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Post by 1987champs on Jan 4, 2015 11:18:33 GMT -5
My son is being recruited buy Georgetown to play football. My question to ya'll is is there enough support of the program there or are kids just going for the education with football being a side note? I know there is some discussion about upgrading the facilities, so is that still on course or off the table now? With the playoff system in place now the interest in college football has never been higher. Its my belief that there is no time like the present to get things going there because of the college football landscape whether my son comes or not.
Thanks in advance
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jan 4, 2015 13:55:30 GMT -5
So... first, I would say that the ideal is that all student-athletes are going for the education with their sport being secondary. As the NCAA loves to remind us, the vast majority of student-athletes go pro in something other than sports, so the educational piece should be foremost. I think we all understand that this is less true in some contexts, sports, and programs than others. Within a non-scholarship program like Georgetown football, though, I think it can be safely said that kids are indeed going primarily for the education. Football is a big part of their experience (for most of them, it's the only way they gain admission to the University) and plugs them into a pretty extensive network in terms of career opportunities and the like. But Georgetown is not - and almost certainly never will be - a 'football school.' (For that matter, it's becoming less and less of a 'basketball school,' but that's another story).
One of the key issues with facilities, especially when talking about the ultimate fate of "Multi-Sport Field," is a general lack of publicly available information. For that reason, the best source of information is going to be whatever coach is your recruiting POC. Those of us here are not privy to the up-to-the-minute particulars of where that project is. I am confident that the football team's accommodations in McDonough - and on gamedays, during weighlifting and sports medicine sessions, etc - once the Thompson Athletic Center is finished in fall 2016.
It may be true that interest in college football has never been higher, but that interest is not equally distributed (see, e.g., UAB), nor universally shared. Things are indeed 'going,' but at Georgetown's pace and according to Georgetown's institutional priorities.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 4, 2015 14:03:31 GMT -5
Lots of "yes and no" answers to your questions, so let me try to discuss each.
Is there enough support of the program there or are kids just going for the education with football being a side note?" Even though football has the second largest budget across Georgetown's 29 sports, it needs more support relative to its conference. If Georgetown were in the Ivy league, its support would be comparable to the middle tier of the league, in the NEC, a little less. But because the Patriot League spends more than almost all other I-AA conferences, Georgetown's budget is considerably less than any of the other six schools. Numerous losing seasons don't help either, but it's not a level playing field in the PL.
And, yes, kids are education-first. Given the admissions requirements, you have to be.
"I know there is some discussion about upgrading the facilities, so is that still on course or off the table now?" Still on the table, except that Georgetown can't focus on finishing more than one project at a time. So until the JT Center gets up and running (and there's still no dirt flying), Georgetown isn't devoting much time and effort on fixing a decade-old mess.
With the playoff system in place now the interest in college football has never been higher." The Patriot League must prove it's more than a one-bid conference. That will help interest across the board.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 4, 2015 14:27:24 GMT -5
But Georgetown is not - and almost certainly never will be - a 'football school.' (For that matter, it's becoming less and less of a 'basketball school,' but that's another story). That's an interesting topic--in fact, I'd argue it's more of a basketball school (and the negative baggage that entails) than it was 15 years ago. Your thoughts?
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Post by 1987champs on Jan 4, 2015 14:28:17 GMT -5
Thanks for the answers. I probably didnt phrase my questions that well but did get some answers with both of your replies. I understand they all go to school with the education being the primary goal. I was more interested in the landscape of commitment to the program. I understand ya'll ar a basketball school first but I have seen some schools of this type (Duke) try and improve their program. As for the UAB reference, I believe there are alot more forces/agendas in play there that are internal rather than external. As for the education I understand GU is top notch. GU is one of the only 1-AA he considering for that reason. Again thanks for the responses and I wish yall well
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jan 4, 2015 16:13:41 GMT -5
But Georgetown is not - and almost certainly never will be - a 'football school.' (For that matter, it's becoming less and less of a 'basketball school,' but that's another story). That's an interesting topic--in fact, I'd argue it's more of a basketball school (and the negative baggage that entails) than it was 15 years ago. Your thoughts? Well, I can't personally speak to 15 years ago, as I arrived on the Hilltop only about 10 years ago, in the Fall of 2004. Still, thanks to FLHoya and some others, I feel like I do have some understanding of what the feeling on campus was like back then, so... here goes. I think it's certainly true that the level of 'engagement' with the program is much higher. Sports have taken advantage of the Internet and Mobile revolutions as well as anyone, and we're all familiar with the continued explosion of sports coverage on TV, as well as online. So from that vantage point, I think people get more exposure to the basketball program - without trying - than ever before. For those who do try, they face an embarrassment of riches. Plus, obviously, the program's fortunes since JTIII's arrival have been significantly better than the Esherick Error and the later years of Pops's reign. Georgetown has logged enough big wins over big-name programs, tournament appearances, and the like that the program's prominence is greater, which in turn yields more fans. Everyone (well, not everyone - more on that shortly) loves a winner. The counterargument, which is based on a lot of macro trends and non program-specific developments, is that the actual level of interest in the program among students (and, as a result, among each successive cohort of alums) has declined. I would propose a couple of reasons: - That same Internet and Mobile revolution has also exponentially increased the non-basketball entertainment options. Where before, going to games and watching them on TV and talking about them, etc., were easy and readily available activities to get drawn into, now there's a bajillion options - sports and non - with very low barriers to entry.
- There's a lot more to do in DC that students feel comfortable going out and doing. Washington's transformation over the last decade and a half has been staggering. Fifteen years ago, the area around the Phone Booth could still legitimately be considered sketchy. Now, it's being used as a model example of how arenas done right can drive a renaissance - albeit one that has now been overshadowed by the gentrification of Columbia Heights, Logan Circle and 14th Street, Shaw and U Street, H Street NE, etc. etc. And, of course, things like Uber (not to mention the University-provided shuttles to Adams Morgan) open up even more entertainment options, whether of an alcohol-oriented nature or not.
- The makeup of the student body continues to change. It's a more selective group, certainly, and so some of the difference is simply having a largely proportion of Type A/nerdy types who don't care all that much about sports (insert Claire Cooper joke here). But I would argue that the bigger change involves the increase in diversity, specifically socio-economic diversity.
Partially, it's that more students are coming from places where college basketball isn't as big a deal. More critically, many are coming from families and situations where college basketball - and basketball, period; and sports, period - aren't as big of a deal. Some of it is cultural, but I think a lot of it is also economic. As the gap between the upper class and the middle class (to say nothing of lower-middle and working classes) increases, the students from those latter categories who have managed to make it to Georgetown feel increased pressure to maximize their opportunities and secure a career path that can lift their socioeconomic standing. They load up on as many internships and resume-building activities as possible, in the hopes of breaking into the world of comfort and privilege from which Georgetown used to draw the vast majority of its student body. That doesn't leave a whole lot of time for basketball, especially if it wasn't really your thing to begin with.
(I have some personal experience with the pressures described in #3, although I've been a sports nut for as long as I can remember. However, I have had many Georgetown Scholarship Program students relate to me some version of what I described above.)
Add it all up, and you have a recipe for decreasing prominence of athletics in student life and culture. Now, there are countervailing forces. We've seen blossoming passion for soccer in places like Portland, Seattle, Sacramento, Kansas City, and many others - including among demographics quite similar to those of Georgetown students. For that matter, we've seen great student turnout at Georgetown NCAA tournament matches. Across economic classes, people are finding community, civil pride, etc. in sports, substituting (in whole or in part) for traditional sources of community like religion, large extended families, and so on. So I don't think it's an inevitable decline or a one-way street. Insofar as Georgetown's athletics ideal is something like Stanford (minus the Power Five football), the presumed solution to the "negative baggage" that being a basketball school entails is to 'simply' become an excellent school in all phases, athletics and otherwise. Until then, you're going to see an emphasis on balance; that is, on improving incrementally without being seen as overemphasizing any one aspect, which is seen as the key sin of the basketball or football school.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jan 4, 2015 16:38:46 GMT -5
"I know there is some discussion about upgrading the facilities, so is that still on course or off the table now?"Still on the table, except that Georgetown can't focus on finishing more than one project at a time. So until the JT Center gets up and running (and there's still no dirt flying), Georgetown isn't devoting much time and effort on fixing a decade-old mess. I do want to push back on this a bit. Under Robin Morey, the University has increasingly proven its ability to walk and chew gum at the same time. The days of only being able to work on one project at a time are over. We've got three major projects ongoing at the moment - Northeast Triangle Hall, the renovation of the Old Jesuit Residence, and the Thompson Athletic Center. You've got the bus turnaround on top of that, although that is really an adjunct project to the TAC, as well as completion of the punchlist on the Healy Family Student Center. The three major projects will still be underway when the University has to tackle a fourth, less extensive but not insignificant project: the temporary conversion of some Leavey Center hotel rooms into student housing. As for the Thompson Center: I don't know whether it has been flying at any point, but I do know that there is plenty of dirt to be seen at the building site. Utility relocation doesn't look or sound particularly sexy, but it is a time-consuming - and foundational - part of pretty much any infill construction project.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 5, 2015 16:05:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the answers. I probably didnt phrase my questions that well but did get some answers with both of your replies. I understand they all go to school with the education being the primary goal. I was more interested in the landscape of commitment to the program. I understand ya'll ar a basketball school first but I have seen some schools of this type (Duke) try and improve their program. As for the UAB reference, I believe there are alot more forces/agendas in play there that are internal rather than external. As for the education I understand GU is top notch. GU is one of the only 1-AA he considering for that reason. Again thanks for the responses and I wish yall well I think if you dig through some of the other threads on this board you'll get this answer from a lot of disillusioned former parents and frustrated current parents trying to make something happen, but there really isn't much a commitment to the program, if you're trying to compare Georgetown to the other Patriot League teams or the teams that compete each year for the FCS title. A lot of this is a lack of institutional support. That's not to say that the administration doesn't support the program, but their vision for the program is pretty much at odds with the people who would like to see the team fund many more scholarships in hopes of outgunning our Patriot League counterparts in a drive towards football relevancy or even a Patriot League title. As for UAB, Georgetown's "issues" (again, if you want to call them that, despite the administration not seeing them as issues) are generally internal, but I don't believe you'll see the program fold in the near future. However, it's been said before on this board, and I agree, that it is much more likely that the program will fold than ever seeing Georgetown fund a comparable level of scholarships to the other teams in the PL. As Russky and DFW said, if you're coming to Georgetown, you're coming for the education. I don't think there are many players that have been disappointed by their overall experience at Georgetown, but I would say the majority that come into school with football as their identity, and an expectation of D1 football being like what they see on TV, end up disappointed with their football experience.
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Post by alumni47 on Feb 24, 2015 16:05:05 GMT -5
RUN FOR THE HILLS !!!!!!!!
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Post by bogie on Apr 9, 2015 19:55:30 GMT -5
RUN FOR THE HILLS !!!!!!!! Presumably the OP's son already has made his decision, as I am late to this discussion. I am a fan/alum of a different Patriot League school but for other parents reading this . . . absolutely you should jump at the opportunity for a Georgetown education. The contrast between the dilemma at UAB and the issues confronting Georgetown could not possibly be more stark. I'd suggest that it is simply a State funding issue versus a private initiative issue but that doesn't even scratch the surface of the complexities. Please do not consider the UAB situation in your decision.
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