Georgetown - Indiana 12/27/14 Discussion

[rockhoya]

Dec 22, 2014 14:32:12 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 22, 2014 14:11:08 GMT -5 michaelgrahmstylie said:

I don't like DSR at the point. Say what you will, DSR is a guy who is positively selfish, who looks for his own shots, and relies on being open. We might be better off with Peak handling the ball.

But he was open time and again, didn't shoot and UNSELFISHLY passed it to his mates vs. Charlotte et al.
Wait, is my sarcasm meter broken? Did I read you correctly?

POSITIVELY selfish, I think you missed a word

[NCHoya]

Dec 22, 2014 14:51:55 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 22, 2014 14:48:58 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

DSR may not have a choice but to be selfish in this one. IU can score the ball, we will need all the points we can get, and the Hoyas have no better option then DSR (besides a Josh Smith post-up) for scoring.

If he struggles again, I do not see a win for us. However, I think on the MSG stage DSR will have that extra hop to get the ball over the rim in this one. It should be a fairly fast paced, wide open game. Should be fun to watch.

I think Peak has another big game on the big stage...

I hope so, Peak has been playing well as of late and this is the kind of game where he could really go off. If this was last year, I would feel much worse about playing a team that can put up big points, but this year's team should be able to more than hold their own. We have some very good offensive talent on this team, especially if we can get it going in transition.

Only problem is we have yet to prove we can close out on the shooters. We have a full week to prepare, no excuses for missed assignments on Saturday.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

It's very interesting scheduling on our part. Charlotte, Indiana, and Xavier all play very similar styles on offense. Hopefully we have the game plan down pat by new years eve.

[hoyalove4ever]

STOCK UP ON DIET COKE.

[michaelgrahmstylie]

Dec 22, 2014 14:32:12 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 22, 2014 14:11:08 GMT -5 michaelgrahmstylie said:

I don't like DSR at the point. Say what you will, DSR is a guy who is positively selfish, who looks for his own shots, and relies on being open. We might be better off with Peak handling the ball.

But he was open time and again, didn't shoot and UNSELFISHLY passed it to his mates vs. Charlotte et al.
Wait, is my sarcasm meter broken? Did I read you correctly?

Somewhat. I was saying that DSR needs to play his kind of game, which is looking for his shot, picking his spots. In his case, being selfish on the court is really not a bad trait. It allows him to focus and concentrate on just shooting. To his credit, DSR has become a solid defensive player. I am not sure he is best utilized at the point.

[michaelgrahmstylie]

Dec 22, 2014 16:08:51 GMT -5 rockhoya said:

Dec 22, 2014 14:32:12 GMT -5 prhoya said:

But he was open time and again, didn't shoot and UNSELFISHLY passed it to his mates vs. Charlotte et al.
Wait, is my sarcasm meter broken? Did I read you correctly?

POSITIVELY selfish, I think you missed a word

What word would you suggest?

[HoyasAreHungry]

I will be making the trip to MSG (or rather extending my NYC trip from Christmas ). Let's get this W Hoyas!

Need to control this game and not let IU get going offensively. Play good defense. Stay out of foul trouble. DSR time to shake off the rust.

[rockhoya]

Dec 23, 2014 1:03:26 GMT -5 michaelgrahmstylie said:

Dec 22, 2014 16:08:51 GMT -5 rockhoya said:

POSITIVELY selfish, I think you missed a word

What word would you suggest?

The same word. You're perceiving it as a slight but it's actually a good, rare quality that not many players have. That's where he's at his best. Being positively selfish and gunning while also being efficient.

[michaelgrahmstylie]

No, I wasn't taking it as a slight at all. I was just asking.

[beenaround]

Agree with everyone else. Big Big game. No excuses.Let's win this thing. Keys are definitely stopping the 3...Josh inside AND DSR HITTING some threes!

[mfk24]

This is the first JTIII team where I can honestly say, we are significantly better in transition than we are in the halfcourt, especially against the zone. I'd like to see us play some pressure defense and try to get some steals and easy buckets.

I know there is a lot of talk about which DSR shows up, the plus side is that Ferrell is maybe 6' so DSR has a definite size advantage and shouldn't have trouble getting his shot off. I actually think we have a size advantage all the way around. Looks like their staring 5 is 6', 6'4, 6'4, 6'7, 6'9 and we're 6'4, 6'5, 6'5, 6'8, 6'10 with the possibility to get bigger is White, Copeland, or Cameron play the 3. Looking for one of those guys to step up big in that soft spot at the foul line of the zone or hit some big shots from 3.

[vv83]

It is interesting that we are not using the trapping zone 3/4 press at all this year, other than for a few possessions. We used it quite frequently last year, for stretches of almost every game. The freshmen seem perfectly suited to play this kind of D, throw in bowen and Trawick - seems like we have the right personnel. My guess is that JTIII is not confident of josh's ability to play the back of this kind of press very well, including setting him up to collect more fouls. But we played this D quite a bit with Josh before his academic suspension. So who knows what the reasoning is.

We also are playing 2-3 zone almost exclusively in baseline inbounds situations - and playing it pretty poorly even in those limited possessions. Again, I think Josh is the problem here - he does not move well enough to get up to cover the foul line spot in the lane, and I think Thompson is concerned that we'll just get diced up with Josh and a group of inexperienced freshmen defenders in the zone. Perhaps he thinks we are best served to devote as much practice time as possible to our various man to man defenses and get as good as possible at them, rather than splitting practice time between man and zone defense.

[nychoya3]

The danger with zone is as you said it could result in cheap fouls for Josh and rebounding could be a problem. That said we're rebounding a lot better of late, and it could be a good look. Even if we play it with Josh on the bench, I'd be interested to see how some of our longer athletic lineups would do, like DSR, Bowen, White, Cope, Mikael.

[calhoya]

Dec 23, 2014 11:15:11 GMT -5 vv83 said:

It is interesting that we are not using the trapping zone 3/4 press at all this year, other than for a few possessions. We used it quite frequently last year, for stretches of almost every game. The freshmen seem perfectly suited to play this kind of D, throw in bowen and Trawick - seems like we have the right personnel. My guess is that JTIII is not confident of josh's ability to play the back of this kind of press very well, including setting him up to collect more fouls. But we played this D quite a bit with Josh before his academic suspension. So who knows what the reasoning is.

We also are playing 2-3 zone almost exclusively in baseline inbounds situations - and playing it pretty poorly even in those limited possessions. Again, I think Josh is the problem here - he does not move well enough to get up to cover the foul line spot in the lane, and I think Thompson is concerned that we'll just get diced up with Josh and a group of inexperienced freshmen defenders in the zone. Perhaps he thinks we are best served to devote as much practice time as possible to our various man to man defenses and get as good as possible at them, rather than splitting practice time between man and zone defense.

I agree with all of this. Also question why there is almost no 3/4 press this year --at least when Hopkins is in the 5 and Smith on the bench. The coaches almost have to gameplan on the assumption that we are going to have foul trouble at the 5 position in every game. Partly this is due to Smith's conditioning and partly it is the "big man" factor that has been discussed and constantly works agains Smith when games are called tightly. Smith is greatly improved on defense but remains a liability the longer he plays and the more he tires. Hopkins also still commits a couple of effort fouls every game when trying to contest everything. For that reason, I would plan to use Hopkins more at the 5 than the 4 and give Copeland a longer run at the 4 in the Indiana game. Copeland has been much more active in the past few games and seems to finding his comfortzone. Additionally, interior size is not as critical against Indiana this year and we can even flip White or Bowen inside for periods of time and go small, if necessary. I believe that it is worth considering at least soft pressure on the ball to delay the Hoosiers 8-10 seconds before they can get into their offense. Much easier for Smith and others to defend against the Indiana offense for shorter periods of time. Expect to see ball movement by Indiana and use of high screens to open up their outside shooters and some pick and roll. The PG loves to drive into the lane and kick it out (61 assists already this year). Smith will have to avoid the cheap fouls when he does this and others will have to stay with their men and not coverge on the PG in the lane. Hoping for the best but not feeling good about this game right now. DSR regaining his shooting touch would change everything.  

[SFHoya99]

Dec 23, 2014 11:15:11 GMT -5 vv83 said:

It is interesting that we are not using the trapping zone 3/4 press at all this year, other than for a few possessions. We used it quite frequently last year, for stretches of almost every game. The freshmen seem perfectly suited to play this kind of D, throw in bowen and Trawick - seems like we have the right personnel. My guess is that JTIII is not confident of josh's ability to play the back of this kind of press very well, including setting him up to collect more fouls. But we played this D quite a bit with Josh before his academic suspension. So who knows what the reasoning is.

We also are playing 2-3 zone almost exclusively in baseline inbounds situations - and playing it pretty poorly even in those limited possessions. Again, I think Josh is the problem here - he does not move well enough to get up to cover the foul line spot in the lane, and I think Thompson is concerned that we'll just get diced up with Josh and a group of inexperienced freshmen defenders in the zone. Perhaps he thinks we are best served to devote as much practice time as possible to our various man to man defenses and get as good as possible at them, rather than splitting practice time between man and zone defense.

I think it is pretty clear that with four freshmen in the rotation, it takes a while for players to understand where they need to be on defense and where everyone is. The frosh are playing big minutes and the getting lost in man is fairly indicative of simply not yet having enough reps to understand where everyone is on the floor and when they need to help and not.

I simply think the limiting factor on defense has been time. We started with offense and half-court man. We haven't played nearly as much zone, and I think that's because we haven't had time to practice zone. When we have run a 3/4 court press, it's gotten absolutely destroyed -- Charlotte gleefully ripped it apart and dunked on us. While I agree that some of our team is well suited to it, a poorly executed press is an epic debacle, and I suspect that we simply haven't had the time to practice it enough to execute it well.

The coaches get 12 hours a week before the season and about 8 hours during the season to supervise practice for everything from footwork to form to half court offense to zone defense. I just imagine pressing is pretty far down that list. And I think it probably should be.

I don't think this is a player issue -- and certainly not Josh who has actually been pretty good on defense this year -- but rather simply a "the team hasn't played that much together issue."

[OldHoyafan]

Josh's foul problems, as many have said, is mostly due to the "big man" bias most referees have. That being said Josh also collects a lot of reach in fouls. He has quick and soft hands on offense that alows him to catch wayward or hard passes and pt them gently in the basket. He tries to use that quickness of hands on defense and gets called for a reaching foul a lot. I noticed when he had gotten his fifth foul in the last game he played great defense with his feet and kept Charlotte's big man in front of him without reaching, so I know he can do it without reaching. III needs to make him wear oversized oven mittens in practice on defense to emphasize the non-use of hands on defense.

[SFHoya99]

Fun Facts while people are picking on Josh for no viable reason:

* Hopkins' foul rate is right up there with Smith. Why is Smith's supposed immobility an issue and not whatever Hopkins is doing also an issue? So why does a press work better with Hopkins in regards to foul trouble?

* When Smith left the team last year, the team got significantly worse on defense. Not better. I know last year he looked awful at times, but it didn't affect us as much as people thought. And this year, he's looked much better, and the team's been just fine with him on the court, so I'm searching for ANY evidence that Josh is the cause of all this bad D.

[kchoya]

Dec 22, 2014 19:57:05 GMT -5 hoyalove4ever said:

STOCK UP ON DIET COKE.

Uh oh. Widespread flu in Indiana:

CDC Map

[blueandgray]

As much as everyone is talking about DSR stepping up and having a big game....I think it's going to be Josh who leads us to the win. From the admittedly little I've seen of Indiana, I don't think there is anyone who can handle him. If we can get him the ball and limit turnovers in the process, we win.

[calhoya]

Dec 23, 2014 12:30:14 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Fun Facts while people are picking on Josh for no viable reason:

* Hopkins' foul rate is right up there with Smith. Why is Smith's supposed immobility an issue and not whatever Hopkins is doing also an issue? So why does a press work better with Hopkins in regards to foul trouble?

* When Smith left the team last year, the team got significantly worse on defense. Not better. I know last year he looked awful at times, but it didn't affect us as much as people thought. And this year, he's looked much better, and the team's been just fine with him on the court, so I'm searching for ANY evidence that Josh is the cause of all this bad D.

Not blaming Josh for all bad defense by any means. Smith and Hopkins are both issues on defense but for very different reasons. Smith is truly not mobile, but have already acknowledged that he is much improved over last year. Hopkins fouls by being overly aggressive and frankly not showing some restraint when he cannot possibly make a clean play. Josh was bad on defense last year and to the extent the team was worse without it him it is simply a reflection of the lack of talent on that team. Trawick was missing for a stretch after Josh left. Lubick was often forced to play out of his natural 4 position. Moses played much more than he would have. Cameron was not college ready with respect to quickness and DSR was not in as good a shape as this year. None of that changes the fact that Smith was clearly a defensive liability last year. This year is better for sure but my comment is that the longer he plays without a break, the less effective he is on defense and the more he becomes a liability. Against Charlotte watch the game and see the difference between Josh at the 1-2 minute mark and Josh after playing 5-6 minutes ( talking game clock, not real time). He simply needs a rest and for that reason Hopkins needs to save some of his time for the 5. We have an option for Hopkins at the 4 but other than Hopkins there is no alternative for Smith at the 5.