njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 16, 2015 16:48:38 GMT -5
People can correct me if I'm wrong but when the league was first being formed, Gonzaga was considered (along with St. Mary's). What I thought I read was: 1) All team entrance was deemed too costly, either in terms of money, or student-athlete time, or both. 2) The WCC was not willing to let Gonzaga stay in the conference for everything but Men's Basketball. All teams is out of the question IMO. So yes they would have to find a conference that would accept them. But as far as basketball you could work it like this. 12 teams (add Gonzaga and let's say another midwestern school like Wichita State) Then Western Division: Gonzaga Wichita State Creighton DePaul Marquette Butler Eastern Division: Traditional Big East Schools + Xavier You would play teams in your own division twice. Teams in the other division once. But since you are at home for 3 of the cross divisional games, Gonzaga would only have to travel to the east coast teams 3 times a year. Make those cities something like New York (St. Johns, Seton Hall), Philly (Villanova), Washington, D.C. (Georgetown) and you have an appealing recruiting tool. **Add a stipulation that Gonzaga always gets Providence at home, so they never have to travel to Rhode Island. I'm sure that our friends at Providence would be more than willing to travel from Providence, Rhode Island to Spokane, Washington every other year, and never get a home game against Gonzaga. Why not say Gonzaga would never have to travel to Washington and play Georgetown away from home? Would we accept that? Not in a million years. So why should Providence? Better yet, we let Gonzaga in, but with the proviso that Georgetown never has to travel to Spokane, and that the Hoyas always play Gonzaga at home. Think they'd like that in Spokane? Seems to me that would be a deal-breaker, and the idea of PC being required to always play at Gonzaga without a reciprocating trip cross-country in the other direction is, and I write this with all due respect, nonsensical. No conference will accept Gonzaga as a member without the crown jewel, the basketball program, also coming into that conference, so the idea of Gonzaga as a basketball-only member of the Big East Conference is not feasible. It's nice to dream, but this is nothing more than a fantasy.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 16, 2015 16:52:23 GMT -5
All teams is out of the question IMO. So yes they would have to find a conference that would accept them. But as far as basketball you could work it like this. 12 teams (add Gonzaga and let's say another midwestern school like Wichita State) Then Western Division: Gonzaga Wichita State Creighton DePaul Marquette Butler Eastern Division: Traditional Big East Schools + Xavier You would play teams in your own division twice. Teams in the other division once. But since you are at home for 3 of the cross divisional games, Gonzaga would only have to travel to the east coast teams 3 times a year. Make those cities something like New York (St. Johns, Seton Hall), Philly (Villanova), Washington, D.C. (Georgetown) and you have an appealing recruiting tool. **Add a stipulation that Gonzaga always gets Providence at home, so they never have to travel to Rhode Island. I'm sure that our friends at Providence would be more than willing to travel from Providence, Rhode Island to Spokane, Washington every other year, and never get a home game against Gonzaga. Why not say Gonzaga would never have to travel to Washington and play Georgetown away from home? Would we accept that? Not in a million years. So why should Providence? Better yet, we let Gonzaga in, but with the proviso that Georgetown never has to travel to Spokane, and that the Hoyas always play Gonzaga at home. Think they'd like that in Spokane? Seems to me that would be a deal-breaker, and the idea of PC being required to always play at Gonzaga without a reciprocating trip cross-country in the other direction is, and I write this with all due respect, nonsensical.No conference will accept Gonzaga as a member without the crown jewel, the basketball program, also coming into that conference, so the idea of Gonzaga as a basketball-only member of the Big East Conference is not feasible. It's nice to dream, but this is nothing more than a fantasy. You do realize the Providence codicil was tongue in cheek.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 16, 2015 16:55:34 GMT -5
Didn't recognize the tongue's firm implantation in cheek. My apologies!
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jan 16, 2015 17:11:35 GMT -5
How close is West Virginia to its closest opponent in the Big 12? Great point. Iowa State is the closest at 871 miles. The Kansas schools are 1000+ miles away. Texas Longhorns and the other Texas schools are 1500 miles away. So this along with Hawaii just kind of busts the myth/excuse that it's not possible to add Gonzaga. West Virginia is in the Big 12 for all sports and yet it still felt it was advantageous to go the Big 12: www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/07/22/In-Depth/College-travel-costs.aspxWest Virginia's decision was a football-based one, and they stand to make good money BECAUSE of football. wvmetronews.com/2014/05/30/west-virginia-nets-nearly-14-million-as-big-12-revenue-climbs-to-221-million/So, again, just not a good example when talking about Gonzaga. And, saying that your reference to Hawaii busts the myth/excuse does not actually mean that you busted the myth/excuse. For reasons already cited, and many more, Hawaii is a terrible example.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 16, 2015 17:26:33 GMT -5
I really disagree with that. They are talking about revenue not profitability. IMO the whole football is king thing is very deceptive because most of the revenue is pumped back into the costs of running a big time football program. The West Virgina head coach's salary alone is 2.8 million. Then you have all the assistant coaches (which is alot more than basketball), all the scholarships, facilities, etc, etc. There are a handful of elite schools like Texas, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan that can makes loads of money but I really think the profitability of football is not as big as it seems.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 16, 2015 17:31:14 GMT -5
"According to Jeff Benedict and Armen Keteyian, authors of The System: The Glory and Scandal of Big-Time College Football (2013), figures from the 2010-11 academic year show that only 22 of the 120 top-tier football programs broke even or made a profit. That means that while these big-time teams generate millions of dollars of revenue, the cost of running such programs usually exceeds that revenue. To put that more starkly, even within the so-called top tier, 82% of college football teams actually take away money from the university’s budget, rather than generate net revenue" www.ethosreview.org/intellectual-spaces/is-college-football-profitable/
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 16, 2015 18:36:45 GMT -5
That doesn't change the fact that WVU joined the Big 12 because of football. They would not have done so for basketball and it is a substantial burden for other sports so it is not a path for Gonzaga. The Big East is just fine as it is. No need for desperate measures.
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Post by detmut on Jan 16, 2015 20:21:34 GMT -5
I think NCAA rules forbid your participating in multiple conferences if the conference in which most of your sports are in sponsors the sport you're trying to park somewhere else. I think I saw that somewhere, but someone I'm sure will correct me if I'm mistaken. I don't think it's impossible to make it work, but you'd have to take a close look at the numbers. I don't know the WCC's TV deal, but it surely pales in comparison to what we're getting, so the money would more than make up for all of the expenses just for men's basketball. (And, remember, it's not just straight TV money...it's also NCAA units, which are significant, and which the BE has many more of). So, it likely would be in the Zags' economic interest to make it work for basketball. Does it still work if you add in all of the other sports' expenses? Don't know. They sponsor baseball, both basketballs, track (not a big deal due to the nature of the sport), both soccers, tennis, and volleyball. That's a significant number of teams and participants to have to travel a lot more than they do now. But....all those teams almost surely fly to all their conference games now -- the west coast is just that much bigger than the east coast, so I don't know that it's that much different. The bigger question is whether their addition would up the revenue for all of us in the BE enough to merit OUR increased travel and pain in the rear traveling out there. On the one hand, I like close geographic proximity in my conferences. I think it makes the rivalries more real. But that ship has sailed. I also think a true nationwide conference would be kind of neat.All in all? I'd leave it just the way it is, unless TV tells us they really want or need us to expand. you need some southern schools for that
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Jan 17, 2015 0:36:41 GMT -5
Aren't nearly enough good programs to make a nationwide conference of bball schools. This isn't really a tough concept. Find the best available programs, ones that are likely to be ranked and win tourney games. When you run out of those teams, you stop. You get teams that win, you build a brand, people will watch. A team that jumps for the next football buck doesn't help us and while new markets are a bonus, no one pays to watch the 4th best team in any city. That's how you end up with a conference of Houston, USF, etc, and a pitiful TV deal.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 17, 2015 15:16:03 GMT -5
How close is West Virginia to its closest opponent in the Big 12? Great point. Iowa State is the closest at 871 miles. The Kansas schools are 1000+ miles away. Texas Longhorns and the other Texas schools are 1500 miles away. So this along with Hawaii just kind of busts the myth/excuse that it's not possible to add Gonzaga. West Virginia is in the Big 12 for all sports and yet it still felt it was advantageous to go the Big 12: www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/07/22/In-Depth/College-travel-costs.aspxWVU is a state school with state school money for athletics and a nice TV contract. Same does not apply to Gonzaga. Gonzaga would be attractive if we can work it. Sounds great. Obviously, the devil is in the details...
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 18, 2015 15:46:47 GMT -5
Watching DePaul play at home. Place empty as usual. Maybe instead of expansion we should be looking at replacement. Can anyone get them to play someplace else? I've heard playing at Rosemont is like us playing at old Cap Center.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 18, 2015 15:55:28 GMT -5
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 18, 2015 16:20:08 GMT -5
Thanks. But the article doesn't sound too positive.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 18, 2015 16:28:28 GMT -5
When did we ever see anything positive about DePaul?
I, for one, will starting thinking this could happen if we actually read about a ground-breaking in Chicago.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 18, 2015 17:44:42 GMT -5
You do realize the Providence codicil was tongue in cheek. Has the word codicil ever been posted here? Bravo.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 18, 2015 20:27:25 GMT -5
"According to Jeff Benedict and Armen Keteyian, authors of The System: The Glory and Scandal of Big-Time College Football (2013), figures from the 2010-11 academic year show that only 22 of the 120 top-tier football programs broke even or made a profit. That means that while these big-time teams generate millions of dollars of revenue, the cost of running such programs usually exceeds that revenue. To put that more starkly, even within the so-called top tier, 82% of college football teams actually take away money from the university’s budget, rather than generate net revenue" That's a great book btw. If you guys get a chance please read it.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 1, 2015 16:19:52 GMT -5
Connecticut is trailing Houston (8-12 overall, 0-8 in the AAC), 41-29, with 15:05 left in the second half. Well, I guess if we add UConn to the Big East, they can battle with Creighton, Marquette and DePaul at the bottom of the league.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Feb 2, 2015 13:22:11 GMT -5
My belief is that we should immediately add VCU after the season and then put the hard sell on a hoops-only Gonzaga invitation or Wichita State and bring the conference up to 12 teams.
We have to keep improving, showing positive momentum, and building our brand as the best-in-class, hoops-focused conference architecture where basketball players come to play hoops. Our conference becomes the #1 alternative to every FBS school where football rules the campus.
Adding Shaka to the conference would be a huge get, and would likely keep him at VCU for longer than with no Big East affiliation.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 2, 2015 13:42:59 GMT -5
Wichita State without Gregg Marshall might as well be (insert garbage MVC team here). And I don't think he has any particularly loyalty to that program, he is just waiting for the right offer.
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 2, 2015 14:09:42 GMT -5
I'd rather get a school that is in a major market than their "hoops" pedigree. I think a school that could fit that profile could be Northeastern. I know they don't have the hoops pedigree but I would want to build them up. Holy Cross doesn't make sense because Worcester isn't Boston.
Northeastern, St Louis or get UCONN to drop football lol. I don't like VCU just because if Smart leaves. That place didn't blow up in attendance till the final 4 year and that can change quickly see George Mason.
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