rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 15, 2014 16:24:52 GMT -5
I think you're missing the point. There are no alternatives to Hop, he is the only rim protector, the best post defender, and the only person other than DSR that has proven to rebound outside of his area. You bench Hop for a much less mature frosh at this point and we get eaten up by most front courts and Josh fouls out of many games trying to overcompensate. I get what you're trying to say, in an ideal world our more talented players would be able to step in right away but unfortunately that is not the case. None of the freshman front court players are physical enough to play in the post at this point, and they don't seem to be mentally tough enough yet, that's just the reality. Bashing Hop in hopes that it accelerates the growth of the freshman to the point that they might be at at the end of the year is just silly..... You're missing the point Rock.. Alternative doesn't equal fully replacing.. Nobody is calling for Hop to get benched in anyway.. Ike more than likely won't be a better rebounder/defender than Hop this season but it's possible he can close that gap while at the same time making the gap much bigger than it already is on the offensive side of the ball. If he were to do that, it would mean a higher ceiling for the team this season.. This thread was started to discuss what we think should/could/will happen to make this a dangerous squad.. Do you really think the team can reach it's potential if Ike doesn't develop? Yeah it can certainly still be very good if Ike doesn't develop. He's our third best freshman and probably our 6th or 7th most important players at best. Just like people can't envision Hop making an offensive leap significant enough this year, it's similarly questionable whether Ike can make the leap defensively. And that's taking into account that it's much easier for Hop to improve mental deficiencies than Ike somehow putting 20 pound of strength on overnight. If the discussion is following the logic I think it is, the fact that Hop is already our 3rd most important player playing so badly on offense you would think it would make more sense to discuss how he can get better on the offensive end. That total package would, in theory, be much more valuable than a freshman who still lacks crucial experience and prudence. Nobody is denying the freshman's potential, rather just trying to say that you don't need to downplay Hop's contributions just to levate the potential of the freshman. Hop is one of our more important players right now, and until the frosh prove that they are able to better supplant him they will continue to play the amount of minutes they already have.....which is a lot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 16:25:22 GMT -5
Which line-ups do you like best or better yet which has the most potential as a crunch time play.. Josh, Hop, Peak, Jabril & DSR Josh, White, Peak, Jabril & DSR Hop, Copeland, White, Peak &, DSR Josh, Copeland, White, Peak &DSR Josh, Hop, White, Peak DSR Personally gimme #4 .. I just think the ceiling for the team is higher if Ike can eat into some of Hopkins time.. I think I agree with you. What I like about that lineup is that if a play breaks down, they're the most likely to make something out of nothing which is crucial in tight games. But that said, having Hopkins out there makes me a little less nervous at just running the offense. He seems to be the best at finding cutters right now. With the #4 lineup, I think you'd find DSR pressing too hard and that is when he's at his worst offensively. One thing I've noticed about the freshmen, is that they're still getting used to each other on the court in terms of spacing. Simple passes seem to be off because they still don't really know where the other one is supposed to be. Honestly, its just refreshing to be having a sane conversation about lineups this season.And to actually have players worthy of those minutes.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 15, 2014 16:49:26 GMT -5
Honestly, If I have to choose, I'd choose Mikael but neither are outstanding and that's the point I'm trying to make.. I get that Ike isn't ready today to take many of Hopkins minutes but my hope is he will get/be ready before too long.. Again Hopkins will still see a lot of time on the court.. Dungeon Ball made the comment that Hop is trending toward being the teams best passer, it has to be noted that most of these assists are coming when he's at the 5 and the lane is clear.. Which line-ups do you like best or better yet which has the most potential as a crunch time play.. Josh, Hop, Peak, Jabril & DSR Josh, White, Peak, Jabril & DSR Hop, Copeland, White, Peak &, DSR Josh, Copeland, White, Peak &DSR Josh, Hop, White, Peak DSR Personally gimme #4 .. I just think the ceiling for the team is higher if Ike can eat into some of Hopkins time.. On offense yes but It really depends on what has happened in the game up to that point. You can’t coach the game in a vacuum so I’m not really looking at it like that. 3 doesn’t usually have Hopkins in on offensive sets late though it’s usually been option #2 The ceiling for this team is highest if Ike and Mike both play up to their full potential and fill their roles. As a coach you have many ways you can make that work, go offense defense late etc.. You're right I shouldn't have said crunch time because that would depend on the game situation.. I think Hopkins has reached his potential though, don't you? This is the best I've seen him play..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 17:27:58 GMT -5
On offense yes but It really depends on what has happened in the game up to that point. You can’t coach the game in a vacuum so I’m not really looking at it like that. 3 doesn’t usually have Hopkins in on offensive sets late though it’s usually been option #2 The ceiling for this team is highest if Ike and Mike both play up to their full potential and fill their roles. As a coach you have many ways you can make that work, go offense defense late etc.. You're right I shouldn't have said crunch time because that would depend on the game situation.. I think Hopkins has reached his potential though, don't you? This is the best I've seen him play.. Nah I wouldn’t say that, you really never know with Bigs and there definitely some areas of his game he could tighten up..lol Personally I think they all compliment each other. Mike is strong in the areas the young guys are weak in and vice Versa all have the ability to make the game easier for the other. I think it’s best if they continue to work on their deficiencies but focus on their strengths.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 15, 2014 17:51:10 GMT -5
Even if Smith's offensive rebounds are often his own misses, I would actually argue there's a huge value to that because there is a very high percentage that those offensive rebounds turn into 2 points, whereas the average Hopkins offensive rebound would surely turn into fewer points.
To some degree, I do think rebounding is part circumstance. 2 seasons ago when Otto Porter was a great rebounder, Hopkins' rebounding wasn't that great. Part of the reason his numbers improved last year was because Porter wasn't there anymore. If Hopkins wasn't there, somebody would grab many of the same rebounds. Is Hopkins better at it than White or Copeland right now? Probably, and he adds value in doing so.
BTW, for what it is worth, Hopkins' turnover rate this year is much higher than it ever was historically. Right now it is 31.9, last year it was 22.6, and the year before it was 26.5. Thus, I think it's actually very reasonable to expect Hopkins to improve in that area. Granted, his shooting is significantly worse this year - but at least he's taking fewer shots.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 15, 2014 19:24:23 GMT -5
Even if Smith's offensive rebounds are often his own misses, I would actually argue there's a huge value to that because there is a very high percentage that those offensive rebounds turn into 2 points, whereas the average Hopkins offensive rebound would surely turn into fewer points. To some degree, I do think rebounding is part circumstance. 2 seasons ago when Otto Porter was a great rebounder, Hopkins' rebounding wasn't that great. Part of the reason his numbers improved last year was because Porter wasn't there anymore. If Hopkins wasn't there, somebody would grab many of the same rebounds. Is Hopkins better at it than White or Copeland right now? Probably, and he adds value in doing so. BTW, for what it is worth, Hopkins' turnover rate this year is much higher than it ever was historically. Right now it is 31.9, last year it was 22.6, and the year before it was 26.5. Thus, I think it's actually very reasonable to expect Hopkins to improve in that area. Granted, his shooting is significantly worse this year - but at least he's taking fewer shots. I agree, and part of that his his lower usage rate (I'm assuming).
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b52legend
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Post by b52legend on Dec 17, 2014 13:42:10 GMT -5
I agree with the sentiment that this team has the opportunity to be VERY good by years end. Honestly, at this point I expect us to win the Big East. I think we will be a better team than Nova. A few thoughts - I'm willing to give Hopkins more run than most on here seem to be. He has had some bad games, but he is shooting very well this year (aside from FTs). Just needs to clean up the TOs. Part of his problem is that he has spent three years being one of the only guys on the team who could create anything in an otherwise stagnant offense -- that is not the case this year and he needs to adjust. - Paul White might be the most complete player on the team right now. If he (and Copeland) get really comfortable operating at the high post, our offense will take the next step -- especially with Smith down low. We have not had a versatile SF/PF and dominant big man combo since JG and Roy. It's actually the other way around on Hopkins. He's shooting FTs very well -- 73.7%. He's 37.5% from the field. Sorry, I meant Trawick, not Hopkins.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 17, 2014 15:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by jctnhoya4ever on Dec 17, 2014 18:36:24 GMT -5
i have said this team lacks defence intensity,they give up 3-4 big threes against kansas . that cost hoyas the win that game,getting over to the 3 point line a second late killed them. and getting back on transistion d is bad to.until that changes we will loose games that hoyas should be winning. in the big east,the hoyas should be at least 13-5 or 14-4,but i do not think they will simply because there defence. if they do not start guarding the 3 better they will under achieve. i hope i am wrong but seeing a trend game after game,not getting back in transistion and not getting to the 3 point shooters. this team will be around 11-7 to 10-8 in conference i think because there defence. should be way better. i hope they prove me wrong. go hoyas!!!!!!!!!
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 17, 2014 19:05:16 GMT -5
While the perimeter rotations seem a bit off right now, that's something that improves over the course of a season in many cases.
Also, worth noting:
3PT FG% Against: 30.55%, 77th best in D-I of 360+ % of Initial FGA in Transition: 18%, 13th best in DI
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 18, 2014 8:41:46 GMT -5
While the perimeter rotations seem a bit off right now, that's something that improves over the course of a season in many cases. Also, worth noting: 3PT FG% Against: 30.55%, 77th best in D-I of 360+ % of Initial FGA in Transition: 18%, 13th best in DI Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Dec 18, 2014 13:15:56 GMT -5
And would an 11-7 record in the Big East really be a bad result? I hope for better, but 11-7 is exactly where Pomeroy thinks the 21st best team in the nation will finish against our conference schedule.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Dec 18, 2014 15:06:33 GMT -5
Assuming we can take care of Charlotte and Indiana, an 11-7 Big East record would get us to 19 wins and seemingly in very solid position for an NCAA invitation without much concern, especially with the Big East performance out-of-conference thus far.
Anything less than 11-7, and BE tournament performance, other bubble team performances, and schedule analytics will likely come into play.
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Post by burnell on Dec 18, 2014 18:09:24 GMT -5
The team will be better with more playing for the frehmens and less time for Hopkins,im tired of excuses why bowen isn't getting more playing time for the minutes he plays he's one of the most productive players we have.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 18, 2014 18:34:00 GMT -5
The team will be better with more playing for the frehmens and less time for Hopkins,im tired of excuses why bowen isn't getting more playing time for the minutes he plays he's one of the most productive players we have. I am simply amazed at how underappreciated Hopkins is. He's our best rebounder, best interior defender, best shot blocker, and best passer from the high post leading to easy back door buckets. I have a feeling we aren't going to appreciate these things until we don't have them next year.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 18, 2014 20:45:49 GMT -5
The team will be better with more playing for the frehmens and less time for Hopkins,im tired of excuses why bowen isn't getting more playing time for the minutes he plays he's one of the most productive players we have. I am simply amazed at how underappreciated Hopkins is. He's our best rebounder, best interior defender, best shot blocker, and best passer from the high post leading to easy back door buckets. I have a feeling we aren't going to appreciate these things until we don't have them next year. The only thing I would dismiss is "best passer from the high post." Big whoop. III always has a big man play that part every year. Problem is that those who do, including Hopkins this season, are typically useless the majority of the time they are in the high post. Only when a backdoor opportunity arises do they help the team being out that far from the basket. When no such backdoor opportunity comes about though they are pretty much useless out on top as they hold onto the ball and wait for a teammate to cut.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Dec 19, 2014 12:40:02 GMT -5
This year, Hopkins has generally helped more than he has hurt, plus he has the ability to play C when Josh Smith is in foul trouble or needs a rest. He needs to play a lot this year, and we need to embrace it. We have not adequately developed any other PF/C to take his minutes. Copeland and White are more like 3s than 4s and lack the beef and brawn needed from Hopkins down low.
If JTIII can keep working to limit Mikael's usage on offense, Hopkins will be an excellent role player for us, primarily because he's developed into a plus defender and capable rebounder.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 19, 2014 14:01:30 GMT -5
Hopkins, Bowen and Trawick are great examples of what four year guys should be. Hop and Trawick got a lot of minutes early in their careers because of circumstances so it is understandable that they have stuck with the program and worked on their strengths. Bowen is the one I really admire in this group because he stuck with it when he easily could have transferred after either his sophomore year or redshirt sophomore year. In this day and age of transfers, it is great to see these guys stick with it and they will all be part of the solution to get this team past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 19, 2014 14:46:17 GMT -5
This year, Hopkins has generally helped more than he has hurt, plus he has the ability to play C when Josh Smith is in foul trouble or needs a rest. He needs to play a lot this year, and we need to embrace it. We have not adequately developed any other PF/C to take his minutes. Copeland and White are more like 3s than 4s and lack the beef and brawn needed from Hopkins down low. If JTIII can keep working to limit Mikael's usage on offense, Hopkins will be an excellent role player for us, primarily because he's developed into a plus defender and capable rebounder. Mostly agree. BTW, I'm counting on the Zoubek Month for Hops in March '15. Here's a little bit on former Dukie C B. Zoubek, a 7'1" 260 pound h.s. Jordan All-American and #33 RSCI turned cream puff shop owner who went undrafted (yet no one blames Coach K): deadspin.com/5986268/former-duke-center-brian-zoubek-closes-his-cream-puff-shop-with-a-sad-note
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Dec 19, 2014 14:49:28 GMT -5
Nice find, prhoya.
Zoubek and cream puffs. How ironic and redundant.
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