back to that. Bowing out in the sweet sixteen does nothing. It makes you basically Marquette. A sweet sixteen bid may make people around here breathe relief but making the 2nd week of the tourney consistently will then breed apathy. So yes I have seen what goes around here and it's a bunch of schizophrenia. Marquette's performance got Buzz Williams another job. It got WoJo to Marquette, and it got a top 10 class next year. Those things happen because Marquette gets to the sweet 16.
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dense
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dense on Feb 24, 2015 13:33:56 GMT -5
What? Yes that's what I mean if you win the BET. I want to win it. People don't remember anyone but the final four teams in terms of the tourney unless you were a cinderella. Establishing yourself as the big dominant dog in your conference even when you don't finish first by winning the BET is important. The 2013 year I don't even get what you mean. I am talking titles, multiple titles!! The 80s teams even after Ewing left were winning BET or conference titles. We need to get back to that. Bowing out in the sweet sixteen does nothing. It makes you basically Marquette. A sweet sixteen bid may make people around here breathe relief but making the 2nd week of the tourney consistently will then breed apathy. So yes I have seen what goes around here and it's a bunch of schizophrenia. Marquette's performance got Buzz Williams another job. It got WoJo to Marquette, and it got a top 10 class next year. Those things happen because Marquette gets to the sweet 16. So now Marquette is what we wish to step up to? My point was I don't see Marquette as above us now NCAA success without getting to a final four is fleeting. It can come and then be gone.i want to get back to being like UNC or Duke level program and by dominating the BE and winning a BET title is part of that. I think Big Dog is frustrated and I understand that but it's like seeing the cake in the store front window and not realizing someone had to take steps to make it.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Feb 24, 2015 13:36:30 GMT -5
Am I right that if PC goes 3-1 down the stretch, losing to Villanova but beating Butler, and Butler goes 3-1 (beating Georgetown), and Georgetown goes 2-1, thus giving all 3 teams 12 conference wins, then the seeds would be: 2. PC (by virtue of sweeping both GU and BU), 3. GU (splitting conference games with BU, better win vs. Nova) 4. BU?
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 24, 2015 13:43:29 GMT -5
Marquette's performance got Buzz Williams another job. It got WoJo to Marquette, and it got a top 10 class next year. Those things happen because Marquette gets to the sweet 16. So now Marquette is what we wish to step up to? My point was I don't see Marquette as above us now NCAA success without getting to a final four is fleeting. It can come and then be gone.i want to get back to being like UNC or Duke level program and by dominating the BE and winning a BET title is part of that. I think Big Dog is frustrated and I understand that but it's like seeing the cake in the store front window and not realizing someone had to take steps to make it. You are making it sound like Marquette is some also-ran that is beneath us. Yes, we may have more overall history than them, but their recent NCAA tournament performance has been significant to their cache. Obviously, teams that go to lots of final fours and win conference titles have more cache, but I disagree with your point that S16s are not a significant barometer of a good program. They are.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 24, 2015 13:45:08 GMT -5
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 24, 2015 13:54:01 GMT -5
Wow. Yeah, good call. I would have thought we'd certainly come in 4th by losing to Butler, but I suppose there are pathways for us to be 3rd with 12 wins.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 24, 2015 15:51:38 GMT -5
Am I right that if PC goes 3-1 down the stretch, losing to Villanova but beating Butler, and Butler goes 3-1 (beating Georgetown), and Georgetown goes 2-1, thus giving all 3 teams 12 conference wins, then the seeds would be: 2. PC (by virtue of sweeping both GU and BU), 3. GU (splitting conference games with BU, better win vs. Nova) 4. BU? Yes that is correct. We need Nova to beat Providence tonight, and then win out so we can get second.
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dense
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dense on Feb 24, 2015 18:54:19 GMT -5
So now Marquette is what we wish to step up to? My point was I don't see Marquette as above us now NCAA success without getting to a final four is fleeting. It can come and then be gone.i want to get back to being like UNC or Duke level program and by dominating the BE and winning a BET title is part of that. I think Big Dog is frustrated and I understand that but it's like seeing the cake in the store front window and not realizing someone had to take steps to make it. You are making it sound like Marquette is some also-ran that is beneath us. Yes, we may have more overall history than them, but their recent NCAA tournament performance has been significant to their cache. Obviously, teams that go to lots of final fours and win conference titles have more cache, but I disagree with your point that S16s are not a significant barometer of a good program. They are. I don't think they are and I don't think Marquette is under us. I consider then equals. By your definition you are saying they are above us. I don't think the ncaa tournament is the measure of success. That's where I differ from most people if you go 34-2 and lose in the 2nd round that season is great. Now for recruiting I think it obviously helps but what I was saying is for recruiting no one remember the team that goes to s16s and loses they only remember who was in the FF. I was saying that that barometer of s16s makes us Marquette which is not where I think we want to be considered. I think we are there now.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 25, 2015 0:05:03 GMT -5
That's where I differ from most people if you go 34-2 and lose in the 2nd round that season is great. This used to be true for Georgetown, just as it used to be true that winning the BET could make a season memorable even when we didn't go very far in the NCAAs. That was before the last few years of perpetual national humiliation. Georgetown's reputation has been hurt, and the only way to repair it is by avoiding tournament upsets and making a deep run. You are talking in the abstract about some team in general. For these Hoyas, it is all about the NCAAs. And yes, I will watch the BET, and it would be fun to win it. But it just doesn't mean much right now--especially because it isn't like we'd be beating out a half-dozen top 15 teams as in years past. But mostly because BET wins don't guarantee NCAA wins.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 25, 2015 0:24:21 GMT -5
You are making it sound like Marquette is some also-ran that is beneath us. Yes, we may have more overall history than them, but their recent NCAA tournament performance has been significant to their cache. Obviously, teams that go to lots of final fours and win conference titles have more cache, but I disagree with your point that S16s are not a significant barometer of a good program. They are. I don't think they are and I don't think Marquette is under us. I consider then equals. By your definition you are saying they are above us. I don't think the ncaa tournament is the measure of success. That's where I differ from most people if you go 34-2 and lose in the 2nd round that season is great. Now for recruiting I think it obviously helps but what I was saying is for recruiting no one remember the team that goes to s16s and loses they only remember who was in the FF. I was saying that that barometer of s16s makes us Marquette which is not where I think we want to be considered. I think we are there now. People also remember teams that are upset by double digit seeds every year in the NCAAs.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 25, 2015 12:02:31 GMT -5
In terms of getting a top 3 seed, would be nice if Marquette could find a way to win @ Butler tonight.
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Post by matersammich on Feb 25, 2015 12:08:48 GMT -5
In terms of getting a top 3 seed, would be nice if Marquette could find a way to win @ Butler tonight. At this point I'd rather have the good teams in our conference crush the bad teams to improve their NCAA seeding.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 25, 2015 12:20:46 GMT -5
We are that team that's picked to lose in the first round to some Cinderella until we change the narrative. I remember in the 90s it was the Sox (white & red) and my Cubbies that were cursed and couldn't win a WS. Well now it just my Cubbies. Nobody talks about either Sox team in that manner anymore. One team is fairly good and the other really hasn't done anything since winning the Ship. But it doesn't matter because once you win the narrative has changed. Fortunately for us, Gtown only needs to make it to the 2nd weekend and the narrative will change. My Cubbies on the other hand....... ?
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Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 25, 2015 12:47:53 GMT -5
In terms of getting a top 3 seed, would be nice if Marquette could find a way to win @ Butler tonight. At this point I'd rather have the good teams in our conference crush the bad teams to improve their NCAA seeding. That is a very fair point and I dont disagree. But I confess to being single-mindedly focused at the moment on getting the 2 or 3 seed in the BET. While I have no quarrel with those who say the NCAAs is what really matters, I also have a long-standing love affair with the BET. As those who have been to one in which the Hoyas were playing on Sunday afternoon or Saturday evening can attest, it can be a very memorable few days in NYC. Manhattan, MSG, basketball, beer, pizza, pretzels, old friends, laughs, wins, beer, memories. If we are playing in the finals (or even the semis in some years), it is almost guaranteed to be one of my favorite weekends of the year (despite the fact it has actually ended in such horrific heartbreak so many times). Just to reiterate and be clear, I would rather have success in the NCAA Tournament than the BET. But since the BET comes first, my plan is to hope we win that and then see what happens the next few weeks.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 25, 2015 14:41:56 GMT -5
At this point I'd rather have the good teams in our conference crush the bad teams to improve their NCAA seeding. That is a very fair point and I dont disagree. But I confess to being single-mindedly focused at the moment on getting the 2 or 3 seed in the BET. While I have no quarrel with those who say the NCAAs is what really matters, I also have a long-standing love affair with the BET. As those who have been to one in which the Hoyas were playing on Sunday afternoon or Saturday evening can attest, it can be a very memorable few days in NYC. Manhattan, MSG, basketball, beer, pizza, pretzels, old friends, laughs, wins, beer, memories. If we are playing in the finals (or even the semis in some years), it is almost guaranteed to be one of my favorite weekends of the year (despite the fact it has actually ended in such horrific heartbreak so many times). Just to reiterate and be clear, I would rather have success in the NCAA Tournament than the BET. But since the BET comes first, my plan is to hope we win that and then see what happens the next few weeks. Yeah, living in NYC, nothing really beats the BET experience.
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