This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 1, 2014 13:51:29 GMT -5
Is Now The Time To Consider Changing The Starting Lineup?
After facing 3-Division 1 level teams and going 1-2, is now the time to consider tweaking the starting lineup?
Obviously the players in question would be Hopper, Trawick, and Peak.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 1, 2014 13:57:56 GMT -5
Is Now The Time To Consider Changing The Starting Lineup?After facing 3-Division 1 level teams and going 1-2, is now the time to consider tweaking the starting lineup? Obviously the players in question would be Hopper, Trawick, and Peak. Maybe, but not because of the reason you listed
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 1, 2014 14:34:41 GMT -5
A good coach, and JT III is clearly one, should always be considering tweaking his lineup.
That said, who starts is never as important as who finishes.
I remember 1982 when everyone wanted Michael Hancock pulled from the starting 5 except for the only one whose opinion mattered. Michael started, rarely finished, and the team was within a bad pass of a title.
People get way too wrapped up in starting lineups. Everyone in the mix to start will get major minutes so the rest is kind of a parlor game at best.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 1, 2014 15:15:17 GMT -5
A good coach, and JT III is clearly one, should always be considering tweaking his lineup. That said, who starts is never as important as who finishes. I remember 1982 when everyone wanted Michael Hancock pulled from the starting 5 except for the only one whose opinion mattered. Michael started, rarely finished, and the team was within a bad pass of a title. People get way too wrapped up in starting lineups. Everyone in the mix to start will get major minutes so the rest is kind of a parlor game at best. Correct. In fact with a mix of upperclassmen and youth like we have this year, changes in the starting line-up can cause frictions that outweigh the potential benefits, unless the timing is handled properly. We are absolutely not at that point. The starters for the second half are more interesting. Obviously coach has shown he will play the hot hands. That is how you best use your personnel.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 1, 2014 15:33:12 GMT -5
I say no. It really doesn't matter who starts. I just don't want to see us not giving everyone an oportunity to prove themselves.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 1, 2014 15:47:34 GMT -5
A good coach, and JT III is clearly one, should always be considering tweaking his lineup. That said, who starts is never as important as who finishes. I remember 1982 when everyone wanted Michael Hancock pulled from the starting 5 except for the only one whose opinion mattered. Michael started, rarely finished, and the team was within a bad pass of a title. People get way too wrapped up in starting lineups. Everyone in the mix to start will get major minutes so the rest is kind of a parlor game at best. Correct. In fact with a mix of upperclassmen and youth like we have this year, changes in the starting line-up can cause frictions that outweigh the potential benefits, unless the timing is handled properly. We are absolutely not at that point. The starters for the second half are more interesting. Obviously coach has shown he will play the hot hands. That is how you best use your personnel. Well said everyone. Right now the key should be to continue to identify options and combinations that work. For instance always try to have at least 2 credible outside threats and 1 credible inside threat in the lineup. Absent some combination of inside/outside game, the Hoyas will struggle to run their offense.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Dec 1, 2014 17:09:25 GMT -5
I too reject the premise that "who starts" is of any great importance, but I do wonder whether it makes sense to continue using Hopkins and Smith together for any substantial length of time. Hopkins is clearly Smith's back-up at the 5, yet he is so foul prone that he cannot be depended on to be available when Smith should be on the bench (whether for fouls, fatigue, or defensive purposes). I know Copeland and White are not classic 4's and probably do not see themselves in that role, but they are going to end up spending a lot of time as the second tallest player on the court, and might benefit from understanding what that means defensively from the outset. On offense, I expect to see mostly 4-out, 1-in sets or possibly stationing White/Copeland in the middle of a zone or else running the baseline to occasionally take a hi-lo feed but otherwise drawing defense to the corners. Very few opponents will have two real post players to necessitate Hopkins and Smith for defense, and the offense likely is much better off with more Copeland and White.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 1, 2014 17:22:59 GMT -5
I too reject the premise that "who starts" is of any great importance, but I do wonder whether it makes sense to continue using Hopkins and Smith together for any substantial length of time. Hopkins is clearly Smith's back-up at the 5, yet he is so foul prone that he cannot be depended on to be available when Smith should be on the bench (whether for fouls, fatigue, or defensive purposes). I know Copeland and White are not classic 4's and probably do not see themselves in that role, but they are going to end up spending a lot of time as the second tallest player on the court, and might benefit from understanding what that means defensively from the outset. On offense, I expect to see mostly 4-out, 1-in sets or possibly stationing White/Copeland in the middle of a zone or else running the baseline to occasionally take a hi-lo feed but otherwise drawing defense to the corners. Very few opponents will have two real post players to necessitate Hopkins and Smith for defense, and the offense likely is much better off with more Copeland and White. I have to disagree. Josh and Hops represent a very tough duo to deal with on the inside, whether you are talking offensively or defensively. My problem with Josh and Hops are the silly fouls and clumsy handle on the ball sometimes. The word on Josh seems to be double-team, collapse on him, and swipe at the ball as soon as he comes down with it. In my opinion, all Josh needs to do is stand his ground and let any who would dare come inside all but bounce off him. We also need to feed him the ball more often and let him get use to scrapping and clawing for everything he gets. I even saw a short jump hook from him during the tournament. He really does have a soft touch and good footwork. now he needs to develop that pump-fake, delay, and look to pass to someone like Peak or Jabril who is cutting hard to the basket. Hops had some great defensive plays; now he needs to look to become more of an offensive threat. Having both of them in the game at the same time can really clog up the middle--of course the operative wor is "can".
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 1, 2014 17:45:58 GMT -5
I would assume the lineup at the start of the year had to do with who had grasped the defense more than who had grasped the offense. White and Copeland looked a little lost at times on the defensive end, however in the last three games both seem to be comfortable in their man-to-man and the zone defenses. Rebounding however, especially the art of boxing out is still a work in progress by both White and Copeland. Once they understand that the art of rebounding has to do with a "want to" attitude more so than physical ability, they will be ok. That being said the starting lineup against Wisconsin had Trawick trying to guard a 6'8" forward man-to-man. He quickly picked up two fouls trying to prevent him from posting up. I know III wants the other team to have to adjust to the HOYAS instead of the other way around, I would have thought a bigger team to start, i.e, White on the 6'8" forward since you were playing the number two team in the country with great size. The HOYAS did not run much either because they could not get a lot of rebounds. A result of Wisconsin players tipping ball back out, going over the smaller Hoyas. For Towson the lineup should stay the same, however Kansas should cause some thought about White starting at small forward, if HOYAS are not going to run early in the game.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 1, 2014 18:27:39 GMT -5
Generally, isn't it always time to be evaluating lineups? I agree with the posters that mentioned comfort level on the defensive side of things but, to be fair, LJ has been really streaky on the defensive side of things too. Once the guys are all fairly comfortable, JT3 will have a bit of a luxury that he hasn't had which is to play more matchups both on the offensive and defensive side of things. I wouldn't be shocked to see a less static starting lineup than in years past.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 1, 2014 19:25:12 GMT -5
I too reject the premise that "who starts" is of any great importance, but I do wonder whether it makes sense to continue using Hopkins and Smith together for any substantial length of time. Hopkins is clearly Smith's back-up at the 5, yet he is so foul prone that he cannot be depended on to be available when Smith should be on the bench (whether for fouls, fatigue, or defensive purposes). I know Copeland and White are not classic 4's and probably do not see themselves in that role, but they are going to end up spending a lot of time as the second tallest player on the court, and might benefit from understanding what that means defensively from the outset. On offense, I expect to see mostly 4-out, 1-in sets or possibly stationing White/Copeland in the middle of a zone or else running the baseline to occasionally take a hi-lo feed but otherwise drawing defense to the corners. Very few opponents will have two real post players to necessitate Hopkins and Smith for defense, and the offense likely is much better off with more Copeland and White. While I think Hop and Josh help feed each other on the offensive boards, most basketball coaches these days pair a center who plays inside with a stretch four, like say, Isaac Copeland. It opens up the interior and exterior.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 1, 2014 19:52:03 GMT -5
I too reject the premise that "who starts" is of any great importance, but I do wonder whether it makes sense to continue using Hopkins and Smith together for any substantial length of time. Hopkins is clearly Smith's back-up at the 5, yet he is so foul prone that he cannot be depended on to be available when Smith should be on the bench (whether for fouls, fatigue, or defensive purposes). I know Copeland and White are not classic 4's and probably do not see themselves in that role, but they are going to end up spending a lot of time as the second tallest player on the court, and might benefit from understanding what that means defensively from the outset. On offense, I expect to see mostly 4-out, 1-in sets or possibly stationing White/Copeland in the middle of a zone or else running the baseline to occasionally take a hi-lo feed but otherwise drawing defense to the corners. Very few opponents will have two real post players to necessitate Hopkins and Smith for defense, and the offense likely is much better off with more Copeland and White. While I think Hop and Josh help feed each other on the offensive boards, most basketball coaches these days pair a center who plays inside with a stretch four, like say, Isaac Copeland. It opens up the interior and exterior. To SF's point, if anyone has the chance go back and look at the sequence that led to Copeland's 1st 3.. The Woods kid never left the paint to cover Copeland during this possession.. When White makes a cut thru the lane after passing the ball to Bowen, Woods jumped into White's cutting lane leaving Copeland WIDE open at the top the key.. That play couldn't happen with Josh & Hop on the court together.. Teams know that Hopkins can't hit the outside shot so his man can always clog the lane which slows down the teams sets and tends to hurt Smith's production as well.. If Copeland can show any type of consistency with his jumper, opposing teams will have to devise a new strategy on how to defend the Hoyas..
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Dec 2, 2014 9:50:47 GMT -5
Yep. Spacing on offense is bound to improve, offensive rebounding may suffer a bit, but the offense just has to be better by going slightly smaller, and also allows for better defensive flexibility by using Hopkins when he can be most effective while giving Smith rest when needed.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 1, 2015 2:00:16 GMT -5
Tonight was the Hoyas 3rd tough game in a row.
The team beat Charlotte and Indiana in back to back games decided by 4pts or less.
Tonight was the 2nd game in a row where the offense was erractic at best in the 1st half and unlike the Indiana game, the offense never found its rhythm.
After seeing the team play more and how opponents may try to play defense against the Hoyas, is it time to the tweak the starting lineup of DSR, Trawick, Peak, Smith, and Hopper?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 1, 2015 8:19:04 GMT -5
Not sure what changes could be made. The other freshmen have not shown any consistency, and have been pretty weak on the defensive end. Bowen has his moments, but regressed in the 2nd half last night to wild drives, and losing his man repeatedly on D. For all of Hop's maddening offensive bungling, we desperately need his defense. I would love to see guys step up and earn a starting spot, but seems like the bench still has a long way to go.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 1, 2015 12:05:36 GMT -5
No. It's time to execute better against tough defense.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 1, 2015 12:11:17 GMT -5
Or it's time to play like we actually want to win.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 10, 2015 23:32:03 GMT -5
Bump! The following has to do with several in-game and post-game discussions, but I'll post it here to get back to this thread's question. First, for the record, our starters to date are Josh (@5), Hops (@4), LJ and Jabril (@2&3), and DSR (@1), and that has not changed since the start of the season. Also, let me add that I'm in the group that thinks being a starter is not important when compared to starter-like minutes per game. That said, today's game and how we started got me thinking if that is true. How are we starting? Is the starting lineup putting us ahead or are we playing catch up after the first official time-out? And, finally, if we are playing catch up, shouldn't the starting lineup be "tweaked"? To consider these questions, using the following play-by-play summaries of our 4 BE games so far, please look at the start of each game, specifically from the start to the first official time-out: @ XU: espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400588398 (first official time-out at 15:49) Crei: espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400588402 (first official time-out at 15:49) Marq: espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400588404 (first official time-out at 14:47) @ PC: espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400588409 (first official time-out at 15:49) In summary, in none of the games are we leading: XU 7, GU 2 CU 5, GU 2 MU 8, GU 8 PC 7, GU 2 What's going on with our starting lineup? MH: 0 made FG, 1 missed layup, 2 missed jumpers, 2 off rb, 3 TOs, 1 blk, 2 PF JS: 2 made layup, 1 missed layup, 2 missed jumpers, 1 made FT, 1 TO, 4 steals, 1 assist, 2 def rb, 1 PF DSR: 1 made 3-pt, 1 missed 3-pt, 2 missed jumpers, 2 blks, 3 def rb, 1 off rb, 1 assist, 1 TO, 1 steal, 1 PF JT: 1 made 3-pt, 3 missed 3-pt, 1 missed jumper, 1 off rb, 1 TO, 1 PF LJ: 2 made jumpers, 2 missed 3-pt, 1 missed layup, 2 assists, 2 TOs Facts: 1. We're are starting very slow, to say the least. 2. So far, we've had to play catch up after the first official time-out. 3. Of our starters, Hopkins is the least productive with 0 points. In fact, he's a negative in offense with 3 missed FGs and 3 TOs. 4. Each of our starters has TO at least once, with Hopkins at 3 TOs. 5. DSR has only 4 shots total in those four games. Conclusions: 1. Tweak the starting lineup. It cannot get worse. 2. Offensively, Hops is hurting us at the 4. The notion that he somehow is not productive offensively because he is not played in his "natural" 4 position is debunked. He clearly is not a productive offensive 4. Play him only as a backup 5. He will get plenty of minutes there and we need him to be available (not in foul trouble). 3. We are not doing a good job of protecting the ball at the beginning of games. We need to value/protect the ball better than we have so far. 4. Josh should fight for position closer to the basket and his teammates need to feed him once there so that he does not have to shoot short jumpers. If he's not close to the basket, he should consider passing out and repositioning. 4. Josh's numbers are very good. He needs to be careful with fouls because he's too important. The 4 steals are tremendous, but be careful not to foul. 5. DSR needs to shoot more before the first official time-out. If he cannot create the shots, then JT3 needs to design plays for him and he needs to shoot when open.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 11, 2015 0:38:03 GMT -5
I too reject the premise that "who starts" is of any great importance, but I do wonder whether it makes sense to continue using Hopkins and Smith together for any substantial length of time. Hopkins is clearly Smith's back-up at the 5, yet he is so foul prone that he cannot be depended on to be available when Smith should be on the bench (whether for fouls, fatigue, or defensive purposes). I know Copeland and White are not classic 4's and probably do not see themselves in that role, but they are going to end up spending a lot of time as the second tallest player on the court, and might benefit from understanding what that means defensively from the outset. On offense, I expect to see mostly 4-out, 1-in sets or possibly stationing White/Copeland in the middle of a zone or else running the baseline to occasionally take a hi-lo feed but otherwise drawing defense to the corners. Very few opponents will have two real post players to necessitate Hopkins and Smith for defense, and the offense likely is much better off with more Copeland and White. I have to disagree. Josh and Hops represent a very tough duo to deal with on the inside, whether you are talking offensively or defensively. My problem with Josh and Hops are the silly fouls and clumsy handle on the ball sometimes. The word on Josh seems to be double-team, collapse on him, and swipe at the ball as soon as he comes down with it. In my opinion, all Josh needs to do is stand his ground and let any who would dare come inside all but bounce off him. We also need to feed him the ball more often and let him get use to scrapping and clawing for everything he gets. I even saw a short jump hook from him during the tournament. He really does have a soft touch and good footwork. now he needs to develop that pump-fake, delay, and look to pass to someone like Peak or Jabril who is cutting hard to the basket. Hops had some great defensive plays; now he needs to look to become more of an offensive threat. Having both of them in the game at the same time can really clog up the middle--of course the operative wor is "can". Do you still stand by the statement in bold?
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Post by paulioz7 on Jan 11, 2015 1:42:12 GMT -5
It not exactly who starts but most teams prefer to start the best players at the position. Some will leave a good shooter on the bench for instant offense. Good teams now rarely have two guys in the starting lineup that are offensively challenged. Hopkins and Trawick hurt the offense tremendously. Trawick is a little better because he can at least make an open layup and draw files. However his jump shot has not been there so overall having he and hopkins is very limiting.
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