TC
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Post by TC on Feb 4, 2015 13:40:19 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 5, 2015 14:34:18 GMT -5
TC - did not see this before. Outside the box, but I love it! I can already envision the James Bond/Jason Bourne type chase scenes that could result! |
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 5, 2015 19:14:38 GMT -5
Small gondola types would never work, they'd all get too dirty and would become a novelty place to do drugs. If they were willing to do large tram styles where there is an operator, that could work. For example, the one at Jackson Hole ski resort can hold up to 100 people. Have one leaving every 10-30 minutes and it could work.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 5, 2015 19:30:22 GMT -5
(Standard disclaimer: I am an occasional participant in the Georgetown BID’s efforts around transportation issues, so I’m indebted to Joe for many free breakfasts, among other things) Joe Sternlieb is an extremely smart and savvy guy, so it’s worth keeping in mind that his continued advocacy for the Georgetown gondola – which strikes many people as a ridiculous idea on its face – is probably more multidimensional and strategic that it seems. Setting aside the purely transportational merits of a gondola to Rosslyn (and there are clearly some, given how disastrous Key Bridge traffic often is), there is no question that it is an out-of-the-ordinary, attention-grabbing idea, both in concept and (were it to ever actually become reality) in execution. Insofar as Joe’s job is to promote the brand of Georgetown as a commercial destination, the fact that he’s gotten more publicity and press for Georgetown out of this single idea than it has gotten in years should be acknowledged as quite an accomplishment. There are now lots of known and branded neighborhoods in DC, many of which are considered cooler and more of a destination than Georgetown is. In the competition for visitors (and, hence, shoppers and diners), publicity can have real value of its own, irrespective of the likelihood of a particular project’s realization. The other smart thing that I think (purely personal opinion here) Joe is doing is priming the pump for necessary discussions that have long been kicked down the road, both in Georgetown and in the DC region more broadly. I’m referring here specifically to decisions on land use and transportation. As he put it in The Washington Post the other day: “if it was as easy to do a development in Georgetown as it is to put up a strip center on Route 29, Georgetown would look like Route 29.” Also: “If it was easy, I’m not sure it would be better, but just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it won’t happen.” Proposing something like the gondola gets people thinking and talking. They start to understand the benefits of such a venture – it literally soars above traffic, so it avoids having to deal with issues of sharing right-of-way. At the same time, it has some potential drawbacks, like impact to the skyline, operating costs, etc. Just getting people to think about transportation systems as a set of conscious, actual choices, as opposed to “that’s just the way things are” is important – especially in the context that, unlike around Route 29 and other such environs, you can’t simply decide to widen roads ad infinitum (nor should you want to, I’d argue – there’s a reason why places like that are soul-crushing hellscapes, while Georgetown attracts millions of visitors per year). To me, the logical extension of that train of thought is: well, if the congestion is terrible and the main benefit of something like a gondola is dedicated right-of-way, and there’s no way to add more room for more cars, shouldn’t we be pursuing solutions that have that same benefit of being able to avoid traffic? At that point, you get to the golden ring of the Georgetown 2028 Plan: a Georgetown metro station (or two!). And once you think about transportation systems as a serious of conscious choices and decisions, you begin to understand that the far-out timelines that WMATA is resigned to (2040!) are products of those choices and decisions, rather than some inherent state of affairs. Many other countries, far less wealthy than ours, fund and build rail lines (both above and below ground) in a fraction of the time that we do. Even if Joe’s efforts don’t, ultimately, result in an either a gondola or a Georgetown metro station being built much more quickly, I think it does drive the conversation in a positive direction. |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 5, 2015 20:15:56 GMT -5
In a "village" where it takes a civic board to approve a change as simple as the paint color on a resident's windowsill, the thought of this sweeping across the landscape is too much to expect:  |
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Feb 5, 2015 22:37:01 GMT -5
Gondola idea has been presented in San Diego. Novelty, tourist attraction, and other ideas like that were the reason instead of traffic. Hard to imagine it working but I agree that it draws attention to the issue and start conversation. Kind of like a vacuum sealed tube transporting people from LA to SF.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 6, 2015 11:52:51 GMT -5
Gondola, schmondola. We all know what would work best.  |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 6, 2015 13:01:46 GMT -5
In a "village" where it takes a civic board to approve a change as simple as the paint color on a resident's windowsill, the thought of this sweeping across the landscape is too much to expect: Ironically, paint scheme is one of the very few things that is NOT under the purview of the various busybody entities who reign over Georgetown. That's how we ended up with the famous Georgetown graffiti house at 3320 P, although the protest manifesto that used to accompany it appears to be gone. It's deeply ironic that the Old Georgetown Board can delay the Thompson Center by months due to inane debates about mullions and whether the design looks sufficiently "like a big ol' box" to look like a gymnasium, but Georgetown could paint the thing matte jet black if it wanted to, and no one would be able to stop them. Anyway, the local resident groups have been non-committal on the gondola idea, but no one thus far as expressed any "over my dead body" sort of opposition. I think this is largely because 1) None of them live within line of sight of the thing; and 2) They get stuck in Key Bridge traffic as much as anyone else, and so are willing to entertain ideas that could get (other people's) cars off the street. The aesthetic overlords at the Old Georgetown Board and the Commission on Fine Arts may feel differently, of course. On the other hand, they have indicated that they are much more open to new things, as opposed to modification of old things: |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 6, 2015 13:35:30 GMT -5
“Historic preservation,” Luebke adds, “means protecting what’s actually historic. It doesn’t mean you have to make new stuff seem old. It’s not about trying to create a false history.” Clearly this person is not a member of the ANC.  But if you really want to stir up the transportation dialogue: how about this: reroute most vehicular traffic off the Key and onto the TR Bridge, thus diverting vehicular traffic into Georgetown on the east side up from the Watergate. With the extra capacity, build a streetcar line from Rosslyn over the bridge to connect with the long-discussed streetcar line. Likely? No. But at some point the oldest bridge in the District needs an overhaul and the traffic needs to be repositioned anyway. |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 6, 2015 14:07:30 GMT -5
“Historic preservation,” Luebke adds, “means protecting what’s actually historic. It doesn’t mean you have to make new stuff seem old. It’s not about trying to create a false history.” Clearly this person is not a member of the ANC. But if you really want to stir up the transportation dialogue: how about this: reroute most vehicular traffic off the Key and onto the TR Bridge, thus diverting vehicular traffic into Georgetown on the east side up from the Watergate. With the extra capacity, build a streetcar line from Rosslyn over the bridge to connect with the long-discussed streetcar line. Likely? No. But at some point the oldest bridge in the District needs an overhaul and the traffic needs to be repositioned anyway. Hey, remember, OGB and CFA allowed the addition of Lauinger to the Georgetown skyline! They haven't done any truly in-depth studies on the matter, but I do seem to recall hearing that an initial assessment found that Key Bridge in its current state could not support a streetcar (likely due to discovered "failing post-tensioned deck slab which was installed in 1985 and significant concrete deterioration to the portions of the concrete structure below the deck slab" citation). You're very much correct that Key Bridge needs an overhaul. In fact, one is kicking off quite soon... www.bizjournals.com/washington/blog/2014/04/key-bridge-to-undergo-two-year-21m-overhaul.htmlRealistically, though, the neighborhood groups will continue to fight anything that could affect their own use of cars in or around Georgetown, be it sidewalk widening (those 8-foot sidewalks are historic, insists Ron Lewis!), dedicating lanes to transit, changing the rush-hour parking restrictions, etc. etc. We'll have to wait at least until the current generation of leaders has gone off to that great big 'urban village' in the sky before progress is likely. That's why they're all on board with a Metro station now - it doesn't ask them to infringe on their car use, while promising that other people will use Metro and remove themselves from their way. |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 13, 2015 10:06:25 GMT -5
Lots more gondola discussion over at Greater Greater Washington: greatergreaterwashington.org/post/25752/ask-ggw-is-a-georgetown-gondola-practical/There are several urban gondola systems that have come online over the last few years, most notably in Medellin and La Paz. Seattle looks like it might be the first American city to build a gondola over city streets, with a credible plan for a privately financed line connecting it's waterfront to its convention district. If the key factor is "over city streets" then the Telluride gondola fits the bill: Joe always says that there's a second public transportation-type gondola system out in Colorado ski country. I assume he's talking about the Avon Riverfront Express gondola, which is also free, operated by the local public transit system, and goes over some city (well, town) streets. |
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 13, 2015 12:17:32 GMT -5
Lots more gondola discussion over at Greater Greater Washington: greatergreaterwashington.org/post/25752/ask-ggw-is-a-georgetown-gondola-practical/There are several urban gondola systems that have come online over the last few years, most notably in Medellin and La Paz. Seattle looks like it might be the first American city to build a gondola over city streets, with a credible plan for a privately financed line connecting it's waterfront to its convention district. If the key factor is "over city streets" then the Telluride gondola fits the bill: Joe always says that there's a second public transportation-type gondola system out in Colorado ski country. I assume he's talking about the Avon Riverfront Express gondola, which is also free, operated by the local public transit system, and goes over some city (well, town) streets.Can you imagine how many people WMATA could kill with a gondola system? |
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Feb 13, 2015 13:59:08 GMT -5
Wow. I definitly need to check out that Telluride/Mountain Village gondola. Views are so great that they are 365 degrees! Kinda like "it goes to 11."
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jan 29, 2016 14:43:30 GMT -5
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 2, 2016 14:41:12 GMT -5
Still have concerns but Gondolas do move people and would be more novel then a metro stop. I'd be concerned with the winds that come whipping down the Potomac, could be a deal breaker.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Feb 2, 2016 17:02:07 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 13, 2022 19:32:05 GMT -5
The Gondola Lives!!!
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 13, 2022 19:53:46 GMT -5
All kinds of urbanist comedy in this article, including proposing a "fast bus connection originating at Farragut Square, running along K Street NW, Pennsylvania Avenue NW, and M Street NW", or the rejected option extending the Blue Line, noting that "WMATA is still weighing this option". Really?
One of the problems with the whole concept is that's it's not a transit solution but a tourist solution. Yes, GU employees would benefit, but the number of people exiting the Orange Line that will board a gondola to walk along M Street is negligible. And one paragraph of this article states the obvious: it's going nowhere in the rat's nest of bureaucracies:
"As for next steps, Greg Billing, Georgetown BID transportation director tells GGWash that the coalition would begin pursuing a National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) compliant study looking into the project’s impact on the natural and built environment. A gondola, for example, would involve crossing state lines, a navigable body of water, National Airport’s flight path, two different national parks, and a national historic district. Billing estimates that a NEPA study would take 1-2 years and cost anywhere from $500,000 to one million. That study, as the coalition’s survey explains is the case for the whole project, has no funding sources or project sponsors at this time."
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 13, 2022 20:11:22 GMT -5
Can you say “one more traffic solution for the campus arena”?  |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 13, 2022 20:27:17 GMT -5
All kinds of urbanist comedy in this article, including proposing a "fast bus connection originating at Farragut Square, running along K Street NW, Pennsylvania Avenue NW, and M Street NW", or the rejected option extending the Blue Line, noting that "WMATA is still weighing this option". Really? I mean, the separated Blue Line is at least hypothetically still under consideration, even if we're still at least a decade from shovels in ground. As a reminder: Also, the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority recently released their updated list of 429 transportation projects. Included on that list: "Metrorail Blue/Silver Line, $20 billion: Realignment of either Metro’s Blue Line or Silver Line between Rosslyn and Union Station, via M Street NW in Georgetown, with a second rail tunnel beneath the Potomac River and a second Rossyln Metrorail station." As for the other one, while M Street remains a third rail, the transformation of the lobbyist corridor of K Street is advancing: www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/04/07/dc-k-street-transitway/ |
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