Trey Mourning Redshirt?

[NCHoya]

Then you have to assume, III has decided to move Mourning up the depth chart. Otherwise there is no reasonable explanation for effectively burning his redshirt by playing the final 3 minutes of garbage time against SHU. Perhaps we have seen the last of Hayes on the court this season?

Regardless, dumb move in my opinion by III to burn his redshirt. You want to have as many options as possible in roster management.

[njhoya78]

I agree with you that it appears that Mourning has leapfrogged over Hayes on the depth chart. I would not characterize it as a "dumb move by JT3", NCHoya, as you have. On a cost-benefit analysis, using Mourning as the third option at center for the balance of this season outweighs the potential future benefit of roster management options.

Maybe, in retrospect (and this is extreme hindsight), Hayes should have been redshirted for a season. Too late now, and really not worthy of further discussion or Monday-morning quarterbacking (or the basketball equivalent thereof).

[hoyasaxa2003]

I think part of the problem here is that everybody is looking at the redshirt only in terms of basketball. We are completely ignoring Trey's own feelings on the issue. Maybe Trey doesn't want to redshirt - maybe he wants to be on a path to graduate in 4 years, and then move on (I realize he could play a 5th year and still graduate in 4). Maybe his father and family agree. We have no idea.

The truth is we really know very little about this situation, and the reasoning behind it. And, if history is any guidance, we will not find out anytime soon.

[SFHoya99]

Feb 12, 2015 12:46:53 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

Then you have to assume, III has decided to move Mourning up the depth chart. Otherwise there is no reasonable explanation for effectively burning his redshirt by playing the final 3 minutes of garbage time against SHU. Perhaps we have seen the last of Hayes on the court this season?

Regardless, dumb move in my opinion by III to burn his redshirt. You want to have as many options as possible in roster management.

Burning his redshirt? You mean the redshirt that I'm pretty sure only existed on this board?

[Nevada Hoya]

Basketball is very different than track and field, when it comes to redshirting. Almost every track and field athlete goes through at least one redshirt season. The main reason is in track and field there are three seasons: cross country, indoor, and outdoor. So often an athlete is redshirted one of those seasons in a year. Also, injuries build up with the mileage they do and medical redshirts are also in the equation.

So with no hope for Trey to redshirt this season, I hope he is able to get more exposure and be a great asset to the team.

[NCHoya]

Feb 12, 2015 12:54:44 GMT -5 njhoya78 said:

I agree with you that it appears that Mourning has leapfrogged over Hayes on the depth chart. I would not characterize it as a "dumb move by JT3", NCHoya, as you have. On a cost-benefit analysis, using Mourning as the third option at center for the balance of this season outweighs the potential future benefit of roster management options.

Maybe, in retrospect (and this is extreme hindsight), Hayes should have been redshirted for a season. Too late now, and really not worthy of further discussion or Monday-morning quarterbacking (or the basketball equivalent thereof).

Just to clarify, I do not see how using Mourning as the third option at center for the next 10 games is a better value than having Mourning for an entire extra year as a redshirt senior. His value at that time will be so much greater than his value over the next 10 or so games as a back-up to the back-up.

Having said that hoyasaxa2003 is likely right. Mourning may not want to redshirt and has bigger plans after graduating in 4 years than playing Hoyas basketball. In that case not a "dumb" move by III but one that should have been made a lot sooner.

Granted, I am probably one of Hayes biggest critics (to me never was a D1 player), so I would have rather seen Mourning play over him from the start if the redshirt was never an option.

[professorhoya]

Feb 12, 2015 12:46:53 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

Then you have to assume, III has decided to move Mourning up the depth chart. Otherwise there is no reasonable explanation for effectively burning his redshirt by playing the final 3 minutes of garbage time against SHU. Perhaps we have seen the last of Hayes on the court this season?

I think that's exactly what it is. Bradley Hayes was disastrous against Seton Hall, which forced JTIII to go to the small lineup. Going forward, Mourning will be the 3rd big if we are in that situation again in the future or in the tournament.

It also gives you Hayes and Mourning as 3rd options based on matchups and performance.

[NCHoya]

Feb 12, 2015 13:01:39 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Feb 12, 2015 12:46:53 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

Then you have to assume, III has decided to move Mourning up the depth chart. Otherwise there is no reasonable explanation for effectively burning his redshirt by playing the final 3 minutes of garbage time against SHU. Perhaps we have seen the last of Hayes on the court this season?

Regardless, dumb move in my opinion by III to burn his redshirt. You want to have as many options as possible in roster management.

Burning his redshirt? You mean the redshirt that I'm pretty sure only existed on this board?

Well that is the name of this thread, right? We can only speculate on stuff like this and it is a message board. If we only commented on hard facts, where is the fun in that? I made my assumption he could be getting redshirted since he had played a total of 9 minutes this season and more importantly no appearances since Dec 13th. He also seems like a good candidate for a redshirt given his size and further need to develop. It is not like III is against redshirting, he has stated several times he wishes he could have redshirted Roy.

Anyway, it was a curious move and ended the speculation, so I guess that is it. If Trey was not in favor of redshirting, it makes perfect sense by III.

[professorhoya]

Feb 12, 2015 13:36:40 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

Feb 12, 2015 12:54:44 GMT -5 njhoya78 said:

I agree with you that it appears that Mourning has leapfrogged over Hayes on the depth chart. I would not characterize it as a "dumb move by JT3", NCHoya, as you have. On a cost-benefit analysis, using Mourning as the third option at center for the balance of this season outweighs the potential future benefit of roster management options.

Maybe, in retrospect (and this is extreme hindsight), Hayes should have been redshirted for a season. Too late now, and really not worthy of further discussion or Monday-morning quarterbacking (or the basketball equivalent thereof).

Just to clarify, I do not see how using Mourning as the third option at center for the next 10 games is a better value than having Mourning for an entire extra year as a redshirt senior. His value at that time will be so much greater than his value over the next 10 or so games as a back-up to the back-up.

Having said that hoyasaxa2003 is likely right. Mourning may not want to redshirt and has bigger plans after graduating in 4 years than playing Hoyas basketball. In that case not a "dumb" move by III but one that should have been made a lot sooner.

Granted, I am probably one of Hayes biggest critics (to me never was a D1 plater), so I would have rather seen Mourning play over him from the start if the redshirt was never an option.

I think they had hopes for Hayes at the beginning of the season but he looks clueless out there, can't block shots and airballs layups. I think III's seen enough and determined that for the good of this year's team and in order to give it the best shot at success that Mourning will be more valuable than Hayes.

[jwp91]

Just curious...who was the last GU freshman who redshirted and ended up playing 4 additional years?

I don't think this is part of JT3's strategy.

[RockawayHoya]

Feb 12, 2015 14:15:34 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

Just curious...who was the last GU freshman who redshirted and ended up playing 4 additional years?

I don't think this is part of JT3's strategy.

Aaron Bowen.

[Buckets]

Feb 12, 2015 14:20:31 GMT -5 RockawayHoya said:

Feb 12, 2015 14:15:34 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

Just curious...who was the last GU freshman who redshirted and ended up playing 4 additional years?

I don't think this is part of JT3's strategy.

Aaron Bowen.

That was medical, though. He was playing 2010-11, the idea was definitely not to redshirt him for the season when he came in.

Most elite teams don't do it. Based on the learning curve of the offense, I think it could work better for us than most (like the example of Virginia's defense mentioned above).

That said, I still don't think it should be part of the strategy. Very raw bigs who need strength and conditioning are the best candidates, the problem is if you do it initially, you have to be pretty sure they'll be good on the back end and not just eating a scholarship. Would you have wanted Ayegba on scholarship here a fifth year (this is rhetorical -- the staff already answered no for you). Based on what you've seen so far, would you rather have an open scholarship for 2016-17 or a fifth year of Hayes?

[wahoohoya]

Feb 12, 2015 14:39:53 GMT -5 Buckets said:

Feb 12, 2015 14:20:31 GMT -5 RockawayHoya said:

Aaron Bowen.

That was medical, though. He was playing 2010-11, the idea was definitely not to redshirt him for the season when he came in.

Most elite teams don't do it. Based on the learning curve of the offense, I think it could work better for us than most (like the example of Virginia's defense mentioned above).

That said, I still don't think it should be part of the strategy. Very raw bigs who need strength and conditioning are the best candidates, the problem is if you do it initially, you have to be pretty sure they'll be good on the back end and not just eating a scholarship. Would you have wanted Ayegba on scholarship here a fifth year (this is rhetorical -- the staff already answered no for you). Based on what you've seen so far, would you rather have an open scholarship for 2016-17 or a fifth year of Hayes?

If a guy that was redshirted doesn't develop, he can always transfer after his 4th year (hopefully without having to sit out a year if he has graduated), right? Either way, not sure how you are stuck with a 5th year player if he isn't able to contribute on the court. I don't think this is unfair to the player - you're honoring essentially a four year commitment and doing what you think is best to develop him.

[njhoya78]

Most athletic scholarships are granted for one year, and thereafter are renewed. It is not a four year commitment. That is why some coaches (not JT3) run players off after a year or two, so that they can use that slotted scholarship for another scholar-athlete. We like to think of it as a four year commitment, and it is that at most schools, but it really isn't.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Feb 12, 2015 13:40:53 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Feb 12, 2015 12:46:53 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

Then you have to assume, III has decided to move Mourning up the depth chart. Otherwise there is no reasonable explanation for effectively burning his redshirt by playing the final 3 minutes of garbage time against SHU. Perhaps we have seen the last of Hayes on the court this season?

I think that's exactly what it is. Bradley Hayes was disastrous against Seton Hall, which forced JTIII to go to the small lineup. Going forward, Mourning will be the 3rd big if we are in that situation again in the future or in the tournament.

It also gives you Hayes and Mourning as 3rd options based on matchups and performance.

I just don't understand how you could imply that Mourning has moved ahead of Hayes on the depth chart. Mourning came in during garbage time in a game where Hayes performed poorly. If you recall, Mourning had been in a suit earlier this season because of concussion-like symptons (http://www.csnwashington.com/ncaa/georgetown-hoyas-trey-mourning-concussion-unavailable-big-east-battle)

Thus, isn't it simply feasible that Mourning might have been "out" for a while, and that's why he hasn't played garbage time recently? Hayes himself has already had 12 DNP games, and of the remaining games where he did play, in 8/12 games he played 3 minutes or less.

My point is that even if Mourning leaped-frogged Mourning on the depth chart, he barely would play anyway. And, I would be very skeptical that JTIII has totally given up on Hayes as the third option based on Hayes' 5 minutes against Seton Hall, and Mourning's.

Listen, I think Mourning will likely be a better player than Hayes, but it's amazing what conclusions people come up with based on 2 minutes of garbage time.

[wahoohoya]

Feb 12, 2015 16:05:24 GMT -5 njhoya78 said:

Most athletic scholarships are granted for one year, and thereafter are renewed. It is not a four year commitment. That is why some coaches (not JT3) run players off after a year or two, so that they can use that slotted scholarship for another scholar-athlete. We like to think of it as a four year commitment, and it is that at most schools, but it really isn't.

Thanks for clarification. I understand it isn't technically a four year commitment, but I would like to think that JT3 would let a player stay for four years regardless of performance on the court, as long as the player is fulfilling the other expectations that go along with the scholarship (i.e. academics). Beyond four years, I don't think it's wrong to cut ties with a player that hasn't developed enough to make a meaningful contribution on the court. So the entire notion of not wanting to waste a scholarship for an extra 5th year seems like a non-issue to me.

[skyhoya]

sometimes III has to do the politically correct thing.

[FLHoya]

Feb 12, 2015 13:01:39 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Burning his redshirt? You mean the redshirt that I'm pretty sure only existed on this board?

This thread combines two of my favorite Hoyatalk tropes: turning somebody's completely hypothetical speculation/question into an assumed fact, and placing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much emphasis on the stuff that happens in garbage time of a blowout.

The legend of Moses Ayegba after all got its start partly from two uncontested layups in a non-conference blowout, so I'm optimistic that if two seasons from now Trey randomly has 4 blocks when we're playing at the Carrier Dome, I'll remember where I was when I was half-watching as he cherry picked an easy block from behind in the dying seconds of the Seton Hall game when Isaiah Whitehead and Sterling Gibbs did a poor man's Eddie Griffin-Ty Shine act.

[Deleted]

georgetown.247sports.com/Bolt/Alonzo-Mourning-wants-Trey-to-stay-at-Georgetown-for-4-years-36462701