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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2015 19:07:38 GMT -5
Stop using facts to dispute a diatribe. Unfair.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 10, 2015 19:49:55 GMT -5
Worst. Thread. Ever.
JT III is a fine coach and has earned the job security he righty enjoys. I have no idea what people expect.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 10, 2015 20:19:55 GMT -5
I am almost tempted not to even participate in this thread since it is so over the top, but since so many are biting, seems like fun.
First, the panic has to stop! Yes, III had a rough day and probably could have won this game with better decisions. However, the Hoyas played a team of equal talent level on the road and we lost in OT by 3. Does not sound that embarrassing to me. All coaches have ones that get away. III still has plenty of time to work on the offense against the zone and fix some of the issues.
Overall Frazier is 100% right. JT3 is a good coach, not great coach. He has been hamstrung by the current facilities which are pathetic in this day and age. BUT, the facilities are finally being upgraded, and much thanks should go to III!
The academic requirements put on the players is also a hindrance, especially when trying to recruit elite one and done recruits. Elite guys will always be difficult to get because they do not want to be seriously bothered by attending classes. This will not change with a new coach. So no one should expect our freshmen to come in and be saviors, which I think some people did.
Finally, in a time where the BE remains unstable, III is more committed and loyal to this school than anyone would ever be.
I think he puts plenty of effort on himself to improve. He has hired and fired assistants fairly regularly based on performance. He has also hit the recruiting trail like a mad man and just landed a Top 10 class. So there can be no doubting the coach's work ethic nor can there be any belief he is not in it 100%.
The program has hit a pothole, but with the class of kids he is bringing in, anyone who calls for III's head is crazy. He will figure it out. How quickly we all forget what a fantastic job he did last year with that roster. Smith's immaturity is all that stood in our way of making another NCAA.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 10, 2015 21:21:42 GMT -5
By the way, check out any message board for any other Big East school after their basketball team has lost a game. The Xavier board is calling for Chris Mack's head tonight after the loss to Butler. The DePaul board has been running a coach replacement thread all season. St. John's has lost three in a row, and they're measuring the rope and drop for Steve Lavin. They're even criticizing Mike McDermott on the Creighton board after a one-point heartbreaker against Seton Hall.
As Billy Joel sang in Summer Highland Falls, it's either sadness or euphoria.
It's a long season. Let's hope that we see some improvement in the immediate future, and let's step away from the ledge.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Jan 10, 2015 21:56:08 GMT -5
For the record. I don't want to see him fired. I want to see him improve as a coach. IMO his comfort level he has here makes him complacent, and that's not good. He needs to step it up.
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Jan 10, 2015 22:39:24 GMT -5
Please provide examples of how he is complacent.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 11, 2015 0:04:24 GMT -5
For the record. I don't want to see him fired. I want to see him improve as a coach. IMO his comfort level he has here makes him complacent, and that's not good. He needs to step it up. Complacent is not accurate. However like any coach, he has his systems, and things he is more comfortable with. He does make changes - we are trying to run more, he is using more guys this year. But of course he has room to improve.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 11, 2015 0:58:16 GMT -5
Here's an easy standard:
Georgetown fired Craig Esherick in 2004. What happened to cause that? Well, to put it in the simplest terms possible, we missed the NCAA Tournament for three consecutive seasons. In that final season, we finished with our first losing record in 30 or so years.
So there's one easy answer: we can have this conversation after we miss the NCAA Tournament for three straight years.
And even that standard would be phenomenally harsh on JTIII, because it ignores the myriad of on-court accomplishments and improvements to the overall state of Georgetown's basketball program under his watch that stand in contrast to where we were in 2004. His last name is irrelevant in this discussion.
I HAZ A SAD BECAUSE 2-3 ZONE ADJUSTMENTS ain't gonna cut it, sorry.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 11, 2015 9:46:25 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 11, 2015 9:56:14 GMT -5
Here's an easy standard: Georgetown fired Craig Esherick in 2004. What happened to cause that? Well, to put it in the simplest terms possible, we missed the NCAA Tournament for three consecutive seasons. In that final season, we finished with our first losing record in 30 or so years. Except that Georgetown missed the NCAA's three consecutive years in 1998, 1999, and 2000 and finished with a losing record in 1999. Overall, however, you've got to do something really stupid (Keith Brown, Matt Kerwick) or say something stupid (Craig Esherick to the Associated Press, March 5, 2004) to get Georgetown to consider cutting ties with a coach. If you graduate players and get the job done, more often than not, you're part of the family. Pete Wilk has 16 losing seasons in his his 16 year tenure and he's back. Kevin Warne led the Hoyas to its worst showing in 30 years and he's back. Kevin Kelly won just 23 games in eight years and he would have been back too, had he not jumped to Ball State. The head coach is not the problem with this team. If anything, we have too many recruiters on the bench and not enough coaches. The game plan hasn't been as sharp since Sydney Johnson left, and neither Hardy nor Sutton have shown as much in terms of player development.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jan 11, 2015 10:14:59 GMT -5
Here's an easy standard: The head coach is not the problem with this team. If anything, we have too many recruiters on the bench and not enough coaches. The game plan hasn't been as sharp since Sydney Johnson left, and neither Hardy nor Sutton have shown as much in terms of player development. Interesting take, DFW. Just curious...how many coaches does it take to coach a 12 person Division 1 basketball program (sincerely)? We have so many suits on the bench that I cannot fathom what they all do. My basketball coaching tenure stopped at 7th grade boys...but 2 of us seemed to handle it with one hour of practice a week. Sadly, we attacked a 2-3 zone more effectively than this team is doing now.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 11, 2015 10:20:13 GMT -5
Here's an easy standard: Georgetown fired Craig Esherick in 2004. What happened to cause that? Well, to put it in the simplest terms possible, we missed the NCAA Tournament for three consecutive seasons. In that final season, we finished with our first losing record in 30 or so years. Except that Georgetown missed the NCAA's three consecutive years in 1998, 1999, and 2000 and finished with a losing record in 1999. Overall, however, you've got to do something really stupid (Keith Brown, Matt Kerwick) or say something stupid (Craig Esherick to the Associated Press, March 5, 2004) to get Georgetown to consider cutting ties with a coach. If you graduate players and get the job done, more often than not, you're part of the family. Pete Wilk has 16 losing seasons in his his 16 year tenure and he's back. Kevin Warne has led what used to be a consistent NCAA contender under Dave Urick to its worst showing in 30 years and he's back. Kevin Kelly won just 23 games in eight years and he would have been back too had he not jumped to Ball State. The head coach is not the problem with this team. If anything, we have too many recruiters on the bench and not enough coaches. The game plan hasn't been as sharp since Sydney Johnson left, and neither Hardy nor Sutton have shown as much in terms of player development. Regular season losing record, but that's neither here nor there. I'm just trying to establish the simplest possible standard to answer the question. Georgetown's fired one basketball coach in what, four decades? So here's what our record looked like in the years immediately preceding that. Unless our record duplicates that--so, we miss the NCAA's for three straight years--to me there's no point to even take seriously somebody arguing for warm coaching seats or whatever.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 11, 2015 11:28:09 GMT -5
III has one of the coolest seats in the country imo. People that think it's getting warm are ignoring the fact that the head basketball coach at Georgetown is about much more than the product on the floor. He's an ambassador for the university, a leader of men, and perhaps even more importantly than a basketball coach, he's expected to be a life coach for the young men that he brings into the school. While there have certainly been shortcomings on the court during his tenure, the fact remains that he runs a squeaky clean program, graduates basically all of his players that don't leave for basketball reasons (only Mr. Whittington comes to mind as the exception here), and is generally an outstanding ambassador for the university both in public and behind closed doors. And as far as on court success goes, he took a team from the Escherick Wasteland and returned them to national status almost immediately, has never had a losing season, and (aside from his first season) has missed the Tourney twice in 10 years. There's a brand new practice facility getting built, he just brought in a top 10 recruiting class, and yes his father is still very much a part of the program.
For all these reasons and more, the man has a lot of job security. And rightfully so. Do we really want to see him get fired? I mean honestly? Who's replacing him that's a surefire better option? It ain't out there. Personally, I'd rather see the man build his own legacy at the school that his father brought to national prominence. I want to see him continue to improve as a coach here, to become the kind of tactical coach that the Ks and Izzos and Selfs took years to become. I want to see him win 500 games at Georgetown. I want to see him make deep tourney runs here. And god willing I want to see him win a national title here. I like JTIII and I like the program he runs. And it's certainly going to take A LOT more than a 3 point OT loss to Providence on the road to change that.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 11, 2015 12:03:08 GMT -5
I have spent this season bashing JT3 (and being bashed by the commentariat for it) but even I don't think he should be fired.
He's a good man and a strong representative of the university. That said, he is not doing a strong job from the bench with this year's team. I think we have talented parts that are not coming together the way they should. And I see the same mistakes happening season after season - he can get a lot better, and I hope he will.
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Post by bicentennial on Jan 11, 2015 12:09:24 GMT -5
I find this thread ludicrous. If Bradley Hayes had developed enough to play backup to Smith or if Hopkins could make a free throw this game would have been a W. No way 0/6 free throws is on the HC.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 11, 2015 13:14:17 GMT -5
It is amazing to see the traits that get assigned by us armchair viewers here to the coach ("stubborn" , "complacent" , etc). This team was always going to take time to gel and it's not surprising to me that they are not there yet. They are counting heavily on 4 guys who have 14 games of college experience and the league they are in is much stronger top-to-bottom than most people expected.
The game plans this year have adapted to the opponents pretty well. Not surprising to me that they've lost their first 2 Big East road games in tough venues against very good defensive teams. In both cases, yesterday's in particular, the Hoyas got good shots and missed most of them. How does that make the coach "complacent"? Is he perfect? No, but the Hoyas shoot 40% instead of 38% and we are talking about a gutty win instead of this BS.
Johnnysnowplow has it about right above, and bicentennial's "No way 0/6 free throws is on the HC" is dead on too. There is no way this coach's seat is warm at all.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 11, 2015 13:16:18 GMT -5
FL is right -- there is a point where JTIII's seat could get hot, but we're not anywhere near it. If it took the dumpster fire that was the end of the Esh era to get him fired, it's going to take more to end the JTIII era -- especially once you factor in that he's performed better on and off the court and the family connections.
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jester
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Post by jester on Jan 11, 2015 13:49:48 GMT -5
I think personnel is part of the problem but one could argue if it's the players execution, recruiting scouting , or coaching fault.
But having 4 yr players start such as Lubick and hopkins who basically add so little offensively is indicative of a part of the larger problem.
I am in the camp jt is An ok coach and at this point you probably wouldn't do better.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 11, 2015 14:42:32 GMT -5
By the way, check out any message board for any other Big East school after their basketball team has lost a game. The Xavier board is calling for Chris Mack's head tonight after the loss to Butler. The DePaul board has been running a coach replacement thread all season. St. John's has lost three in a row, and they're measuring the rope and drop for Steve Lavin. They're even criticizing Mike McDermott on the Creighton board after a one-point heartbreaker against Seton Hall. Here's a fun question: let's say hypothetically the Big East came out with a proposal to re-assign the 10 coaches in the conference by random draw. How many school's fans out of 10 would be cool with this? I'm thinking DePaul and maybe St. John's. I'm pretty confident most Georgetown fans would be scared to death of the prospect. (For the heck of it, I just did it w/ a random number generator. We ended up with Chris Mack, and JTIII ended up at Butler.)
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 11, 2015 14:53:20 GMT -5
By the way, check out any message board for any other Big East school after their basketball team has lost a game. The Xavier board is calling for Chris Mack's head tonight after the loss to Butler. The DePaul board has been running a coach replacement thread all season. St. John's has lost three in a row, and they're measuring the rope and drop for Steve Lavin. They're even criticizing Mike McDermott on the Creighton board after a one-point heartbreaker against Seton Hall. Here's a fun question: let's say hypothetically the Big East came out with a proposal to re-assign the 10 coaches in the conference by random draw. How many school's fans out of 10 would be cool with this? I'm thinking DePaul and maybe St. John's. I'm pretty confident most Georgetown fans would be scared to death of the prospect. (For the heck of it, I just did it w/ a random number generator. We ended up with Chris Mack, and JTIII ended up at Butler.) My blood just ran cold! Then again, it could have been worse ("Hello. My name is Oliver Purnell, and I just signed a five-year contract to coach men's basketball at Georgetown University.").
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