vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,326
Member is Online
|
Post by vv83 on Mar 25, 2015 12:57:51 GMT -5
I think that Marshall stated on the Jim Rome show that it would take a crazy offer from a school like Alabama to get him to consider moving. Although he was careful to couch his terms as requiring a crazy offer, I know that even cracking the door has alienated some of the WSU fans, particularly now before a Sweet 16 game. I think that WSU is totally a function of the current coach. I also know that he was in the running a few years back for the New Mexico job that went to Alford, so it is not as if he has not considered leaving before. As for VCU, who knows if the addition to the Big East would allow the program to continue maintaining a high level of success beyond Smart. I enjoy talking expansion but right now even I would hold off to see what happens in the next year or so. I believe that the Big 12 may make a move to grow by 2 teams and then dominoes start falling. I know that BYU is increasingly desperate for a home for its football program (other than the MWC) and believes that it is hurt by being in a basketball conference with only one other consistently high quality program. The problem is who to pair BYU with to the Big 12. It could be a Cincinnati, which would have major repurcussions for the AAC, but I am not certain what type of poison pill is now in that conference's bylaws. Go slow and see how it all unfolds. Wichita State can probably pay Marshall as much as any of the football conference schools. The Koch brothers are major financial supporters of the hoops program (their new arena is named after one of the Koch brothers), and i don't think they would let Wichita St. be outbid for Marshall's services. Marshall is also a major supporter of the Koch's - he shares their political philosophies, and has deep respect for what they do for the University and the Wichita community as a whole. Marshall's relationship with Wichita State is therefore a bit different (and stronger) than the standard "great young coach at a mid-major school" situation. I doubt Marshall leaves WIchita state unless/until he is offered a job at one of the more solid football conference programs.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Mar 25, 2015 13:09:39 GMT -5
Urban, private institutions in meaningful TV markets where Basketball is the main sport... Neither VCU nor Wichita fits the bill... St. Louis does Why would the Big East limit itself to private institutions? It didn't when it first formed (UConn, Rutgers and Pitt were all original/early members).
|
|
SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,325
Member is Online
|
Post by SDHoya on Mar 25, 2015 13:19:31 GMT -5
Still not convinces with WSU. It will take a big time program offering a huge deal to get him, but it will eventually happen. Crean is on thin ice at Indiana, and even if that doesn't happen, another one will. Koch brothers or not, I don't see Marshall as being a Mark Few type.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Mar 25, 2015 13:33:43 GMT -5
Still not convinces with WSU. It will take a big time program offering a huge deal to get him, but it will eventually happen. Crean is on thin ice at Indiana, and even if that doesn't happen, another one will. Koch brothers or not, I don't see Marshall as being a Mark Few type. The question isn't whether the coach will leave, its if he'll leave for any random football school / pay raise and whether the school can be trusted to replace the coach with another quality coach. If a school pays well and supports their program, successful coaches won't leave unless its for a program you don't turn down (like Duke/UNC/UK/Kansas) or the NBA. For example, Butler has a history of good coaches stretching back to Matta. Losing Stevens hurt, but they found a good replacement. Marquette just lost Buzz to VT under somewhat unusual circumstances, but they went and got what looks to be a good replacement (hopefully). You don't want a school that's always going to lose coaches to the likes of Alabama / Penn State / Clemson when there aren't any extenuating circumstances. If they go to Indiana, well, that's one of the blue bloods and it happens (although whether Indiana is still considered that great of a draw anymore is another question). For example, Wojo going to Duke wouldn't signify anything about the strength of Marquette, except that they aren't Duke, and Marquette can be trusted to hire a good replacement.
|
|
SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,325
Member is Online
|
Post by SDHoya on Mar 25, 2015 15:10:24 GMT -5
TBird, I'm with you that its unlikely that Marshall jumps ship to a random FBS school just for the money. But, Marshall is going to want/get a blue-blood job in the next few years. And I just don't see that WSU has the history that even a school like Butler or VCU has with replacing one solid coach with another. Maybe its true the Koch's will spend the money to keep them nationally relevant. But they could just as easily lose interest and then we have some random third tier state school in Kansas in our club.
I really think the BE has to be exceedingly careful to make the right expansion choices. And that choice may well be NOT to expand. Although their profiles don't quite fit in with the small catholic/private thing, UCONN and Memphis should they get locked out of the FBS party would be ideal, as they each have the history and fan bases to ensure that a coach leaving is not the end of the world. Besides them, I'm not sure I am convinced with anyone still out there. SLU is back to irrelevance. Shaka seems pretty happy at VCU, but if something changes, are we certain they remain top tier? Dayton might be interesting, as I think they'll bounce back from losing Miller, but it certainly doesn't raise the BE profile. And Gonzaga might as well be in Russia.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
|
Post by NCHoya on Mar 25, 2015 15:24:37 GMT -5
Urban, private institutions in meaningful TV markets where Basketball is the main sport... Neither VCU nor Wichita fits the bill... St. Louis does Why would the Big East limit itself to private institutions? It didn't when it first formed (UConn, Rutgers and Pitt were all original/early members). Those football state schools were also the reason for the implosion of the Big East. I do not think the BE wants to make the same mistakes again. A university that has D1 football and is heavily influenced by state funding/politics will never make decisions in the best interest of its basketball program, and therefore is not a good fit in a basketball driven conference. Think of UCONN. They cannot walk away from football, so they will live in the AAC praying a few more dominoes will fall and allow them into a power-5. Having institutions that are all private, basektball driven just keeps everyone's priorities aligned.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Mar 25, 2015 15:38:20 GMT -5
Why would the Big East limit itself to private institutions? It didn't when it first formed (UConn, Rutgers and Pitt were all original/early members). Those football state schools were also the reason for the implosion of the Big East. I do not think the BE wants to make the same mistakes again. A university that has D1 football and is heavily influenced by state funding/politics will never make decisions in the best interest of its basketball program, and therefore is not a good fit in a basketball driven conference. Think of UCONN. They cannot walk away from football, so they will live in the AAC praying a few more dominoes will fall and allow them into a power-5. Having institutions that are all private, basektball driven just keeps everyone's priorities aligned. The issue isn't whether a school is public or private--its whether it plays football at the FBS level. Neither VCU nor Wichita State have a varsity football team. VCU has a club team, and WSU doesn't have a team.
|
|
|
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 25, 2015 15:43:14 GMT -5
Dayton is also about forty five minutes to an hour from Xavier. That may not matter but I say we wait on UConn to come calling when they realize I-AA is the best route for their football. Then we can consider the others like VCU (coaching tree of Grant, Capel & Smart, not bad).
|
|
gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 831
|
Post by gujake on Mar 25, 2015 16:14:37 GMT -5
TV ratings for Big East games on FS1 have been ugly so far. Obviously some large part of that is due to the network itself, but some part is likely also due to small Big East fan bases. Schools like Dayton and VCU with large fan bases might be attractive for that reason.
I just hope that, if the league expands, it's careful to add basketball programs that are already really good. The fascination with SLU (RPI 272) scares me.
|
|
CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,852
|
Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 25, 2015 16:43:51 GMT -5
The pie-in-the-sky scenario is that UConn downgrades its football team and we bring them on as team number 11. I think it's worth keeping the round robin and going to 20 games in that scenario. (If there's a similarly attractive twelfth team, then fine, go to 12 and ditch the round robin.) But that's unlikely, and certainly unlikely in the short term.
I don't get the pressure to add teams now, though, unless Fox is demanding it for ratings purposes. If we do have to add teams now, I like VCU for several reasons: recent success, no (apparent) football aspirations, state school, large alumni base, and location. If we're going to add a team, let's add one that might actually sell some tickets at Verizon.
Does Dayton really have a big fan base, or is it just really dominant in its home market? It might be nice to have the Dayton-Xavier rivalry, and obviously having a team that consistently sells out its home games, a la Creighton, is a good thing, but does Dayton add any TV viewers?
I agree that SLU doesn't add a lot of value, but the TV-market driver might make them a popular choice for Fox.
Someone needs to finish last in every conference, but I don't think we want to be targeting teams that we aren't sure will be competitive. And on a personal note, I'd like to see the next round of expansion, if there is one, to include eastern teams, not more midwestern ones.
|
|
kettlehill
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,139
|
Post by kettlehill on Mar 25, 2015 17:12:51 GMT -5
I'd vote for bringing in St. Bonaventure and Niagara. The Purple Eagles were really good when they had Calvin Murphy. It also opens up a whole new market in Western New York and Lower Canada, and challenges Syracuse in their own backyard. You do realize that I'm kidding. Right? Well if we are going there, how about Siena and Canisius? Kidding...
|
|
Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,409
|
Post by Nevada Hoya on Mar 25, 2015 17:25:41 GMT -5
Ok, let's go for the Boston market and add another Jesuit team (#5)and get Holy Cross.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,732
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 25, 2015 18:03:27 GMT -5
The pie-in-the-sky scenario is that UConn downgrades its football team and we bring them on as team number 11. I think it's worth keeping the round robin and going to 20 games in that scenario. (If there's a similarly attractive twelfth team, then fine, go to 12 and ditch the round robin.) But that's unlikely, and certainly unlikely in the short term. I don't get the pressure to add teams now, though, unless Fox is demanding it for ratings purposes. If we do have to add teams now, I like VCU for several reasons: recent success, no (apparent) football aspirations, state school, large alumni base, and location. If we're going to add a team, let's add one that might actually sell some tickets at Verizon. UConn would be great, but let's be realistic: Fox is going to drive expansion, not the schools, and the city of Dayton doesn't exactly drive ratings on FS1. FWIW, I'd take UConn and UMass, let them park football in the MAC, and fill the Garden in March. This is not the Great Midwest Conference after all and the ability to improve MSG attendance should be a priority in 2016 with the Brooklyn-bound ACC tournament looming. But I wouldn't use "sell some tickets at Verizon" as a criterion. A school with 160,000 alumni that is drawing 9,971 a game needs to get its own fan base in order before it expects others to fill the gaps.
|
|
turbohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 320
|
Post by turbohoya on Mar 26, 2015 9:35:38 GMT -5
TV ratings for Big East games on FS1 have been ugly so far. Obviously some large part of that is due to the network itself, but some part is likely also due to small Big East fan bases. Schools like Dayton and VCU with large fan bases might be attractive for that reason. I just hope that, if the league expands, it's careful to add basketball programs that are already really good. The fascination with SLU (RPI 272) scares me. This was a brutal down year so I am not sure it's a fair representation of the program - they had come off three straight NCAA bids and won a game in each... the fascination is the TV market and the fit in terms of urban/basketball/school type...
|
|
boxout05
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 571
|
Post by boxout05 on Mar 26, 2015 13:04:13 GMT -5
SLU needs to prove they can win without Majerus.
Last year was the first time UMass made the Tourney since the Calipari era. I'm not familiar with the program's support, but they would seem like the bottom of the barrel - a real project. Could they help? More than Temple?
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
|
Post by thebin on Mar 26, 2015 13:27:02 GMT -5
Looovvve the idea of adding Umass and Uconn if both were to pull the plug on their many years and millions long-effort to play FBS football. I think both are long-shots, particularly Uconn who has built a new stadium at FBS size and been to a BCS bowl more or less recently....but Umass's experiment thus far playing in front of high school crowds at Gillette an hour plus from campus has been an utter disaster so far.
Seriously why not add them for everything but football, have them both go independent or MAC for FB only...and make a sizable payout penalty (not a ludicrous one that would insult them before agreement was reached) should the ACC/Big10 come calling? It is very unlikely to happen ever for umass and looks less than likely for Uconn. Seems like a classic win-win. Both schools, which at heart are hoops schools after-all, get their bball teams in an elite conference, all 20+ non-revenue programs get FAR more sensible rivals with reduced travel expenses, etc., and the football teams really don't take much of a hit. And the BE adds two big programs (and one GIANT program) with huge fan bases in large Eastern markets. They would instantly become the two biggest ticket buyers at MSG.
Why are we not talking to them about this? Leave them with the possibility of joining a big boy FBS club if they get the offer. Too much to gain not to risk that....
Turns out Umass is already independent for football starting next year.
"In March 2014, the MAC and UMass announced an agreement for the Minutemen to leave the conference after the 2015 season due to UMass declining an offer to become a full member of the conference. In the agreement between the MAC and the university, there was a contractual clause that had UMass playing in the MAC as a football-only member for two more seasons if UMass declined a full membership offer. UMass announced that it would look for a "more suitable conference" for the team...."
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
|
Post by thebin on Mar 26, 2015 14:13:29 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 18:23:35 GMT -5
|
|
IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,526
|
Post by IDenj on Mar 26, 2015 19:52:28 GMT -5
I'd take UConn right now as well as VCU. If UConn leaves for football so be it. Replace them at that point. But for now the conference could use them, especially come BET time.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,480
|
Post by DanMcQ on Apr 1, 2015 20:25:54 GMT -5
Nope, Smart's never leaving VCU...
|
|