nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 30, 2015 10:35:04 GMT -5
Nobody here may like this but what about Ewing? You're right. I don't like it. Although if he hires a staff of Oakley, Starks, and Anthony Mason, I may have to become a St. Johns fan.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 30, 2015 10:43:20 GMT -5
I think Patrick would already have been a college head coach if he had wanted to be a college head coach; he has had his eyes set on an NBA head coaching job for quite a while, without success.
Back when Hurley turned down Rutgers, the Scarlet Knight job was not exactly primo. You may remember that RU was ready to give the job to Jay Wright, until Villanova fired Steve Lappas in order to keep Wright, then a VU assistant, in the program. The St. John's job still has some panache, although clearly given the choice between SJU and a Big Ten program not named Northwestern, there is a lot more money and better facilities for the B1G program. I think that Hurley would consider St. John's now; the next hire at SJU, I agree, is of major importance to both the school and the conference.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 30, 2015 10:44:53 GMT -5
Here's a dose of negativity for this thread: Assuming Obekpa (probably a second round pick) and Jordan (not very interested in school) leave with Lavin, this team is totally bereft of talent. It's a program that produced most of its success 30 years ago in a city that produced its most notable basketball talents before then. This is an enormous rebuild and a huge uphill battle, and I'm failing to see why it's a desirable job. You can call Donovan, Smart, Archie Miller, Gregg Marshall, etc. like they suggested on the Johnny Jungle thread, but that's going nowhere. Howland wouldn't be terrible but that that feels a lot like a slightly improved version of Purnell to DePaul. It's unlikely Mark Jackson's interested and his reputation at Golden State was unwilling to hire good assistants and very aloof, which doesn't exactly lend itself to recruiting success. Danny Hurley turned down Rutgers two years ago, so I don't even think there's a guarantee he's interested. St. John's will become a stepping stone job - which is fine. That's basically what Xavier is too and they have had enormous success over the past decade. Johnnies aren't going to attract a name coach, but they can still be a solid program and contend in the conference every few years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 10:50:39 GMT -5
Think a lot of Good Coaches would be interested in St Johns… I would have a hard time believing otherwise
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 30, 2015 10:57:44 GMT -5
Think a lot of Good Coaches would be interested in St Johns… I would have a hard time believing otherwise I think so too - they can certainly hire a good coach, just as Xavier has run through an impressive string of them. I just think it would take extenuating circumstances for St. John's at this point to hire a "name" coach
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Jan 30, 2015 11:29:26 GMT -5
Think a lot of Good Coaches would be interested in St Johns… I would have a hard time believing otherwise I think so too - they can certainly hire a good coach, just as Xavier has run through an impressive string of them. I just think it would take extenuating circumstances for St. John's at this point to hire a "name" coach I mean, there's nothing preventing them from hiring a "good" coach, the problems are that: (1) There's nothing in the last 20 years of SJU hiring that indicates they're capable of replicating what Xavier's done (2) Like I said with Danny Hurley, I don't think it's that clear-cut that SJU is a better job than a successful A10 team. So you're now into the level talking about guys like Masiello in the MAAC or Bobby Hurley with two seasons of MAC coaching experience. (3) Like you said, this is really a stepping stone job. So if a good coach comes in and somehow turns this team around by 2017-18, they're probably out the door and SJU's back here again in a few years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 11:33:35 GMT -5
Think a lot of Good Coaches would be interested in St Johns… I would have a hard time believing otherwise I think so too - they can certainly hire a good coach, just as Xavier has run through an impressive string of them. I just think it would take extenuating circumstances for St. John's at this point to hire a "name" coach Well I guess define “Name Coach?” Is Ben Howland or Masiello a name coach? I think both would take that job today imo
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 30, 2015 11:35:13 GMT -5
I think so too - they can certainly hire a good coach, just as Xavier has run through an impressive string of them. I just think it would take extenuating circumstances for St. John's at this point to hire a "name" coach Well I guess define “Name Coach?” Is Ben Howland or Masiello a name coach? I think both would take that job today imo I think Howland would fall under the extenuating circumstances category - as in, he was disgraced at his last job and needs to regain his good name. I have no idea who Masiello is, so at least for me he's not a name coach.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 30, 2015 11:42:06 GMT -5
Calling Howland disgraced is a major overstatement. He did go to three final fours at UCLA and he coached a litany of stars and NBA all stars. The Reeves Nelson stuff obviously wasn't flattering, but disgraced is overkill.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 11:42:23 GMT -5
I think so too - they can certainly hire a good coach, just as Xavier has run through an impressive string of them. I just think it would take extenuating circumstances for St. John's at this point to hire a "name" coach I mean, there's nothing preventing them from hiring a "good" coach, the problems are that: (1) There's nothing in the last 20 years of SJU hiring that indicates they're capable of replicating what Xavier's done (2) Like I said with Danny Hurley, I don't think it's that clear-cut that SJU is a better job than a successful A10 team. So you're now into the level talking about guys like Masiello in the MAAC or Bobby Hurley with two seasons of MAC coaching experience. (3) Like you said, this is really a stepping stone job. So if a good coach comes in and somehow turns this team around by 2017-18, they're probably out the door and SJU's back here again in a few years. Think St Johns would prefer Masiello over Danny, also think that him turning down Rutgers has little to do with St Johns.. Rutgers isn’t considered a good job, St Johns is. St Johns is a much better job than Rhode Island IMO. Much greater history and located in the heart of the City. RI is 4th in their league and they’re not even on the bubble,…
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 30, 2015 11:44:40 GMT -5
I don't think it's necessarily a stepping stone job. If you get St. John's back to a perennial NCAA team (which is the only way it could be a stepping-stone to something better), you'd then be the head coach of a program that is in the national eye due to its location, present success, and history. This isn't Seton Hall or Providence, which (no matter how well they do within reason) there is a limit to the amount of notoriety they'll receive. Those are stepping stone jobs, unfortunately. (Obviously, Provy hopes that the guy they have now won't move on because he has other ties to the area. But he's sure to receive very enticing offers from BCS conference schools.)
I think an A-10 coach that is ambitious to move to a higher profile place and has ties to the NYC area (read: a Hurley; not necessarily a Smart) would be enthused by the prospect.
Does that mean a successful coach wouldn't move on? No, of course not. But I don't think it's pre-ordained.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 11:52:32 GMT -5
Well I guess define “Name Coach?” Is Ben Howland or Masiello a name coach? I think both would take that job today imo I think Howland would fall under the extenuating circumstances category - as in, he was disgraced at his last job and needs to regain his good name. I have no idea who Masiello is, so at least for me he's not a name coach. Don’t think Howland was disgraced, but he’s far from the only one. Seth Greenburg, Stan Heath, Frank Haith etc but Masiello would be a better hire than all of those... Masiello is a name coach in Basketball circles. He would hit the ground running at St Johns..
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 30, 2015 12:03:52 GMT -5
I think Howland would fall under the extenuating circumstances category - as in, he was disgraced at his last job and needs to regain his good name. I have no idea who Masiello is, so at least for me he's not a name coach. Don’t think Howland was disgraced, but he’s far from the only one. Seth Greenburg, Stan Heath, Frank Haith etc but Masiello would be a better hire than all of those... Masiello is a name coach in Basketball circles. He would hit the ground running at St Johns.. They're not having a very good year this year, though. Obviously, that doesn't mean he wouldn't be the right guy, an excellent fit, etc. But it's a lot harder to hire a coach with an uncertain track record (one NCAA bid in four years) when he's coming off a poor year in which he's hovering at .500 in his middling conference. Again, that's not to say he's not a great coach or the right guy (lord knows I don't know anything about their team this year aside from their record). But it's just hard to pull the trigger on it in that circumstance. Our hiring of JTIII is some sort of example in terms of a moribund program. Coach had been at Princeton for four years and had two NCAA bids and an NIT bid in that time (and was coming off a successful season).
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 30, 2015 12:05:55 GMT -5
Just to review Masiello's history a little, for those who may have forgotten: he coached Manhattan last season to a great run in the NCAA tournament, and was actually hired to replace Stan Heath at South Florida. USF rescinded the offer/hire when it became public within days of hiring that Masiello, who had been a walk-on under his mentor, Rick Pitinto, at Kentucky, had falsified his curriculum vitae to reflect that he had graduated from UK; he was a few credits short. South Florida backed off and hired Orlando Antigua, and Manhattan suspended Masiello last summer while they did did their own review of Masiello's background; they predicated his return to the Jaspers on his completing the course requirements for his bachelors degree. Masiello did so during the summer, and has done a nice job again at Manhattan. I think he'd be a really good choice for St. John's, and I have no doubt that he would grab the opportunity, if offered.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jan 30, 2015 12:11:33 GMT -5
Two words for the St. John's athletic department.
Shaka. Smart.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 30, 2015 12:12:16 GMT -5
I think Howland would fall under the extenuating circumstances category - as in, he was disgraced at his last job and needs to regain his good name. I have no idea who Masiello is, so at least for me he's not a name coach. Don’t think Howland was disgraced, but he’s far from the only one. Seth Greenburg, Stan Heath, Frank Haith etc but Masiello would be a better hire than all of those... Masiello is a name coach in Basketball circles. He would hit the ground running at St Johns.. Ah, right. The Manhattan guy. Probably a very good coach - exactly the type I was describing previously, like the Xavier coaches. Remember Matta left Butler to come to Xavier. Masiello may be more loyal to St. John's than others, as he's a New York guy. I hope he is their next Looie. But that was a long time ago. And I don't think I'm a lone wolf on categorizing it as a stepping stone job. As for Howland, if not disgrace, then certainly tarnished. Remember this SI story? www.si.com/more-sports/2012/02/29/ucla
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 12:25:01 GMT -5
Don’t think Howland was disgraced, but he’s far from the only one. Seth Greenburg, Stan Heath, Frank Haith etc but Masiello would be a better hire than all of those... Masiello is a name coach in Basketball circles. He would hit the ground running at St Johns.. Ah, right. The Manhattan guy. Probably a very good coach - exactly the type I was describing previously, like the Xavier coaches. Remember Matta left Butler to come to Xavier. Masiello may be more loyal to St. John's than others, as he's a New York guy. I hope he is their next Looie. But that was a long time ago. And I don't think I'm a lone wolf on categorizing it as a stepping stone job. As for Howland, if not disgrace, then certainly tarnished. Remember this SI story? www.si.com/more-sports/2012/02/29/uclaEven if you want to disagree about Howland there’s still 3 other name coaches that would jump at the opportunity. Masiello would still be a better higher than all of those guys though imo. Good Hungry coach that can recruit, plays an exciting style, and knows the Tri State area
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 12:25:37 GMT -5
Two words for the St. John's athletic department. Shaka. Smart. LOL...
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 30, 2015 12:45:39 GMT -5
Two words for the St. John's athletic department. Shaka. Smart. LOL... It's nice to dream.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 30, 2015 13:15:44 GMT -5
Ah, right. The Manhattan guy. Probably a very good coach - exactly the type I was describing previously, like the Xavier coaches. Remember Matta left Butler to come to Xavier. Masiello may be more loyal to St. John's than others, as he's a New York guy. I hope he is their next Looie. But that was a long time ago. And I don't think I'm a lone wolf on categorizing it as a stepping stone job. As for Howland, if not disgrace, then certainly tarnished. Remember this SI story? www.si.com/more-sports/2012/02/29/uclaEven if you want to disagree about Howland there’s still 3 other name coaches that would jump at the opportunity. Masiello would still be a better higher than all of those guys though imo. Good Hungry coach that can recruit, plays an exciting style, and knows the Tri State area Ok. I guess we just don't agree about who constitutes a name coach. Semantics anyway.
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